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Toshi's thread

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
I'm starting to second guess this bariatric surgery plan of mine.


Go to 1:00:55 in if the embed starts you at the beginning. Watch for about 3 minutes or so until about 1:03:27.

<checks watch, waits for you all to watch it>

It is an interview with a medical doctor from Toronto, whose research is focused on the hormonal underpinnings to weight gain and loss. His framework really speaks to me, because the issue clearly isn't of physics, of calories in and calories out as that explanation totally ignores the body's own self-regulation system. (The first hour of this video has much on that, as well as some ad shilling by the presenter dude for crap like tape to put on one's mouth while sleeping--wtf?)

Anyway, if you didn't watch that short clip the gist of it is that he explains the mechanism behind the quick and drastic changes in insulin resistance with gastric bypass by saying it kicks one into a months-long essentially fasting state. On an intellectual level this is compelling--I've posted links to papers above where authors note that this effect kicks in on the order of days from surgery, and that it may involve this or that pathway, but I haven't seen a coherent explanation for why it happens.

If I can get this effect through intermittent fasting as he proposes (and does a good job of explaning, imo) then I will hold off on more drastic, irreversible measures. Iteration 1 in this experiment of mine is of fasting from 6 PM until 12 noon the following day, combined with a reasonably low carb diet a la The Perfect Health Diet.

Stay tuned.
 
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Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
And like that I've canceled my appointments for the psych eval, the bariatric nutrition class, and the hepatology/NAFLD clinic. Plans to be cut are officially on hold.

(Impulsive behavior is something that I would have minimized at the psych eval for sure! :D )

Why? The sense of having a choice about this, again harkening back to that control bit from earlier life (me wrestling at 135 lbs and fighting food, my sister with her bulimia).

I am a serious skeptic about calorie restriction approaches, and of the state of nutrition recommendations since the 1970s if not WWII. I am not a 12 step program candidate, if that makes sense. But I will respond to data as they congeal in my head, and this now makes sense to me.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
Limit calories.
Increase exercise.
Lose weight.

It's not rocket science.
Limit calories, lose bit of weight, have body think that it’s starving, body downregulates metabolic rate in response, ease up on calories, body returns to the weight set point it thought one should be at.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
If it were that simple how do you account for, say, this?


Cliffs Notes are that insulin sensitivity is increased by restricting eating to an 8 hour period of the day independent of weight loss.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673


$50 RTR from Costco. This thing is big! Same simple basic design as $20 smaller ones from Amazon but should be good for a laugh.



The used piano was delivered today, too.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673


$50 RTR from Costco. This thing is big! Same simple basic design as $20 smaller ones from Amazon but should be good for a laugh.
Well that didn't last long. Already boxed up again to go back to Costco. Due to no doubt a wiring error somewhere between the controller and the steering servo the right/left directions are reversed with respect to the controller.

Also its driving experience is the same as the $20 ones from Amazon that my kids and I have had in the past: controls are binary, maybe with the exception of the underpowered, reversed steering.

I'm sort of tempted to get this little bundle of awesomeness:



I can cosplay as gonefirefighting if I put a Cherokee body on it!
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673

Physical activity levels, measured in Metabolic Equivalent Task minutes per week (MET min/wk), were similar among e-bikers and cyclists (4463 vs. 4085). E-bikers reported significantly longer trip distances for both e-bike (9.4 km) and bicycle trips (8.4 km) compared to cyclists for bicycle trips (4.8 km), as well as longer daily travel distances for e-bike than cyclists for bicycle (8.0 vs. 5.3 km per person, per day, respectively). Travel-related activities of e-bikers who switched from cycling decreased by around 200 MET min/wk., while those switching from private motorized vehicle and public transport gained around 550 and 800 MET min/wk. respectively.
So those who switch from a regular bike to an e-bike get marginally lazier, but overall activity is increased due to those switching from cars, and because trip lengths are longer.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
5,055
1,084
If it were that simple how do you account for, say, this?


Cliffs Notes are that insulin sensitivity is increased by restricting eating to an 8 hour period of the day independent of weight loss.
I know some people who’ve had great luck with intermittent fasting.

