[Brian HCM#1]

I've recently been toying with the idea for my DH bike. Northstar has not been tire/rim friendly for me in the past with dented rims and torn tires. For those who have tried them, what are the positives vs negatives. I realize the rotational weight gain, but the bike is already pushing 39+lbs, so what's a little extra weight at this point.

 

[jonKranked]

i started using CC for dh last year and im never going back.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

i started using CC for dh last year and im never going back.

What was your average PSI before & after. I realize rider weight plays a big part in it, I'm about 220-225lbs and typically run 28-30 PSI in the rear and 25 PSI front.

 

[Nick]

I'm 190# and shuttled a very rocky dh trail 3x with like 15psi due to the new install now sealing well. Didn't flat once, didn't roll a tire once. All that said, I don't like the 'feel' of them. Not sure if it's the weight, but they feel dead.

 

[jonKranked]

I'm 190# and shuttled a very rocky dh trail 3x with like 15psi due to the new install now sealing well. Didn't flat once, didn't roll a tire once. All that said, I don't like the 'feel' of them. Not sure if it's the weight, but they feel dead.

at 15 psi they probably feel dead because they're almost flat to begin with.

 

[jonKranked]

What was your average PSI before & after. I realize rider weight plays a big part in it, I'm about 220-225lbs and typically run 28-30 PSI in the rear and 25 PSI front.

im about the same weight and was running similar pressures before hand. this year im running 2.5 tires (and also switched from 26 to 275 wheels for the dh bike). i didn't drop a ton on pressure, i wanna say im at maybe 22-23 psi front and like 26 rear.

 

[SylentK]

Yes

Best thing for tires/rims since tubless was invented. IMO

 

[Cerberus75]

Honestly other than rim protection. Once you get the pressure right and they don't feel dead. You can hold a line better since the tire isn't bouncing off every little thing.

 

[Nick]

at 15 psi they probably feel dead because they're almost flat to begin with.

that was one day and example, and only to show that they definitely do what they claim to do.
running appropriate psi at the bike park and on other shuttles I'm still aware of them.

 

[FlipSide]

I am not going back to non-CC wheels for DH. These inserts open-up crazier lines involving bashing straight into big rocks and landing in rock gardens with confidence. These new line possibilities were a game-changer for me.

I first, I thought the weight sucked for pedally rides, but it doesn't bother me as much now. I am not too sure if I got used to it or if I adapted my riding to brake less and maintain more momentum, but the additional weight really doesn't bother me that much anymore. The advantages greatly outweight the disavantages IMO.

I still have a wheelset without inserts for XC rides on mellower trails.

I used to ride 27/29 PSI without inserts and I am more around 22/24 PSI with CC inserts.

 

[boostindoubles]

I tried it on a trail bike but I abandoned it. If I rode DH I would try it again. I found myself riding on a flat and killed a fresh tire and then fought with the insert changing said tire. Air and sealant on a normal tubeless wheel is still light years ahead of tubes. 28f/32r psi. What needs improved??

 

[djjohnr]

I'd like to try inserts, but imagining having to deal with one trail side puts me off.

 

[jonKranked]

I tried it on a trail bike but I abandoned it. If I rode DH I would try it again. I found myself riding on a flat and killed a fresh tire and then fought with the insert changing said tire. Air and sealant on a normal tubeless wheel is still light years ahead of tubes. 28f/32r psi. What needs improved??

i use rimpact for my trail and enduro bikes.

 

[Kanye West]

I use the Rimpact Pros. Mixed feelings about them. When they're seated correctly and they're new, they're great. The "damp" character going over fast chattery stuff is great. They're lighter than the CC's also and according to some PinkBike impact test, they protect equally as well (the validity of this test is up for debate). They're lighter and cheaper too.

However, the likelihood of warping your new expensive Maxxis tire on install with the Rimpacts is too large to ignore. Rimpact will blame Maxxis all day long for it, despite the tire mounting up and running perfectly true before the insert install. I'm not sure if this same issue exists with the Cushcores, but it seems plausible.

I've managed to destroy rims even through the Rimpacts and with higher pressures and Maxxis DD tires. But I am also notoriously very hard on wheels on trails that I know well, so I don't know if that experience would apply to a lot of other people. It's tempting to run the pressures lower with inserts, but I think that invites more impacts to the insert (and consequently the rim). Been running more medium pressures with them lately with good success (25f/27r vs 22f/24r before). I may actually increase a bit from there too as the season goes on.

 

[Andeh]

The warping is a real issue with some brands of inserts, and its not clear what exactly causes it. I know lots of people who have issues with Tannus also. I've heard of the least numbers of warping from Cushcore. There's all sorts of tricks that are purported to help, but they make an annoying process even more time consuming. (Fit insert to rim and let it warm up in the sun. Let tire warm up in the sun. Fully seat the tire then remove one bead to install insert. Lube insert and remaining bead. Etc. etc.)

