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top tube lenght dhr dw ??

curtmuss

Chimp
Jan 29, 2013
31
0
Hey can anyone tell me the horizontal length of the top-tube on a dw dhr LARGE frame ??

cheers
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
958
5
cali
Reach and stack are what determine the fit of any mtn bike, especially a DH bike. effective top tube is 99% irrelevant.

think back in your head about the DH bikes of the last couple of years that you've ridden that fit you well. look up the reach and stack for those frames, and compare to the turner R & S.
 

curtmuss

Chimp
Jan 29, 2013
31
0
right,im trying to compare a 2012 summum and a dw dhr , 1 website gives toptube in mm's and the other just gives reach ------ ?? trying to compare the 2 .... aint that easy,well for me anyways
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,859
955
01776
The turner should be around 24.5", based on my math and iron horse's calculation.

My yakuza has an almost identical wheelbase, and the head angle sits about 63*, same as a DHR. The BB is somewhere around 13.7", I think. Headtube is longer on the IH. IH lists the eTT as 24.5", so it should be SIMILAR to the DHR. I'm not going to do the actual trigonometry to figure out exactly where everything sits, but if the yakuza is listed at 24.5", the DHR should be in that area.
 

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
it is extra confusing when mondraker use forward geometry with short stems :p For example for M size you get L or more of dh frame standard size unless we see more similar of GT Fury frame.
 
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Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,718
798
Is it a Large 2012 Summum as well? How tall are you?

According to my rough calculations, the L DHR may be about 0.5" (~12mm) shorter in reach than an L Summum.

I found the L DHR to be pretty generous / roomy in the cockpit, and while the website suggests an L for 5'10 - 6'1, I think most 6'1-6'3 riders will still fit it comfortably without needing the XL. Any taller than that and it's probably worth sizing up though.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,859
955
01776
Hey udi, I have a question for you. I've been looking at dhrs since they're on such good sale right now...but the larges are hard to find, and the mediums are plentiful and cheap (like $400 cheaper). As somebody who rode a medium Sunday but thought it was a bit cramped with an -1.5* Angleset and 50mm stem, but loves his current large yakuza with a -2* angleset and 30mm stem, do you think I would or could fit on a medium dhr? Everybody seems to suggest going big on the dhr, and I really like the way the yakuza fits with a short shock and short stem, but I can't help to wonder if I could fit on a medium dhr and save so much time and money. I'm 5'11" for reference, about a 32" inseam, running 780 bars.
 

Raingauge

Monkey
Apr 3, 2008
692
0
Canadia
Hey udi, I have a question for you. I've been looking at dhrs since they're on such good sale right now...but the larges are hard to find, and the mediums are plentiful and cheap (like $400 cheaper). As somebody who rode a medium Sunday but thought it was a bit cramped with an -1.5* Angleset and 50mm stem, but loves his current large yakuza with a -2* angleset and 30mm stem, do you think I would or could fit on a medium dhr? Everybody seems to suggest going big on the dhr, and I really like the way the yakuza fits with a short shock and short stem, but I can't help to wonder if I could fit on a medium dhr and save so much time and money. I'm 5'11" for reference, about a 32" inseam, running 780 bars.
I'm the same height, inseam and run 760mm bars. My DHR was a large and the only place I didn't like it was on the North Shore. It was brutal in super tight stuff.

I think you could be comfortable on a medium or large depending on your trails.
 

curtmuss

Chimp
Jan 29, 2013
31
0
im 6ft , and like a roomy top tube as i tend to be a "hanger off the back" , yeah i kinda worked out the summum was half inch longer too... they should all state REACH measurements !! i can get a good deal on a summum so may just do it

cheers
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,718
798
curtmuss -
It's actually a bit tricky because different BB heights (and HT lengths) change hand-foot distances, so even if Mondraker did give a reach measurement you really have to compare the stack measurements also (not just the reach). I find the most useful thing is to take the reach and stack as sides of a triangle, and compare the hypotenuse of those values between the two bikes (simple trig) - this gives an accurate comparison of hand-foot distance and thus the practical reach of a DH bike. Unfortunately useless here because Mondraker doesn't give reach/stack, but might be handy to know in future. At 6' though I think you'd fit both bikes reasonably well.

Hey udi, I have a question for you. I've been looking at dhrs since they're on such good sale right now...but the larges are hard to find, and the mediums are plentiful and cheap (like $400 cheaper). As somebody who rode a medium Sunday but thought it was a bit cramped with an -1.5* Angleset and 50mm stem, but loves his current large yakuza with a -2* angleset and 30mm stem, do you think I would or could fit on a medium dhr? Everybody seems to suggest going big on the dhr, and I really like the way the yakuza fits with a short shock and short stem, but I can't help to wonder if I could fit on a medium dhr and save so much time and money. I'm 5'11" for reference, about a 32" inseam, running 780 bars.
As Raingauge said I think it's going to be down to preference at that point. I'm roughly the same size as you and have ridden both the L and M DW-DHR. I think in terms of reach/stack numbers I'm happiest between those two sizes, but would definitely lean towards a large. Did you run 780 bars on your Sunday as well? If that's the case and you thought it was a bit cramped, you'll probably feel the same on the M DHR unfortunately. Because they are slacker bikes, you end up getting slightly shorter hand-foot distance and slightly longer wheelbase compared to 'older' geometries like the Sunday/Yakuza.

