Toshi's thread
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@6thElement Was the rock you were talking about either the optional line at 1:03 or the one on the right of the trail at 1:08?
Neither of those I think.
Now almost 70 hours into my 138ish hour fast. Halfway there!
Took a bath with Epsom salts last night and woke up feeling relaxed and generally quite good.
The feeling of being wired, as if I'd taken a caffeine pill, has gone away. (Curiously yesterday my resting heart rate was 51 bpm whereas today, feeling more relaxed, it's 56 bpm.)
Took a bath with Epsom salts last night and woke up feeling relaxed and generally quite good.
The feeling of being wired, as if I'd taken a caffeine pill, has gone away. (Curiously yesterday my resting heart rate was 51 bpm whereas today, feeling more relaxed, it's 56 bpm.)
It's like deja vu...
Nom nom nom.What, you're not going to post about eating more apple crisp here, too?
Next thing to try to add into my regimen will be to increase the proportion of fatty meats.
Various links outlining some potential pros and cons, noting that this has much less research behind it except in that it is ketogenic:
I'm not going to do something super restrictive like the first link's two ribeyes per day and nothing else plan, but in general I'll try to work in more fatty meats in the context of a nonrestrictive (choice, not time) diet with a low-ish carb tilt.
Various links outlining some potential pros and cons, noting that this has much less research behind it except in that it is ketogenic:
Carnivore Diet: Is It Healthier To Eat Only Meat and No Plants? - Ryan Munsey
My 30-Day Experiment on the Carnivore Diet: Challenging the paradigms of nutrition with an all meat and no plants, fruits, or vegetables approach.
ryanmunsey.com
Carnivore Diet Overview: Is This Diet Really Healthy? | Chris Kresser
Is the carnivore diet really healthy, and does it work? Read on for my take on the all-meat trend.
chriskresser.com
The Carnivore Diet: A Beefy Leap of Faith
You may be familiar with the carnivore diet through Mikhaila Peterson, daughter of best-selling author and professor of psychology Jordan B. Peterson. In her first YouTube video, she narrates a long history of health issues: juvenile arthritis, chronic depression, hypomania, chronic fatigue...
www.mcgill.ca
I'm not going to do something super restrictive like the first link's two ribeyes per day and nothing else plan, but in general I'll try to work in more fatty meats in the context of a nonrestrictive (choice, not time) diet with a low-ish carb tilt.
40 MPH Mantis electric scooter review: Crazy fun on FluidFreeRides' new ride
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electrek.co
For later reference. 2000W! 40 mph. 265 lb load rating, too. (I just weighed in at 247.x, for the record. Who knew not eating anything for an extended period of time would make one lose weight?!)
I'll dig it up. They use a butcher, package it into normal cuts. We split a half with the neighbors across the street and still both have a ton left. We did grassfed because we like the taste more, though it is more expensive. Most do pickup because it's like 250# of meat
On biohacking with an emphasis on dietary versus various kinds of serum lipids.
My takeaways from this video, which will likely be tedious unless this is of particular interest:
- LDL per se has minimal effect on cardiovascular risk, and it is very influenced by weight (lose weight and LDLs go up) and diet (go all carb and lean protein and LDL goes down). It’s not a good biomarker to follow.
- low cardiovascular risk pattern is seen with high HDL and low trigylcerides
- dovetailing into this is that triglycerides go down markedly (at least in this one guy) after fasting for at least 12 hours
- Lp(a) is a particle associated with bad cardiovascular outcomes, and it shows a strong negative correlation with dietary fat
This reinforces the benefit of fasting, and also reinforces that a lot of conventional wisdom that I was taught is not correct, particularly with regard to LDL. It also suggests a high fat diet is optimal.
About 94 hours in.
For a change, not feeling super great right now. Had some postural hypotension when getting up from squatting with my 4 year old on the playground. I have been slacking on my water intake today, so am trying to catch up by pounding 48 oz of water.
If I don’t feel back to baseline by what would be dinner time I’ll break my fast at 96 hours.
Update: felt fine after all that water. Continuing the fast.
For a change, not feeling super great right now. Had some postural hypotension when getting up from squatting with my 4 year old on the playground. I have been slacking on my water intake today, so am trying to catch up by pounding 48 oz of water.
