[mykel]

Has the come to a consensus regarding tubeless tape?

Been changing between gravity and trail tires a couple times this year and the tape I have been using does not hold up well. I have been using Kapton tape. (The non-bike original version of Spanks Fratelli tape) Double wrap and never had a problem with it sealing, but it seems easily dislodged by tire removal.

I picked up some Muc-off and gave it a go. Cleaned and alcohol wiped the rim. Spotless it was. It went on real nice, no bubbles or wrinkles - spent a bit of time with a microfibre cloth making sure everything was pushed into the infuriating oobah profile Spank uses. Looked fucking perfect, ready for product marketing shots. Tire on, Stans race in, aired up, and leaked like a motherfucker arouind half a dozen spoke holes?



Tire off, rim wiped down, and it still looks good, no bubble, wrinkles, folded edges - nothing. No idea.
The only thing I can think of is that the single wrap as instructed along with pushing the tape into the profile, even through a cloth has pin holed the tape on the spoke hole edges. Just a guess.

It is not like I have tried a whole bunch. So far Stan's, Gorilla, Kapton and now Muc-Off.
Gorilla seems to hold up the best, but I really don't want to remove what it is on cause of residue horror stories, especially as it has been on for several years now. It is sealing up a old non tubeless DT rim just fine though several tire changes.

So, double wrap the Muc-Off?
... or back to the Kapton?
...or what do I get to waste far to much money on far too little product next?

What do you guys use and what are your thoughts on it?

 

[Westy]

Have had problems in the past but had great success with the last wheelset because I used full width tape instead of something narrower.

Also a heat gun to warm the tape up once applied seems to help.

 

[Andeh]

I do single wrap, overlapping about 4 nipples long. I clean the rim with iso alcohol first. Usually use DT tape, 2mm wider than rim internal (so 32mm tape on 30mm rim). I pull with a lot of tension and focus on trying to get it down in the channel and staying centered, then come back and do the sides. A few bubbles don't seem to matter if you've got good adhesion mostly. I find getting it edge to edge helps a lot, since there's less chance the edge of the tire bead or your lever can catch the edge of the tape.

I doubt the type of tape makes a big difference. All that matters is that it's got a bit of stretch, and a good amount of adhesion onto a clean rim.

 

[jonKranked]

having taped a set of spank rims with the oohbah profile, your problem isn't the tape.

 

[jonKranked]

i think my spank rims were the only ones I've had to double wrap.

 

[FlipSide]

I've only tried ghetto tubeless with a split tube, Stan's yellow tape and Gorilla tape.

I hate the Gorilla tape. I find it moves too easily when putting tires on and off. Sealant also seem to dissolve the glue over time...then you need to change the tape and clean up the mess it left behind.

I am really frustrated to see how much a roll of Stan's tape costs in 2022...but it is still my go-to tubeless tape. I've been using it for years without issue.

 

[jonKranked]

also, don't worry about getting good adhesion on the curved part in the center of the rim. focus on the flat sides of the rim bed where the tire bead will seat.

 

[canadmos]

I've been using the Orange Seal tape for a while and it holds up nice for me, though I don't change tires that often.

I was also given a roll of kapton tape by my wheel guy recently and just could not get it to stick at the start, so I just went back to the Orange stuff. The Orange stuff isn't quite as thick, but its definitely more stretchy and has been glue.

 

[jonKranked]

@mykel what width tape are you using and on what rim

 

[StiHacka]

tesa 4289 - Google Search

 

[Jm_]

I learned to overlap at the valve, where I can push the tape against the rim. When I was overlapping it opposite, stretching the tape around the rim was actually pulling it off the valve area of the rim so it wouldn't press up in there nice. That was causing air to leak through into the rim cavity and out nipples. Then I throw a tube in overnight of course to press everything just in case. A little wider than the rim channel helps...probably helps to again make sure it's not stretched off the valve.

 

[jstuhlman]

dunno. have had zero problems ever with gorilla on ex471s. but i don't change things often so set it and forget it is my m.o. and it's been great for that.