If you're happy on a -2* L Yakuza then I'd pin you as happier on the L DHR than the M.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,859
955
01776
As Raingauge said I think it's going to be down to preference at that point. I'm roughly the same size as you and have ridden both the L and M DW-DHR. I think in terms of reach/stack numbers I'm happiest between those two sizes, but would definitely lean towards a large. Did you run 780 bars on your Sunday as well? If that's the case and you thought it was a bit cramped, you'll probably feel the same on the M DHR unfortunately. Because they are slacker bikes, you end up getting slightly shorter hand-foot distance and slightly longer wheelbase compared to 'older' geometries like the Sunday/Yakuza.

If you're happy on a -2* L Yakuza then I'd pin you as happier on the L DHR than the M.
That's kinda what I expected. I originally had 800mm bars on my sunday with a 50mm stem and 0* cups. That was really comfortable. Then I switched to the -1.5* AS and 780 raceface bars and started feeling a little cramped. I've gone through a couple of bikes since then that were all about the same size as the sunday, downtube wise, and they all felt small, but that's ignoring any of the other sizing issues. I immediately felt pretty comfortable on the yakuza, so I'd rather not go back. Sounds like my question is answered.

FWIW, I measured the reach on the yakuza and came up with something like 17". That sounds huge. Am I measuring it right? I took the vertical from the center of the BB up and then to the center of the top of the headtube. The yakuza has a longer headtube and the fork is slightly longer than the 570mm A2C reference, but that should only ADD to the reach, right?
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,718
798
17" sounds a bit long for an L frame, but not unreasonable.
Self-measuring reach / stack accurately is actually a tricky affair, because they depend on a number of variables (eg. the bike being perfectly level including tyres etc) and the lines meet at a virtual point. You really need some sort of jig and a few spirit levels to get accurate numbers IMO, but what you can do very easily is measure the aforementioned hypotenuse value (centre of top of headtube to centre of BB). Once you do that, you can compare the number to other bikes - this measurement is simply sqrt(reach squared + stack squared), for bikes that give those numbers. It's 719-720mm for a medium Sunday.

What that doesn't give you is the ratio between reach and stack for your Ironhorse bikes, but it doesn't really matter a lot when it comes to how you fit on the bike - and as a bonus, other DW camp bikes seem to have similar ratios anyway (partially because they all have similarly low BBs and 'stack' varies mostly due to this).

A taller A-C will actually reduce the reach and increase the stack, and a longer headtube also increases the stack. It is a little hard to get the feel for these measurements but once you play around with them a bit you'll see what influences them and how.

The important thing is that reach and stack should be considered together when judging fit of a bike - I think the term 'reach' is a little misleading in that sense because a lot of people consider it alone. Combining the two as I said will give you a better idea of fit, and as a bonus you can physically measure that component easily. Let the WB / CS length and HA numbers help explain how the bike will ride, after you've figured out fit.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,493
848
Seattle
I'll echo what's been said above about ETT being an ineffective measure of a DH bike, but since I promised, my L DW DHR measures at 23 3/8".
 

DHRracer

Monkey
Sep 29, 2004
373
0
17" sounds a bit long for an L frame, but not unreasonable.
Self-measuring reach / stack accurately is actually a tricky affair, because they depend on a number of variables (eg. the bike being perfectly level including tyres etc) and the lines meet at a virtual point. You really need some sort of jig and a few spirit levels to get accurate numbers IMO, but what you can do very easily is measure the aforementioned hypotenuse value (centre of top of headtube to centre of BB). Once you do that, you can compare the number to other bikes - this measurement is simply sqrt(reach squared + stack squared), for bikes that give those numbers. It's 719-720mm for a medium Sunday.

What that doesn't give you is the ratio between reach and stack for your Ironhorse bikes, but it doesn't really matter a lot when it comes to how you fit on the bike - and as a bonus, other DW camp bikes seem to have similar ratios anyway (partially because they all have similarly low BBs and 'stack' varies mostly due to this).

A taller A-C will actually reduce the reach and increase the stack, and a longer headtube also increases the stack. It is a little hard to get the feel for these measurements but once you play around with them a bit you'll see what influences them and how.

The important thing is that reach and stack should be considered together when judging fit of a bike - I think the term 'reach' is a little misleading in that sense because a lot of people consider it alone. Combining the two as I said will give you a better idea of fit, and as a bonus you can physically measure that component easily. Let the WB / CS length and HA numbers help explain how the bike will ride, after you've figured out fit.
I did not buy for this purpose but I found it makes measuring stack and reach a lot easier. Check out a drywall T-square cost about ten bucks.