[jonKranked]

in home ec, was there not instruction on various ways for food preparation?
in civics, are not different cultures revealed?
in health class, are not different methods for birth control taught, including abstinence?

separate, but not equal

actually being equal and being presented as equal are two different things.

 

[Pesqueeb]

in home ec, was there not instruction on various ways for food preparation?
in civics, are not different cultures revealed?
in health class, are not different methods for birth control taught, including abstinence?

separate, but not equal

No one ever tried to bomb Americas Test Kitchen because the made a Raspberry Tart differently than Julia Childs.

Culture /= science

 

[$tinkle]

No one ever tried to bomb Americas Test Kitchen because the made a Raspberry Tart differently than Julia Childs.

but it was close!
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/08/not_top_secret.html

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

in home ec, was there not instruction on various ways for food preparation?
in civics, are not different cultures revealed?
in health class, are not different methods for birth control taught, including abstinence?

separate, but not equal

This thread was an interesting read for sure. You are desperately clinging to an ideology that your rational mind is telling you is false. Fear and Faith dear $tinkle are not the same.

 

[dante]

I honestly don't understand why X-ians are so insecure in their beliefs that they're demanding that they be reinforced by government actions? If X-anity is so powerful that it can survive having it's believers eaten by lions, surely it can survive NOT being taught in public schools, or NOT having religious articles decorating government buildings?

Do X-ians really feel that their religion is so weak that children might stray if they only get 16 hours of indoctrination per day instead of the full 24?

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

I honestly don't understand why X-ians are so insecure in their beliefs that they're demanding that they be reinforced by government actions? If X-anity is so powerful that it can survive having it's believers eaten by lions, surely it can survive NOT being taught in public schools, or NOT having religious articles decorating government buildings?

Do X-ians really feel that their religion is so weak that children might stray if they only get 16 hours of indoctrination per day instead of the full 24?

Unfortunately the majority of them do not practice what they were taught or even read their book. Basically, if Christians followed the teachings of Jesus, they would be some seriously tolerant people. But we all know how this worked out.

Back in (Catholic prep) High School a priest held up a bible in religion class and proclaimed,"this nothing more than a collection of stories, written by man, intended as a guide for living". These universal truths are present in every major religion, even ones pre-dating Christianity. And that's all they are, a suggested way of getting along with your fellow man.

Most followers of these principles, wether they are Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, etc. simply don't beat their chest about their religion while regurgitating dogma. They just simply are your neighbor, friend, relative.

 

[binary visions]

in home ec, was there not instruction on various ways for food preparation?
in civics, are not different cultures revealed?
in health class, are not different methods for birth control taught, including abstinence?

separate, but not equal

This is a completely false analogy.

There is a difference between being taught two methods to the same end (e.g. preparing food differently, or choosing abstinence as a form of birth control), and being taught two conflicting ideas which directly undermine each other, only one is studied and presented with objective evidence, while the other is simply a story to be accepted on faith.

Nobody teaches students that there are dragons in the core of the earth breathing fire that results in volcanic eruptions, because it completely undermines the scientific teachings about earth science. You cannot present them side-by-side in a science class, because one is science and one is not.

 

[$tinkle]

Unfortunately the majority of them do not practice what they were taught or even read their book. Basically, if Christians followed the teachings of Jesus, they would be some seriously tolerant people.

this simply isn't true
jesus said, 'you are forgiven; go, & sin no more'

--not--

'live a lifestyle however you wish, and please pay no attention to the teachings of My Father when they are inconvenient to your whims'

the 'tolerant' message is incorrectly packaged as "do not judge, lest ye be judged -- full stop", and is a silly message on its face, irrespective of religious identity.

would anyone here care to tolerate child molesters, or worse yet, those who put forth a thinly-veiled creationist agenda in public schools?

 

[$tinkle]

This is a completely false analogy.

is not!