On brands with less dense foam (Tubolight HD), I've run into issues with creating big Stanimals. Again, haven't had or heard of that with Cushcore.

The biggest issue for me with inserts is weight. Running even light weight inserts in sturdy casing tires (DD & DH) means the wheels/tires get so heavy, the bike becomes noticeably harder to get off the ground. If you run good inserts (CC Pro) with light casings, you'll still have a good chance of slashing tires, plus easier to warp the casing. Running light inserts (like CC XC or Tubolight) with EXO+, I've still cracked a rim and broken spokes.

So I'm at the point where on my enduro bike I'd rather just run good casings and 2-3 psi more when in rocky terrain. If I owned a DH bike, I could see installing them and leaving them in. But they're just so much of a hassle between potentially fucking up the casing, the change in feel, and them still not guaranteeing no flats or broken wheels, I'm over switching back and forth.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Thanks for all the input, I'll order them tomorrow

 

[rideit]

I don’t have an answer, but I do have a new carbon rim crack on my ‘trail’ rim, even being very very careful to run enough (or even too much) tire pressure. Wasn’t super stoked on a Tannus trail experience last year, but I might revisit it.

 

[Kanye West]

The warping is a real issue with some brands of inserts, and its not clear what exactly causes it. I know lots of people who have issues with Tannus also. I've heard of the least numbers of warping from Cushcore. There's all sorts of tricks that are purported to help, but they make an annoying process even more time consuming. (Fit insert to rim and let it warm up in the sun. Let tire warm up in the sun. Fully seat the tire then remove one bead to install insert. Lube insert and remaining bead. Etc. etc.)

On brands with less dense foam (Tubolight HD), I've run into issues with creating big Stanimals. Again, haven't had or heard of that with Cushcore.

The biggest issue for me with inserts is weight. Running even light weight inserts in sturdy casing tires (DD & DH) means the wheels/tires get so heavy, the bike becomes noticeably harder to get off the ground. If you run good inserts (CC Pro) with light casings, you'll still have a good chance of slashing tires, plus easier to warp the casing. Running light inserts (like CC XC or Tubolight) with EXO+, I've still cracked a rim and broken spokes.

So I'm at the point where on my enduro bike I'd rather just run good casings and 2-3 psi more when in rocky terrain. If I owned a DH bike, I could see installing them and leaving them in. But they're just so much of a hassle between potentially fucking up the casing, the change in feel, and them still not guaranteeing no flats or broken wheels, I'm over switching back and forth.

I am having more reliable results by fully seating and inflating the tire on the rim, no sealant, spraying with soapy water to look for any leak paths to troubleshoot BEFORE I put in the insert and the sealant, and leaving them in the sun with 45psi for a couple hours. From there I just have to pop the one bead off and things go on with much less stress on the bead.

If it weren't for the availability of that and I lived in a cold climate, I don't think these would be an option.

 

[6thElement]

Tannus on the DH bike, just to give some protection and give me the ability to roll down the mountain if I do get a flat. NFW do I want to bother with inserts on a trail bike and then what to do with them if I do get a puncture that won't plug and I need to tube.

 

[Loki87]

In my humble opinion, on a dh bike, if you´re not running an insert you´re kinda sabotaging your ride experience.
For me they´ve been a game changer. Haven´t flatted in years. I run Procore in the front because it gives a much more precise feel than cushcore and guarantees i don´t burp or roll the tire in corners. Cushcore in the rear for the added protection and comfort.

On the trail bike the risk of a trailside cushcore tire change keeps me from running them. I had to cut a tire off after the tubeless sealant had dried over the winter and the tire wouldn´t move a single milimeter and even regular changes aren´t exactly a fun or quick experience.

 

[HardtailHack]

I like it, I have annus up front and Cush in the rear, I prefer the Cushcore.

I would like to see how much it shrinks under pressure though, I would think Procore with some open cell foam in the little tube would be the best way to do it- If that were possible.

Seems pretty odd to squash CCF down with air pressure, but hey, it still works.

I did run Tyre Juice but it seemed to struggle to seal holes around the sidewall, possibly because it was so viscous.
I have Tune Sealant now but I don't think I have damaged a tire whilst running it, I doubt it would seal a decent hole but it goes for a year without drying so I use it because I am lazy.

 

[sethimus]

octamousse red front/black in the back. so far happy with the setup (with new exo+ tires)

 

[HardtailHack]

octamousse red front/black in the back. so far happy with the setup (with new exo+ tires)

View attachment 178643

What does this mean?

 

[sethimus]

spangrish probably

NSMB did a review on them:

NSMB.com - Octamousse Insert Review

These 8-sided pool noodles are very light but they also provide excellent protection and a ride that is closer to riding regular tubeless...

nsmb.com

 

[Lelandjt]

In the back of a DH bike they're necessary to utilize what modern suspension and big wheels can do. Up front I haven't felt the need and on the enduro bike I'm content to not bash stuff as hard and get away with DDs and no inserts.

