Quantcast

Toronto; Canada's most violent city?

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by N8 v2.0, Dec 28, 2005.

  1. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

    Rep/Likes:
    18 / 149
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    11,007
    Location:
    The Cleft of Venus
    Canada blames U.S. for gun violence
    Toronto shooting is latest death in a record year
    AP | December 28, 2005

    TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Canadian officials, seeking to make sense of another fatal shooting in what has been a record year for gun-related deaths, said Tuesday that along with a host of social ills, part of the problem stemmed from what they said was the United States exporting its violence.

    Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin and Toronto Mayor David Miller warned that Canada could become like the United States after gunfire erupted Monday on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a 15-year-old girl and wounding six bystanders -- the latest victims in a record surge in gun violence in Toronto.

    The shooting stemmed from a dispute among a group of 10 to 15 youth, and the victim was a teenager out with a parent near a popular shopping mall, police said Tuesday.

    "I think it's a day that Toronto has finally lost its innocence," Det. Sgt. Savas Kyriacou said. "It was a tragic loss and tragic day."

    While many Canadians take pride in Canadian cities being less violent than their American counterparts, Toronto has seen 78 murders this year, including a record 52 gun-related deaths -- almost twice as many as last year.

    "What happened yesterday was appalling. You just don't expect it in a Canadian city," the mayor said.

    "It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

    Miller said Toronto, a city of nearly three million, is still very safe compared to most American cities, but the illegal flow of weapons from the United States is causing the noticeable rise in gun violence.

    "The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.

    Miller said that while almost every other crime in Toronto is down, the supply of guns has increased and half of them come from the United States.

    Miller said the availability of stolen Canadian guns is another problem, and that poverty in certain Toronto neighborhoods is a root cause.

    "There are neighborhoods in Toronto where young people face barriers of poverty, discrimination and don't have real hope and opportunity. The kind of programs that we once took for granted in Canada that would reach out to young people have systematically disappeared over the past decade and I think that gun violence is a symptom of a much bigger problem," Miller said.

    The escalating violence prompted the prime minister to announce earlier this month that if re-elected on January 23, his government would ban handguns. With severe restrictions already in place against handgun ownership, many criticized the announcement as politics.

    Martin, who says up to half of the gun crimes in Canada involve weapons brought in illegally from the United States, raised the smuggling problem when he met with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in October.

    Martin offered his condolences in a statement Tuesday, saying he was horrified by the shootings.

    "What we saw yesterday is a stark reminder of the challenge that governments, police forces and communities face to ensure that Canadian cities do not descend into the kind of rampant gun violence we have seen elsewhere," Martin said.

    John Thompson, a security analyst with the Toronto-based Mackenzie Institute, says the number of guns smuggled from the United States is a problem, but that Canada has a gang problem -- not a gun problem -- and that Canada should stop pointing the finger at the United States.

    "It's a cop out. It's an easy way of looking at one symptom rather than addressing a whole disease," Thompson said.

    Two suspects were arrested and at least one firearm was seized soon after the shootings Monday. Kyriacou said it was an illegal handgun.

    Three females and four males were injured, including one male who is in critical condition. Police believe they were bystanders.
     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. The Amish

    The Amish Dumber than N8

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    645
    I suppose all those bearded homeless ladies sleepin on there government issue cots in every doorway in the city are our fault too. Guns dont kill people, people kill people. Regaurdless of where the guns came from, it was still a candian strokin the trigger.
     
  3. narlus

    narlus Eastcoast Softcore
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 25
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2001
    Messages:
    24,658
    Location:
    behind the viewfinder
    it was a 'murican draft dodger.
     
  4. Westy

    Westy the teste

    Rep/Likes:
    448 / 2,908
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Messages:
    36,189
    Location:
    Sleazattle
    Why would they go to Canada, that place is real drafty.
     
  5. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 4
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    9,890
    Location:
    Hypernormality
    Guns don't kill people, people kill people. What a great phrase.

    However to follow it's logic can we then say weapons don't kill people, people kill people?

    So what about WMD don't kill people, people kill people?

    It's clearly a good idea to stop the tool which allows such destructive behaviour into society. Hence the war on drugs, blood/alcohol level laws, regulations on tobbacco advertising and so on.