There is a difference between being taught two methods to the same end (e.g. preparing food differently, or choosing abstinence as a form of birth control), and being taught two conflicting ideas which directly undermine each other, only one is studied and presented with objective evidence, while the other is simply a story to be accepted on faith.

Nobody teaches students that there are dragons in the core of the earth breathing fire that results in volcanic eruptions, because it completely undermines the scientific teachings about earth science. You cannot present them side-by-side in a science class, because one is science and one is not.

creationism teaches 'God created', not 'God created the stove-piped system of double helixes exclusive to all others'

while it may not bring comfort to the faithful that we all dropped from trees, that's hardly a reason to prevent teaching what is plainly observable in the micro, and then use that to make a strong case for the macro. the other side of that drachma, is of course, the species problem.

it's all rather fascinating, but for me, not an article of faith

 

[Pesqueeb]

This is a completely false analogy.

There is a difference between being taught two methods to the same end (e.g. preparing food differently, or choosing abstinence as a form of birth control), and being taught two conflicting ideas which directly undermine each other, only one is studied and presented with objective evidence, while the other is simply a story to be accepted on faith.

Nobody teaches students that there are dragons in the core of the earth breathing fire that results in volcanic eruptions, because it completely undermines the scientific teachings about earth science. You cannot present them side-by-side in a science class, because one is science and one is not.

Commie.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

this simply isn't true
jesus said, 'you are forgiven; go, & sin no more'

--not--

"Sin no more" also meant "Love thy neighbor" and "do unto others as you would have done unto you".

'live a lifestyle however you wish, and please pay no attention to the teachings of My Father when they are inconvenient to your whims'

Standard fundamentalist practice without any real knowledge of the "teachings".

the 'tolerant' message is incorrectly packaged as "do not judge, lest ye be judged -- full stop", and is a silly message on its face, irrespective of religious identity.

Is it ? Or is it so simple that it's beyond your grasp ?

would anyone here care to tolerate child molesters, or worse yet, those who put forth a thinly-veiled creationist agenda in public schools?

That's a crap analogy and you know it.

 

[jonKranked]

 

[dante]

Unfortunately the majority of them do not practice what they were taught or even read their book. Basically, if Christians followed the teachings of Jesus, they would be some seriously tolerant people. But we all know how this worked out.

Lol, if I ever ran into a right-winger who *actually* followed the teachings of Christ, I think I'd have a heart attack. What was that Jesus said about taxes again? What was that parable about talents, and to whom much is given, much is expected? Or "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"? Or about taking the log out of your own eye before attempting to remove the spec from your neighbor's eye? Or the "what you have done for the least of these, you've done for me"?

I've yet to see a single Republican politician justify cutting welfare/food stamps/health care/housing/and so on based on Matthew 25:40...

If God does exist, there are going to be a lot of really, really, really surprised "Christians" who's names aren't in the book...

 

[binary visions]

creationism teaches 'God created', not 'God created the stove-piped system of double helixes exclusive to all others'

I'm not sure I follow your point. It doesn't matter specifically what it teaches.

Creationism is a purely faith-based description of something that is not possible to be objectively studied, measured or observed. Thus, it should not be taught in science class where the whole point is to learn that which has been studied, measured and observed.

while it may not bring comfort to the faithful that we all dropped from trees, that's hardly a reason to prevent teaching what is plainly observable in the micro, and then use that to make a strong case for the macro.

So... yes? I agree? I think?

 

[Pesqueeb]

 

[Beef Supreme]

 

[JohnE]

600+ mentions of helping the poor in the Bible. 1 regarding homosexuality, which dint even come from Jesus. Yet the right, which claims to be the Godly side of the political spectrum, focuses on teh ghey, and not helping the poor...judge not, right?

 

[dante]

600+ mentions of helping the poor in the Bible. 1 regarding homosexuality, which dint even come from Jesus. Yet the right, which claims to be the Godly side of the political spectrum, focuses on teh ghey, and not helping the poor...judge not, right?