 

[Fool]

This rim profile tho

 

[Kanye West]

Gorilla tape works if you don't expect to use another type of rim tape later. Best to clean with isopropyl alcohol first and let the tape sit overnight before exposing it to the sealant. I've found that until the adhesive is cured, there's opportunity for the sealant to weep under it and start fucking with it. It will leave residue so if you think the rim is going to be on its way out, there's nothing wrong with well-applied Gorilla tape, and it's like $4 for 1" rolls at AutoZone.

The Stan's tape is a complete joke. No tack, so if you have to re-seat a section of the tape it's not going to stick at all, and the lack of longitudinal compliance invites wrinkles/air pockets especially if your rim isn't a really flat internal profile. Good luck squeegie-ing them out. On top of that, there's the toughness issue, which is that you WILL puncture the tape if a tire lever comes anywhere within sight of your wheel, and then the tape might as well not even be there.

The MucOff tape is a bit better and has some of that longitudinal compliance and some toughness against tire levers. I've had the best luck with it. It still gets some air bubbles that have to be worked out, but they CAN be worked out which is the saving grace. Seems to work well with 6-10 spokes of overlap. No issues with tack, at least compared to the Stans.

The cost of all of these things to be less than perfect is still obnoxious.

I'll probably try the DT tape next just to find something else to piss me off. Because there aren't enough shitty-priced products in this space.

 

[Kanye West]

This rim profile tho

What the hell is the point of that?

I'd try to find a tape that's +2mm of the width of those two low points from one another. It's probably the fact the tape has to bend 3+ times instead of 1 or 2 that's fucking it up (more than normal).

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Stan's Notubes rim tape. It does get nicked easily by tire irons.

 

[konifere]

@mykel I have muc-off tape in my rear rim (WTB Asym i29) with WPL sealant and a cushcore pro. I've swapped two tires and it's still good (I've added a few small pieces where my tire levers did small tears). I have used 34mm tape on my i29 rims, so the tape goes up a bit on each side of the inner rim. That's what was recommended.

Like others have said, if you have the right tape width for your rim, the rim profile might be the problem. I also overlapped 6-8" at the valve and punched the tape with a heated-up old spoke to make sure the tape didn't tear.

I bought a 66m roll of WTP TCS tubeless tape at Chain Reaction when they were 12$cdn. Looks to be the same the same as Stans and Tesa, but was much cheaper. They still have 32mm widths at 31$cdn/66m so if you have other stuff to order it might be worth it.

 

[Gary]

Sounds like a hell of a lot of the problems reported here are from hamfisted tyre lever use rather than what particular tape is being used. I don't use tyre levers at all when fitting or removing my tyres and tape tends to stay put every time I remove a tyre or break a bead to patch a tyre internally. My last rear Ebike tyre had 8 automotive patches installed when I finally removed, binned and replaced it and is still running the same tape fully intact.
Isn't TESA 4289 the same stuff as Stans but way cheaper. It doesn't actually need to be any tackier if simply applied well in the first place and one spoke eyelet either side of the valve hole is enough overlap. And as someone else already pointed out the centre doesn't need to be completely bubble free so long as the tape is the correct width and the edges are stuck down properly with no wrinkles or bubbles. air pressure forces the tape against the rim and spoke eyelets when inflated. I tend to inflate any new tubeless set up to around 50psi and leave it atleast overnight at that pressure and typically it's first ride too.
Dunno if you have Lifeline products where you guys are but their tubeless tape is cheap and pretty similar in material thickness and stiffness to TESA but black instead of yellow and possibly a little tackier. Available at CRC/Wiggle as it's one of their own brands.

Standard black Gorilla tape is overly tacky so will pretty much always leave a hellish to remove residue if you ever decide you want to re-tape a rim with another tubeless specific tape and being a fabric DIY tape it isn't even air tight in the first place and absorbs sealant over time.