My program of limited carbs, avoiding sugar and moderating beer intake (all on top of exercise) serves me well.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
Today is day 2 of intermittent fasting. I do get hungry around normal breakfast time but if that’s what it takes I’ll suck it up(, princess). On day 1 I logged about 2,300 calories and today I’ll come out to less than that, I project.

Resting metabolic rate and body composition tests up tomorrow! I’d have needed to fast for those anyway at 1 PM so it’s really no different.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
At the end of today’s ride my rear wheel felt quite wobbly. Turns out I have a bunch of loose spokes!

This is a DT 240 straight pull hub, new Sapim spokes, EX 511 rim built by hand just a few weeks ago. On the other hand, it is only 28 spokes because bike companies are stupid and spec such things, and the last few rides have had me + 35/40 lb kid + ~5 lb Mac Ride as load.

Golden Bike Shop will tension it back up, for free I imagine given how soon it has been since they built ‘em. I should be good to go for Friday’s planned ride (with Wednesday on a rented DH sled).
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
I watched through 10 minutes of that, but when he just said that weight loss is intake versus output that totally glosses over the issue.


Maintenance of a body weight at a level 10 percent or more below the initial weight was associated with a mean (±SD) reduction in total energy expenditure of 6±3 kcal per kilogram of fat-free mass per day in the subjects who had never been obese (P<0.001) and 8±5 kcal per kilogram per day in the obese subjects (P<0.001). Resting energy expenditure and nonresting energy expenditure each decreased 3 to 4 kcal per kilogram of fat-free mass per day in both groups of subjects. Maintenance of body weight at a level 10 percent above the usual weight was associated with an increase in total energy expenditure of 9±7 kcal per kilogram of fat-free mass per day in the subjects who had never been obese (P<0.001) and 8±4 kcal per kilogram per day in the obese subjects (P<0.001). The thermic effect of feeding and nonresting energy expenditure increased by approximately 1 to 2 and 8 to 9 kcal per kilogram of fat-free mass per day, respectively, after weight gain. These changes in energy expenditure were not related to the degree of adiposity or the sex of the subjects.
The body fights to get back to what it thinks is its set point. Lose some weight via diet alone and then your body dials back resting and nonresting energy use—then you’re cold, tired, and grumpy, and eat a bit more… and then that weight is back in a jiffy.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
I have found, as apparently @stoney has as well, that one can have a bonk-equivalent when eating a ketogenic diet.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
14,401
2,917
behind you, don't wait up.
I watched through 10 minutes of that, but when he just said that weight loss is intake versus output that totally glosses over the issue.

The body fights to get back to what it thinks is its set point. Lose some weight via diet alone and then your body dials back resting and nonresting energy use—then you’re cold, tired, and grumpy, and eat a bit more… and then that weight is back in a jiffy.

Limiting calories keeps you from gaining moar weight, you have to burn off the extra pounds at this stage.
You could be on almost ANY type of diet. Shit, have cheetos and salted butter 4x a day. If you eat 4,000 calories a day, but exercise enough to burn 5,000 calories a day you will lose weight. You may also develop heart disease, but you'll lose weight.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
You could be on almost ANY type of diet. Shit, have cheetos and salted butter 4x a day. If you eat 4,000 calories a day, but exercise enough to burn 5,000 calories a day you will lose weight. You may also develop heart disease, but you'll lose weight.
That’ll work initially, but then the body will adjust to absorb more of the nutrients in said 4,000 nominal calories, and it will simultaneously turn down the wick on metabolic rate to burn less energy. If one is very persistent and eats 1,200 calories per day for months as did @eric strt6 then yes, that’ll work at least at 6 months, but in general it is a self-defeating approach because metabolism isn’t static and responds to change itself.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
13,949
1,317
Colorado
I have found, as apparently @stoney has as well, that one can have a bonk-equivalent when eating a ketogenic diet.
Talked to my nutritionist about it. It is inherent with the diet to setup for bonk. However, you need to change your intake to somewhat constant - nuts and other high fat density foods throughout your ride, especially during climbs. If I don't, I blow up at about 3 hours. If I do eat some food, I make it about 4.5 hours. I should be able to make it much longer with better consumption. She also thinks I fucked up by not consuming enough salt.

