[BurlyShirley]

I'm about as pro-gun as anyone I know, but this has got to be the stupidest example of "lawmaking" I've ever seen. Also, considering the times and current economic situation, this is a tremendous waste of time.

The Rundown: Basically the republicans won a ton of state seats in the last election, they've decided to wield their new-found power in some odd ways. The biggest examples are in passing legislation to allow guns in state parks, and now a law which will allow guns in bars. Yes, that's right, they are fighting to allow guns into drinking establishments. It passed through the legislature with flying colors, but our Governor (a democrat) finally displayed some common sense and vetoed the thing.

Today's news is that the Republicans are now planning a veto override.

What in the ****ing fvck?

How important is this? We've got half the state's auto manufacturing plants closed or slowing production. The state is running broke and they're cutting state jobs like nobody's business, because of course the repubs wouldn't dare raise taxes significantly. Education and Healthcare here are among the worst in the US. And this is what the republicans are worried about.

Here's a link:
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/28/bredesen-veto-guns-bars-bill/

 

[Westy]

If people can carry guns into bars they might buy more guns therefore helping the economy of Connecticut, Brazil and local funeral homes.

Oh and freedom is the biggest tent.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Im pretty sure guns-in-bars wasn't even legal in Tombstone or Dodge City. I mean how stupid are these people?

 

[jonKranked]

Booze + Angry Rednecks = Violence

Booze + Angry Rednecks + Guns + bars = more violent crimes

more violent crimes = more violent criminals

more violent criminals = more prisoners

more prisoners = more prisons

more prisons = more jobs


you still following along?

 

[valve bouncer]

Guns and alcohol Shirl, they go together like sweaty balls and a hot day.

 

[Westy]

More importantly, can I now get a beer at the shoot'n range?

 

[4xBoy]

How better to encourage prohibition.

 

[BurlyShirley]

From the NRA Website:

Never use alcohol or over-the-counter, prescription or other drugs before or while shooting.
Alcohol, as well as any other substance likely to impair normal mental or physical bodily functions, must not be used before or while handling or shooting guns.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp



Of course, the NRA is also strongly pushing for this legislation to pass:

It is critical that you contact your Representative and Senator immediately and ask that they vote to override the Governor’s veto of HB 962.

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=4932

 

[Westy]

Are you allowed to shoot wildly into the air when a waskely wabbit pisses you off?

 

[dan-o]

I don't see a problem, really. If the state certifies people to carry I'd rather the weapons be on the owners hip versus in the glove box of their car.

What next, banning cars from the parking lots of places that serve alcohol?

 

[I Are Baboon]

You're probably hanging out in the wrong bars if you need to bring your gun with you.

 

[kidwoo]

I don't see a problem, really. If the state certifies people to carry I'd rather the weapons be on the owners hip versus in the glove box of their car.

What next, banning cars from the parking lots of places that serve alcohol?

If that's the analogy that pops into your head then I guess I could see why you wouldn't see a problem.


Nevermind how completely misguided that analogy happens to be.

 

[ohio]

I don't see a problem, really. If the state certifies people to carry I'd rather the weapons be on the owners hip versus in the glove box of their car.

What next, banning cars from the parking lots of places that serve alcohol?

Really? You're having a hard time understanding this?

1) Consumption of alcohol increases veracity of emotional response and decreases rational decision making capability. Additionally, for many people it causes an increase in aggression.
2) Having a firearm immediately available increases the probability that it will be used impulsively (that is, without logical consideration of consequences).
3) We carry or own guns because we need to be able to protect ourselves from other people that carry or own guns, and at this stage there's no way to prevent almost any criminal from obtaining a gun. However, at an individual establishment, it is quite easy to enforce a no-guns policy. There is no need for a gun in a bar if no one else has a gun in a bar.
4) Therefore.... ???


Not to mention that if two dip****s want to shoot each other in the parking lot, that's a whole lot less dangerous than two dip****s shooting each other in a crowded bar.

 

[X3pilot]

You're probably hanging out in the wrong bars if you need to bring your gun with you.

Exactly! All the bars I go to have a complimentary loaner gun program so you don't have to bring yours in.

 

[X3pilot]

Really? You're having a hard time understanding this?

1) Consumption of alcohol increases veracity of emotional response and decreases rational decision making capability. Additionally, for many people it causes an increase in aggression.
2) Having a firearm immediately available increases the probability that it will be used impulsively (that is, without logical consideration of consequences).
3) We carry or own guns because we need to be able to protect ourselves from other people that carry or own guns, and at this stage there's no way to prevent almost any criminal from obtaining a gun. However, at an individual establishment, it is quite easy to enforce a no-guns policy. There is no need for a gun in a bar if no one else has a gun in a bar.
4) Therefore.... ???


Not to mention that if two dip****s want to shoot each other in the parking lot, that's a whole lot less dangerous than two dip****s shooting each other in a crowded bar.

You're right, but how can it be explained about the rash of church shootings in the last few years?

 

[Inclag]

I'm all for this incase I run into this guy

 

[dan-o]

Really? You're having a hard time understanding this?

No, I understand it perfectly.
I grew up around guns. I grew up around drunks. We all survived because we aren't ****ing idiots.

Personally, I wouldn't support this measure but you can't legislate risk out of society. People do stupid **** (throw babies out of cars, hold children hostage in the basement, shoot up their classroom/office/church, become white guys with dreads) because they are ****ed in the head, not due to the lack of a law banning it.

 

[vtjim]

No, I understand it perfectly.
I grew up around guns. I grew up around drunks. We all survived because we aren't ****ing idiots.