 

[SylentK]

#1 Tip - Put in a tube and tire, inflate to like 40psi and let it set the tape overnight.

#2 Tip - Have a cocktail

 

[Gary]

@Kanye West any DT tape I've ever had has lasted the entire life of the rim. But I've only ever owned it pre-installed on complete build DT wheels. So can't vouch for how easily it applies or it's tackiness.
Have you considered just taking your wheels to a shop to have a mechanic do them to save you getting so pissed off?

 

[HAB]

@Kanye West any DT tape I've ever had has lasted the entire life of the rim. But I've only ever owned it pre-installed on complete build DT wheels. So can't vouch for how easily it applies or it's tackiness.
Have you considered just taking your wheels to a shop to have a mechanic do them to save you getting so pissed off?

The DT stuff is really good. It's tackier and easier to apply than Stan's by a solid margin.

 

[Carraig042]

I like Kapton tape, but the last time I used high-temp polyester tape. I think I like it better, I feel like went on a bit easier and the valve hole was easier to make with a soldering iron.

High-temp polyester tape

 

[mykel]

Not hamfisted tire iron usage.
The tape issues are/were caused by the tape being slightly narrower than the rim width when profile is taken into account. 30mm tape on a 30mm wide rim, but with the profile, there is 1-2mm on each side of exposed bead bed. When breaking the bead, it seems to just catch the tape edge in one or two spots and peel it up just enough to allow sealant to seep underneath. So far no failures and you don't know until the next tire change when you see the seepage.

Just re-wrapped with a double go round of Kapton, this time making sure I was tight up against each rim wall. Was going to tube it for some pressure on the tape, but figured with my luck, when I broke the bead to take out the tube I would F up the tape so just said F-it and aired it up with some of Stan's finest. Aired up great like normal. Probably no more changes this year, so no idea if getting right tight against the bead wall will have any effect.

Keeping fingers crossed.

Edit - Speaking of Tire Levers.
I broke one of my original blue Park levers last time I had to wrestle with a wire bead DH tire. Normal folding bead, I usually only need one to peel the bead, so have not replaced it. I have others but big steel levers tend to leave marks so are a bit much and the pedro's I have are too wide for my tastes. Anything other than the basic blue Park I should add to the next cart?

 

[Kanye West]

If you'd like to put up a video of you removing a Maxxis DD with a Rimpact/Cushcore insert without a lever (or power/air tools), I'd love to see if and I'll Venmo you for a 6 pack.

Until then, lever usage is part of the normal operating environment for rim tape.

 

[6thElement]

Sell Spank rim/wheelset, buy something without that dumb rim profile.

It's what I ended up doing with my wife's first set of DH wheels after attempting to tubeless them.

 

[Gary]

Yeah. Obviously inserts do make removing tyres a hell of a lot more awkward than without. but there's still a way less hamfisted technique that should insure you won't be touching the rim tape with your levers at all.

If you struggle not to damage rim tapes with DDs and rimpact I reckon you'll need that 6 pack to yourself if you ever encounter Cushcore and Michie DH casings.
Having said that. the actual rim you're fitting them to or removing them from makes a fairly big difference too.

 

[mykel]

If you'd like to put up a video of you removing a Maxxis DD with a Rimpact/Cushcore insert without a lever (or power/air tools), I'd love to see if and I'll Venmo you for a 6 pack.

Until then, lever usage is part of the normal operating environment for rim tape.

That is you, not I.
No cushcore or insert.

So...
Trail casings.
Break bead, both sides with fingers/thumbs push into center.
Work from bottom up both sides creating a bit of slack.
There should now be more than enough space to slip a tire lever under without even touching the rim-bed/tape.
Lever it over then slide along rim to peel the bead.
The odd time it is a bit tight and you may need the second lever to do the peeling.
I have used the same procedure with folding bead DH tires.
Wire bead DH tire have not played as well.

What have I been doing wrong the last few decades?