I also only eat 20 carbs per day - that is an extreme end of the keto diet. 40-50 carbs/day is still low but reasonable to lose weight.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
At the car wash now. Some dude is just casually vacuuming out his Lamborghini Gallardo
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
That’ll work initially, but then the body will adjust to absorb more of the nutrients in said 4,000 nominal calories, and it will simultaneously turn down the wick on metabolic rate to burn less energy. If one is very persistent and eats 1,200 calories per day for months as did @eric strt6 then yes, that’ll work at least at 6 months, but in general it is a self-defeating approach because metabolism isn’t static and responds to change itself.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
From said video. This is of Biggest Loser contestants who lost a tremendous amount of weight by week 30. See how downregulated their metabolisms became... and then they regain the weight.

74731260-05EB-4A5D-A0CF-FA085F2DC20B.png


That’s a change of 500, 750, 1000+ calories per day. That’s what I’m aiming to avoid with intermittent fasting.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
I ordered his book on fasting and will read it before trying anything longer than 18 hour fasts (or, as will be the case tomorrow due to scheduling of tests, ~21 hours). But from what he showed regarding longer fasts that seems like the way to go to burn off a ton of fat. Ok, not quite a literal ton.

:D


Edit: a possible plan to work up to an extended fast: https://medium.com/@drstephanie/the-complete-guide-to-short-long-term-fasting-3748f296dfb7 . I’m already starting with 6 feeding/18 fasting to begin with so could jump ahead a bit. Will supplement with knowledge from Fung’s book once that arrives soon.

Edit 2: if one ignores the plug for their own particular fasting-like diet regimen this has a ton of useful info especially regarding the science of it all: https://lifeapps.io/fasting/what-to-expect-on-a-5-day-prolonged-fast/
 
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jstuhlman

We noticed.
Dec 3, 2009
9,209
4,020
Cackalacka du Nord
dammit toshi...your thread makes me thankful i'm a skinny white guy with a stupid fast metabolism. i've never given a thought to what/when/how i eat or drink. since adulthood, no matter what i do/how much i do or don't eat and drink/how much i do or don't exercise, i fluctuate between 155 and 165 @6'1". granted, i do eat a fairly balanced diet, but i drink a lot of beer and eat a lot of crap late at night fairly regularly. exercise...recently maybe one decent bile ride every 7-10 days.
 

CBJ

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2002
10,879
1,215
Copenhagen, Denmark
dammit toshi...your thread makes me thankful i'm a skinny white guy with a stupid fast metabolism. i've never given a thought to what/when/how i eat or drink. since adulthood, no matter what i do/how much i do or don't eat and drink/how much i do or don't exercise, i fluctuate between 155 and 165 @6'1". granted, i do eat a fairly balanced diet, but i drink a lot of beer and eat a lot of crap late at night fairly regularly. exercise...recently maybe one decent bile ride every 7-10 days.
I am in the same boat but I can see the effect from eating a healthy diet makes a big difference and avoiding the snacks but to me its also a long game where you need to take your time.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
dammit toshi...your thread makes me thankful i'm a skinny white guy with a stupid fast metabolism. i've never given a thought to what/when/how i eat or drink. since adulthood, no matter what i do/how much i do or don't eat and drink/how much i do or don't exercise, i fluctuate between 155 and 165 @6'1". granted, i do eat a fairly balanced diet, but i drink a lot of beer and eat a lot of crap late at night fairly regularly. exercise...recently maybe one decent bile ride every 7-10 days.
Part of this is genetic. (And part of it is likely learned behaviors passed down from parents.)

My dad has always been fat since the 1990s or so if not earlier. He’s made some small changes up and down over the years but the trend has been of getting fatter and fatter. Now he’s really quite fat indeed, and, as I posted about with trying to play racquetball with him, this limits his quality of life, IMO.

My sister is also fat. I don’t think she’s made as much of an effort as me to stay active and that certainly compounds things (working a ton of hours + two kids, one autistic makes her life more complicated than mine for sure).