Personally, I wouldn't support this measure but you can't legislate risk out of society. People do stupid **** (throw babies out of cars, hold children hostage in the basement, shoot up their classroom/office/church, become white guys with dreads) because they are ****ed in the head, not due to the lack of a law banning it.

So by your argument there should be laws because people are going to be stupid anyway.

This law is not to prevent people from being stupid, it's to protect those of us who are not stupid from those who are stupid. It will not prevent that 100%, but it would go a long way.

 

[stevew]

You're right, but how can it be explained about the rash of church shootings in the last few years?

jesus restocking heaven with christian soldiers....

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

No, I understand it perfectly.
I grew up around guns. I grew up around drunks. We all survived because we aren't ****ing idiots.

Do you read what you post ?

 

[MMike]

No, I understand it perfectly.
I grew up around guns. I grew up around drunks. We all survived because we aren't ****ing idiots.

Personally, I wouldn't support this measure but you can't legislate risk out of society. People do stupid **** (throw babies out of cars, hold children hostage in the basement, shoot up their classroom/office/church, become white guys with dreads) because they are ****ed in the head, not due to the lack of a law banning it.

holy crap....

 

[moff_quigley]

holy crap....

Well you really shouldn't trust a white guy with dreads.

 

[JohnE]

...or a bald barber. Or a dentist with bad teeth. Or skinny cooks.

 

[ohio]

You're right, but how can it be explained about the rash of church shootings in the last few years?

Jesus increases veracity of emotional response, decreases rational decision making capability, and causes an increase in aggression.

 

[sanjuro]

I'm against guns inside bars.

Screws up my usual MO of waiting in the parking lot to backshoot the guy who spilled drinks on me.

 

[ebarker9]

To quote the Daily Show: "Alcohol causes problems, guns resolve problems..."

 

[BurlyShirley]

Welp, the veto-override just passed.

Im bringin' my gun to the bar I guess. Might as well have a fightin' chance when the sh*t goes down.

 

[jimmydean]

Strippers with guns would be hawt.

 

[X3pilot]

As you wish...

 

[drkenan]

You guys are gonna kill each other faster than the Chinese and their new Hummers.

 

[DaveW]

You guys are gonna kill each other faster than the Chinese and their new Hummers.

Well their Texans so it's not entirely a bad thing is it?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Well their Texans so it's not entirely a bad thing is it?

Uh....TN means Tennessee...but no...it's not entirely a bad thing.

 

[DaveW]

Whoops my bad.

 

[drkenan]

Whoops my bad.

Ha ha - Tennessee has a saving grace or 2 I guess. But that's still fvcking retarded. If I lived in TN I'd be having a lot more nights in.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

TN, taking giant leaps backwards.

Just unfvcking believable.

 

[MikeD]

Part of the issue is that establishments (restaurants) which serve alcohol or contain a bar are considered "bars" under some state laws. A legal CCW carrier should be able to take his family to a restaurant (or eat there alone...just saying...) without needing to disarm himself.

I think the point would be better made not by banning guns from certain places by law (although private establishments can limit carry of their own will and accord) but by making the consumption of alcohol while armed illegal.

 

[kingbee]

but by making the consumption of alcohol while armed illegal.

I just read through 3 pages to make sure I wasn't the first one to post this. I see no problem with allowing guns into bars or "establishments that serve alcohol". I do believe that it is illegal to carry a weapon and consume alcohol. I think everyone is assuming that if you go into a bar you are going to drink. This law is for those that don't intend to drink.

I cant carry into the local Applebees when I go to dinner with my wife because they serve alcohol. Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[ohio]

This law is for those that don't intend to drink.

emphasis added.

ever had a night when you didn't intend to drink? 12 hours later you wake up with your face pressed into the cigarette burns of a stained shag carpet, underneath a 300lbs tranny and a thin layer of your own vomit? Well just be glad no one died.

edit: I see you frequent an Applebee's in Ohio. I take back what I said. You should be able to carry a gun, but only if you shoot everyone there.

 

[MikeD]

emphasis added.

ever had a night when you didn't intend to drink? 12 hours later you wake up with your face pressed into the cigarette burns of a stained shag carpet, underneath a 300lbs tranny and a thin layer of your own vomit? Well just be glad no one died.

edit: I see you frequent an Applebee's in Ohio. I take back what I said. You should be able to carry a gun, but only if you shoot everyone there.

Although I agree with the edit, by your logic, no one should be able to drive to, from, or within 12 hours of entering any establishment which happens to serve alcohol, because only God knows when they'll start a spontaneous bender and then hop in the car.

 

[1453]

I think the point would be better made not by banning guns from certain places by law (although private establishments can limit carry of their own will and accord) but by making the consumption of alcohol while armed illegal.

that's not entirely unreasonable.

In my recollection most states' permits(more than 40 states issue to all that qualify btw) have a lot of restrictions on what a permit holder can do while armed. A guy can go to prison if he has permit but allows his guns to be visible somehow, for example, that would be brandishing.

I'm not against people carrying legally in a business that serves alcohol, provided that he doesn't drink. Make sure that there are penalties for carrying under the influence and from the low arrest rate of CCW holders everywhere, that group of people are the least of my worries. From what I heard the violent crime arrest rate of CCW permit holders is close to that of police officers, and much much lower than the general public as a whole.

Sure it's easy to say that shoot-outs will happen and wild west will return, but those are the same straw-man arguement that people made against CCW permits in general. After two decades of CCW reform that didn't happen.