My only experience with cushcore was helping a buddy install one.
That was an experience. For removal I would recommend

 

[mykel]

Sell Spank rim/wheelset, buy something without that dumb rim profile.

It's what I ended up doing with my wife's first set of DH wheels after attempting to tubeless them.

I like the rims except for that stupid profile. They are custom built on Onyx hubs, so I will have to kill the rims first. Then more than likely back to DT.

 

[Jm_]

I've found rubbing alcohol makes tires crazy slippery, way more than soap. You need to spray a lot of it, but then DD casings go on without tire levers. Gloves though, always gloves for grip.

 

[djjohnr]

Edit - Speaking of Tire Levers.
I broke one of my original blue Park levers last time I had to wrestle with a wire bead DH tire. Normal folding bead, I usually only need one to peel the bead, so have not replaced it. I have others but big steel levers tend to leave marks so are a bit much and the pedro's I have are too wide for my tastes. Anything other than the basic blue Park I should add to the next cart?

A super salty service manager at a shop I worked at would never use levers (this is pre-inserts), and would give you the stink eye if he saw you struggling. I took on the challenge and got really good at my technique for just using my hands. That said there's times when technique won't save you and you need a lever. The best I know of are Mavic levers. The lever blade is super thin to squeeze into the narrowest of gaps and they never snap.

https://247cycleshop.com/Mavic-Bearing-Pre-load-tool-tyre-lever-for-M7/7.html

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

Whiskey tape is rad.

Super tacky, nice and stretchy, and has one of those "causes cancer" labels so you know it's legit.
Don't let your kids eat it, unless you hate kids.

 

[slyfink]

Re tire levers, I've been super happy with the cushcore butt plug.

 

[Gary]

Cushcore butt plug is great for pushing the bead under the cushcore into the central rim well but is actually fairly shite as a tyre lever. (tons of numpties snap them)

 

[Gary]

Whiskey tape is rad.

Super tacky, nice and stretchy, and has one of those "causes cancer" labels so you know it's legit.
Don't let your kids eat it, unless you hate kids.

Phew... they don't seem to ship to Germany

 

[jonKranked]

The tape issues are/were caused by the tape being slightly narrower than the rim width when profile is taken into account. 30mm tape on a 30mm wide rim, but with the profile, there is 1-2mm on each side of exposed bead bed

this is your problem.

my dt fr560s are a 30mm internal width, and i used 32mm width tape per dt's recommendation

 

[marshalolson]

A super salty service manager at a shop I worked at would never use levers (this is pre-inserts), and would give you the stink eye if he saw you struggling. I took on the challenge and got really good at my technique for just using my hands. That said there's times when technique won't save you and you need a lever. The best I know of are Mavic levers. The lever blade is super thin to squeeze into the narrowest of gaps and they never snap.

https://247cycleshop.com/Mavic-Bearing-Pre-load-tool-tyre-lever-for-M7/7.html

sounds like you needed to get him some intense 4 ply tires to play with!

 

[mykel]

this is your problem.

my dt fr560s are a 30mm internal width, and i used 32mm width tape per dt's recommendation

Ya, kinda figured that out the hard way.
Gonna hunt down some DT 32mm me thinks.

 

[jonKranked]

Ya, kinda figured that out the hard way.
Gonna hunt down some DT 32mm me thinks.

the spank rim profile definitely can cause more issues if your tape isn't the correct width.

 

[Westy]

There was a brief period of time when I struggled getting tires on I realized the wide offset rims need to have the short side mounted last.

 

[Jm_]

I put a 26" tube in my 27.5 wheel I re-nippled the other day, that was a bitch to get the tire on AND not pinch the tube. Still had a bunch of tube showing, but managed to use two tire levers to pry up and slip it back in. Worked fine, was all I could find on hand to set my tape. If you use the lever to pry the tire on and then let the end of the lever go down into the rim, yeah, chances are you might puncture the tape. I've bought a variety of tire levers to have like 5 different kinds on hand. But I don't actually use them for putting the tire on, just to partially set the bead before pumping up to set.