Meanwhile, all along my mother has been eating the same food as us as we grew up and has stayed the same size throughout my memory. She never exercises, as far as I can tell—closest to that is walking around their grounds and tending to the garden.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
26,935
3,435
Riding the baggage carousel.
A close second would go to the 4Runner driver seen on I-70 later today with every last item from the ARB catalog installed on his rig. RTT, jerry can holder and full bumpers, spare apparently held on the back with tie downs for quick mid-race access (?), snorkel.
Did it also have a tent on top? How will people know this person is Exciting Outdoor Adventure Person® without the tent?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
Did it also have a tent on top? How will people know this person is Exciting Outdoor Adventure Person® without the tent?
Yup. RTT = roof top tent. Apparently this is standard lingo in hardcore urban-commuting circles now.
 

SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
47,776
2,360
In a van.... down by the river
Oh, that’s your piano in that weird non-black color. Who convinced you to go with that? :D
It sounded very good, as confirmed by multiple piano teachers in our area. My wife had been simmering for awhile on a baby grand... so this fit the bill. And the price tag. :D

I realize for MOST people, the piano is simply a house decoration... so I suppose we may have a little trouble selling it when the time comes.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
Testing day!

DEXA:
Calculated BMI of 38.3.
30.5% overall body fat.
79,465 g lean mass.
Android fat 36.1%, gynoid fat 26.8% (ratio 1.35).
RMR cart:

2,118 Kcal/day resting energy expenditure.
Of that at the time of my test (19 hr fasting) 121 cal from burning carbohydrate, 2,000 cal from burning fat. Yes, there are 3 phantom calories. Rounding in the software?
RQ 0.72 overall.
My take:

I am fat: 30.5% body fat objectively. But I am significantly less fat than would be expected by my BMI. (A calculation I found on Livestrong would pin me at 40% body fat based on gender and BMI!) My REE is higher than 14 years ago. Both of these are explained because my lean mass is a solid 175 lbs.

I have more visceral fat than fat overall. This is typical for men and is bad in terms of heart disease risk, etc.

So based off of this I do have a lot of fat to lose (visceral especially), but this also explains why I don’t look like most people with 38-40 BMIs. I am very fat-less fat using the skinny-fat analogy.

If fasting and insulin lowering do as they are supposed to—and that I was burning almost all fat at the 19 hour fasting point at which I was testing is very reassuring!—then I should be able to dispatch my visceral fat.

Onwards and downwards.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
26B566B0-6E1D-49BB-9072-4B41D65DF896.jpeg


The glass roof on the Model 3 really does lead to some impressive solar gain. This is after about 30 minutes sitting in direct sun at about 89 degrees F ambient.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673


I’ve posted before about the 2020 Lincoln Aviator (Plug-in) Hybrid. In another, earlier iteration of me I would have thought it to be right up my alley. It’s back in the news as its final power and torque specs have been released:

494 hp, 630 ft-lbs torque. That’s like, whoa.

But there are several catches.

First, the electric motor is a 101 hp unit pushed along by electrons flowing from a 13.6 kWh pack. The pack size isn’t bad, actually—the wife’s PacHy gets about 30 real-world EV miles from 12.x effective kWh (16 kWh nominal but not all used a la Volt). What is bad is that it is 101 hp as compared to total system output of 494 hp: one must choose between low performance but green or kind of ridiculous high performance with gas.

Second, it is not cheap. It’d probably depreciate $1.5k/mo to start. I’ve learned I don’t have a stomach for that.

Third, I bet I’d be unsatisfied with its road noise, a long-running neurosis of mine among many.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673


Jaguar is having trouble moving metal. Look at these Cadillac XLR-esque discounts!

Base I-Pace is $69,500. Take $15k off that per the ad and we’re at $54,500. Take $7.5k Fed and $5k CO and we are at $42k even, albeit with TTL on $54.5k.

That said I have no interest in an I-Pace. Range sucks for my ski season use, don’t like the styling, don’t like the busy interior. If I do anything with my fleet the next year or so it’ll be to sell the Tesla outright if I can do it for a reasonable price (as in at a monthly cost after taxes accounted for equivalent or less than the Volvo’s lease).
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,877
1,673
Can you tell I’m at home and bored? Wife is off meeting a friend to talk about kids and schooling. I’m left to tend to the asleep kids. I guess I could start watching Blade Runner 2049.

This popped back in my YouTube feed although I’d seen it before. Still just as mind blowing.