Also don't forget that the *only* specific reference against homosexuality only pertains to men, *not* lesbians...

 

[jonKranked]

Also don't forget that the *only* specific reference against homosexuality only pertains to men, *not* lesbians...

that's because women are property DUH

 

[binary visions]

that's because women are property DUH

Does this mean I can stack chairs on top of each other, too?

I've always avoided that, for fear it was an abomination.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I honestly don't understand why X-ians are so insecure in their beliefs that they're demanding that they be reinforced by government actions? If X-anity is so powerful that it can survive having it's believers eaten by lions, surely it can survive NOT being taught in public schools, or NOT having religious articles decorating government buildings?

Do X-ians really feel that their religion is so weak that children might stray if they only get 16 hours of indoctrination per day instead of the full 24?

Must spread rep..........

When it comes to stuff like this in school, and even learning about other religions I have no problem with, unlike some of my Christian neighbors. If we're going to take the Bible seriously (note, I did not say literally), and the Text says stuff like "He owns the cattle on a 1000 hills" and stuff like that, He doesn't need me to defend Him...........He's God, He's got that covered. The culture that wrote the Text rarely engaged in trying to defend God or prove God, to them He is/was, and that was that.

Regardless of what is taught in school, use it as an opprotunity to engage with your child in a discussion about said topic...........in other words BE A PARENT.

 

[Andyman_1970]

this simply isn't true
jesus said, 'you are forgiven; go, & sin no more'

--not--

'live a lifestyle however you wish, and please pay no attention to the teachings of My Father when they are inconvenient to your whims'

the 'tolerant' message is incorrectly packaged as "do not judge, lest ye be judged -- full stop", and is a silly message on its face, irrespective of religious identity.

would anyone here care to tolerate child molesters, or worse yet, those who put forth a thinly-veiled creationist agenda in public schools?

Who did Jesus really come down on (Matthew 23 for example)? Who did He say to "go and sin no more" to?

 

[$tinkle]

Who did Jesus really come down on (Matthew 23 for example)? Who did He say to "go and sin no more" to?

in particular, my comment was using the parable of the whore just caught whoring

of course, all of us filthy whores, scribes, & pharisees

 

[dante]

^^^^Sound like any particular religious/political figures these days?

1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;

Maybe this guy?

 

[$tinkle]

<ted>

you'd be pleasantly surprised to learn about him now after his years-long journey to damascus

i'll leave that as an exercise for the interested...

 

[Pesqueeb]

Damascus is in Arizona?


It's all starting to make sense.....,.

 

[dante]

It's amazing how many "roads to Damascus" there are.... (and all are apparently only able to be traveled once someone gets caught)

 

[Andyman_1970]

in particular, my comment was using the parable of the whore just caught whoring

of course, all of us filthy whores, scribes, & pharisees

Who was that parable addressed to?

I'm not aware that I'm a scribe or a pharisee.......context. Jesus does come down on people hard, but contextually who are they? Rarely if ever does He come down on someone outside of the religious system. A good question would be, what pisses God off more, religious hypocrites, or those who are outside the religious system who sin?

 

[Pesqueeb]

of course, all of us filthy whores, scribes, & pharisees

I'm not aware that I'm a scribe or a pharisee.......context.

Filthy whore it is then! Give this man a custom title!

 

[$tinkle]

Who was that parable addressed to?

keepers of the law.

are you trying to lay a clever trap by saying b/c only jesus can judge us that we should never demand that others be held accountable for their transgressions? if so, am i absolved for any missteps in this thread?

I'm not aware that I'm a scribe or a pharisee.......context. Jesus does come down on people hard, but contextually who are they? Rarely if ever does He come down on someone outside of the religious system. A good question would be, what pisses God off more, religious hypocrites, or those who are outside the religious system who sin?

well, when a crucified christ cried out for God to "forgive them, for they know not what they do", that makes it plain to me to whom he pleas for God's mercy. but who crucified him? those who 'knew better'? seems to me they were at the very heart of the religious system, and were (perhaps) the most wicked of all.

ymmv

 

[dante]

are you trying to lay a clever trap by saying b/c only jesus can judge us that we should never demand that others be held accountable for their transgressions? if so, am i absolved for any missteps in this thread?