 

[Shizzon]

I have had great experiences with CushCore, though I don't have a DH bike.

On my Smash (I9 Enduro), I have the "Pro" insert in the back with a DD casing, and up front I have the XC insert with an EXO+ casing. Seems to do pretty well for me.

For my hardtail (I9 Trail 270), I have and XC insert in the back with no insert up front (EXO casings F/R). This wheelset is currently using a tire in the rear that won't seal up for tubeless, so in the rear I have a tube AND the XC Cushcore insert...I simply pushed the valve through the insert. This tube + CC setup has been surprisingly durable as I wait for a replacement to come in.

At this time I would feel pretty exposed without an insert in the rear at least; confidence through the rocks is much higher with CC and my tires last longer.

 

[6thElement]

I smashed holes in my rear tyre on rocks riding in the mountains on Saturday and had to put a tube in for the first time in years. I felt like I had to take it easy down the remainder of the trail

 

[SylentK]

Thanks for all the input, I'll order them tomorrow

Atta boy!

For installation, just be sure to kinda study the instructions/video/technique. It's all in the technique. Even down to the trash can. yes, it's handy. You'll see

I'm pretty sure there's been some threads on tire inserts and CC. But feel free to ping me with any questions. I've been running them for years now on various bikes, from racing to for fun and everything inbetween

 

[Kanye West]

I have annus up front and Cush in the rear

Oh my...

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Atta boy!

For installation, just be sure to kinda study the instructions/video/technique. It's all in the technique. Even down to the trash can. yes, it's handy. You'll see

I'm pretty sure there's been some threads on tire inserts and CC. But feel free to ping me with any questions. I've been running them for years now on various bikes, from racing to for fun and everything inbetween

Thanks! They just showed up today, will install them on Sunday and will be hitting Northstar the following Saturday. Looking forward to trying them out!

 

[norbar]

In the back of a DH bike they're necessary to utilize what modern suspension and big wheels can do. Up front I haven't felt the need and on the enduro bike I'm content to not bash stuff as hard and get away with DDs and no inserts.

It's really that much of a difference? I've rode mostly rental enduros recently but no 29er dh bikes but I don't remember constantly killing tires on the legend which was already a plow bike

 

[Lelandjt]

It's really that much of a difference? I've rode mostly rental enduros recently but no 29er dh bikes but I don't remember constantly killing tires on the legend which was already a plow bike

Running the same pressures in my 29" DH bike as my 26" (28-30 rear, 24-25 front) I was getting occassional rim hits in the rear, which I didn't used to. I guess the bigger wheels have me hitting things faster and the longer reach makes these impacts manageable. Maybe the larger volume of a 29" tire makes them more suseptible to rim hits because its air pressure doesn't ramp up as much as 26" when compressed.

 

[norbar]

Running the same pressures in my 29" DH bike as my 26" (28-30 rear, 24-25 front) I was getting occassional rim hits in the rear, which I didn't used to. I guess the bigger wheels have me hitting things faster and the longer reach makes these impacts manageable. Maybe the larger volume of a 29" tire makes them more suseptible to rim hits because its air pressure doesn't ramp up as much as 26" when compressed.

Interesting. Since I no longer be riding on rentals and the enduro rig has some travel I might test that. Not too eager to go cush core but might simply go DH tires and tubeless. Though the bike is heavy already.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

What an F'n nightmare to get them mounted! First one too about a hour in a half, second about 30 min. I guess the rims made it more challenging being Stan's MK4's. Well with everything said & done both tires have a nice wobble in them. Tried letting the air out of the front and pushing the insert around but still there. Sprayed the inside of the tire with soapy water during the install. Are there any tricks out there to get the tire a little straighter without removing it?

 

[Cerberus75]

This is drawn out but I can't go warping customers tires. I mount the incert on a spare rim so it is rounded out, and mount the tire on the wheel overnight. Next day pop off one side and put the incert on the rim than mount the tire. I have the wheel laying over a large trash can. It's easier to push the bead into the center of the rim.

 

[sethimus]

15min per wheel job with the octamousse, no warped tires

 

[HardtailHack]

What an F'n nightmare to get them mounted! First one too about a hour in a half, second about 30 min. I guess the rims made it more challenging being Stan's MK4's. Well with everything said & done both tires have a nice wobble in them. Tried letting the air out of the front and pushing the insert around but still there. Sprayed the inside of the tire with soapy water during the install. Are there any tricks out there to get the tire a little straighter without removing it?

First one I did I damaged the bead and the tire was permanently damaged.

 

[englertracing]

15min per wheel job with the octamousse, no warped tires

What If the tires come pre warped