    What I fail to see is why regular people need practically unlimited access to firearms and handguns especially in a society where their use as weapons is banned, other than to stroke the deluded egos of rednecks and people with status issues.

    The US has a problem with guns. The liberal gun control over basically the entire history of the US has lead to a huge volume of illegal weapons floating around.
     
  6. The Amish

    The Amish Dumber than N8

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    645
    Your starting to get it. Take a way my gun, I'll stab you with a knife, take away my knife, I'll hang you from a tree, take away my rope, I'll kick your skull in with my feet. What are you gonna do saw 'em off. POint is if I want to kill you I'm gonna kill you.

    BTW WMD'S dont work unless someone pushes the button
     
  7. jaydee

    jaydee Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    Victoria BC
    I'm not as evangelistic as Changleen on the gun issue, but.....
    If you decide to kill me by kicking my skull in, there's a good chance I won't be the one who ends up dead. It takes some skill and some strength and even some courage to try to do someone in unarmed. And you could even think about it and change your mind while doing it. A little late for some cowardly loser to smarten up and change his mind after the trigger's been pulled. There's a trend among wannabe gangbangers in Canada to carry guns and wave them around and shoot stuff when they get all excited because they think it makes them appear tough and dangerous. I figure, drop the gun and we'll see what kind of tough you really are.
     
  8. lonewolfe

    lonewolfe Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 0
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    411
    Location:
    Bay Area
    Watch out for those Canadians, they are cold blooded killers. They'll be target practicing at Whistler before you know it! :rolleyes:
     
  9. jaydee

    jaydee Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    Victoria BC
    You wouldn't need much sharpshooting skill there. You couldn't even shoot straight up in the air without hitting 3or 4 criminal lawyers, 7 immigration lawyers, a couple of orthopedic surgeons, at least one movie star, and 4000 Japanese tourists posing with snowboards.
     
  10. lonewolfe

    lonewolfe Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 0
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    411
    Location:
    Bay Area
    Hey, Walmart is having an after Chistmas Sale and all ammo is 60% off. Load up the Easy Rider Gun Rack and let's go!!!!
     
  11. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 4
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    9,890
    Location:
    Hypernormality
    So basically you're a violent asshole? :nopity:
     
  12. lonewolfe

    lonewolfe Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 0
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    411
    Location:
    Bay Area
    Nope, a sarcastic asshole.

    Dude, I mean really, how many violent Canadians do you know? I don't know any. Obviously, there was some violence in Toronto but who knows who they were. Americans for all I know. I have not been following the news on that one.
     
  13. The Amish

    The Amish Dumber than N8

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    645
    Yea, I've never met a violent canadian and I go a bit. Once I met a pair of hottie schools teachers in a bar after a show and they gave me a pretty rough education but I enjoyed it so I guess that doesn't count
     
  14. narlus

    narlus Eastcoast Softcore
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 25
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2001
    Messages:
    24,658
    Location:
    behind the viewfinder
    rough trade, eh? were they pre-op?
     
  15. Ridemonkey

    Ridemonkey This is not an active account

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    4,109
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    "Toronto: Canada's most violent city?"

    Well duh. It's the country's largest city by far.

    But compare the 52 annual shooting deaths to the 100's in American cities of the same size for a little perspective. I think I recall hearing NYC had 1000+ this year for example...and per capita NYC isn't bad compared to many other US cities.

    Gotta love the media taking the ball and running with it. It was a horrible tragedy, but also an isolated incident...not a pandemic sweeping the nation as Fox News would love to have you believe.
     
  16. slein

    slein Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    CANADA
    CBC News said that TO is apparently as populous as Detroit and Houston. The gun-murder (or murder-gun) rate for the same period in Detroit was well over three-hundred.

    The perps were youths/teenagers... and they may have grown up in the violent slums in TO. I say give kids opportunity should they come from a family on the margins - thesingle parent working two jobs etc. Youth activists were preaching for continuous police presence in the neighbourhoods where these hoodlums run their biz. The city should go a little further and show more interest there.

    In Canada's fourth-largest metropolitan area, there has been ten gun-related murders this year. I bet that didn't make Fox. In 2004, there were more murders by stabbing than by shooting: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/legal01.htm.

    The other real tragedy was the innocent bystander that was killed. Shoulda been a gang member.