I'm pretty sure it depends on the transgression....

 

[Andyman_1970]

keepers of the law.

are you trying to lay a clever trap by saying b/c only jesus can judge us that we should never demand that others be held accountable for their transgressions? if so, am i absolved for any missteps in this thread?

Couple of thoughts.

Does Jesus command His disciples and by defacto us (Christians) to judge those out side our faith?

I’m not trying to lay a trap at all Stink. There are some threads in Christianity that feel obligated to be societies moral “police” or “parakeet in the mine” so to speak. While there is some Textual evidence for doing this for those of our faith, I see little evidence for applying this to those outside our faith.

Did Jesus come to establish the morality police, or did Jesus come to teach a way of living that would literally bring Heaven to earth according to the Text?

well, when a crucified christ cried out for God to "forgive them, for they know not what they do", that makes it plain to me to whom he pleas for God's mercy. but who crucified him? those who 'knew better'? seems to me they were at the very heart of the religious system, and were (perhaps) the most wicked of all.

ymmv

The Roman’s crucified Him, the Jewish leadership was not permitted to carry out executions in early 1st century 2nd Temple era. Was He speaking about the Roman’s or the Sanhedrin?

I guess I don’t understand the connection to the discussion at hand.

this simply isn't true
jesus said, 'you are forgiven; go, & sin no more'

--not--

'live a lifestyle however you wish, and please pay no attention to the teachings of My Father when they are inconvenient to your whims'

the 'tolerant' message is incorrectly packaged as "do not judge, lest ye be judged -- full stop", and is a silly message on its face, irrespective of religious identity.

Who is obligated to pay attention to the teaching of My Father according to the Text?

 

[JohnE]

Also don't forget that the *only* specific reference against homosexuality only pertains to men, *not* lesbians...

I htought that was implied...

 

[dante]

I htought that was implied...

Nope, it's definitive proof that god is a man - he loves lesbians as much as the rest of us.

NSFW

You didn't think I'd post a pic of lesbians here, did you?

 

[$tinkle]

Does Jesus command His disciples and by defacto us (Christians) to judge those out side our faith?

no

Did Jesus come to establish the morality police, or did Jesus come to teach a way of living that would literally bring Heaven to earth according to the Text?

b)

The Roman&#8217;s crucified Him, the Jewish leadership was not permitted to carry out executions in early 1st century 2nd Temple era.

being ever so business-savvy, the jews put the contract out
come to think about it, this is the very M.O. that jesse & al use

Who is obligated to pay attention to the teaching of My Father according to the Text?

whoever signs up for the full 8 seconds, i suppose

 

[Westy]

Does this mean I can stack chairs on top of each other, too?

I've always avoided that, for fear it was an abomination.

And don't wear garments of mixed fiber, also an abomination.
And your robe must have 4 tassle's along the cloak you wear.
Raping conquered women is cool "And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife"
As is stoning disobedient children

 

[binary visions]

As is stoning disobedient children

Nobody told me about this one. That is a belief I can get behind.

Do they have to be your own children, or are you allowed to stone others' rugrats?

 

[MikeD]

Nobody told me about this one. That is a belief I can get behind.

Do they have to be your own children, or are you allowed to stone others' rugrats?

More importantly, how to you get them to inhale?

Then again, kids love baked goods.

 

[stevew]

Nope, it's definitive proof that god is a man - he loves lesbians as much as the rest of us.

NSFW

You didn't think I'd post a pic of lesbians here, did you?

relevant...what law is being broken here.....nsfw

/thread?

 

[Pesqueeb]

relevant...what law is being broken here.....

/thread?