If I don’t feel back to baseline by what would be dinner time I’ll break my fast at 96 hours.
Update: felt fine after all that water. Continuing the fast.
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I just ordered a “small box” from Butcher Box. Ribeyes and one top sirloin just to see the difference. Grass fed and all that. Also included some of their bacon, reputed to be quite good, and some chicken breasts.
Exclusive: 3-Wheeled Aptera Reboots as World’s Most Efficient Electric Car
1,600 km per charge promised by the team that created a lightweight two-seat EV a decade ago
spectrum.ieee.org
Very much want. I was all hot and bothered about the Aptera 2e (and disappointed when the company liquidated) so seeing this revival is very welcome news. I may invest a bit in the company even–the article mentions that they're pursuing such a strategy of crowdfunding.
Some data, noting the real data dump will come in a few months when I get RMR and body composition retested:
From Aug 10 to Aug 25 I did 18:6 intermittent fasting, with a few 24 and 25 hour days here and there. I dropped 7 lbs over this period, so just about 0.5 lb per day.
From after dinner on August 25 to after dinner-time on August 29 I did an extended fast. Over these 4 days I dropped 5 lbs, so 1.25 lb per day.
This is probably a bit of diuresis/lost water weight, but from the physics of it it's not too implausible: I probably burn close to 3000 calories on an average day (as my RMR is 2118 cal/day + activities + potential further bump during fasting by the norepi and cortisol). 3500 calories in a pound of fat, and there you go.
From Aug 10 to Aug 25 I did 18:6 intermittent fasting, with a few 24 and 25 hour days here and there. I dropped 7 lbs over this period, so just about 0.5 lb per day.
From after dinner on August 25 to after dinner-time on August 29 I did an extended fast. Over these 4 days I dropped 5 lbs, so 1.25 lb per day.
This is probably a bit of diuresis/lost water weight, but from the physics of it it's not too implausible: I probably burn close to 3000 calories on an average day (as my RMR is 2118 cal/day + activities + potential further bump during fasting by the norepi and cortisol). 3500 calories in a pound of fat, and there you go.
I would think that engine in a motorcycle would be a lot scarier/challenging.
I've been following your posts somewhat and its been interesting. I too need to lose weight and recently its hit me that I actually need to proactively do something about; first I'm cutting beer intake during the week.
I'm considering intermittent fasting, as one thing I'm guilty of is eating too late at night. One question I have regarding your daily fasting, where does your energy come from? I know that if I don't eat or have a beer before a ride, I will feel like I'm dying later on and just feel drained during the ride. Is that just something in my head or is it real? How have you been dealing with it, even just at work? Do you feel drained?
Did you see how violently it switches between drifting and catching? For a non Nicky Hayden backing it in type I think a motorcycle would be much easier to manage.
Fasting works much better when one is at least lowish carbs. (What I mean by that: true low carbs is in the region of 35 or less grams per day. Stoney does 25. Some do even lower yet, which is quite restrictive indeed. I haven't been counting but am certainly below 100 typically, maybe even 80 or less.) When that condition is true and you're already eating high fats then it's easier for your body to switch to using body fat, aka ketosis.
When one switches over depends on initial diet and how adapted to fat burning one's body is. That's why I was so psyched that I was burning 94% fat 6% carbs at my 19 hours fasting resting metabolic rate test a few weeks ago--I was in ketosis at 19 hours.
So the answer is twofold:
1) if you're still carb-adapted then your energy will initially come from ample glycogen stores. Once those run out then yes, you will feel low energy/bonked.
2) if you're more fat-adapted via diet then you will still burn off your glycogen (but you'll have less of that and it'll happen sooner) and then you'll more seamlessly switch over to ketosis, at which point your energy is relatively constant and you feel fine, as I did through about hour 90 of my extended fast.
@canadmos did you watch this when I posted it a while back? (Did I post it? Hmm.)
It's 36 minutes but imo will be well worth your time. It is by a Toronto nephrologist who is a big proponent of fasting, and it explains why the simplistic "calories in calories out" notion is just wrong, and backs it up with evidence cited from papers.
It's 36 minutes but imo will be well worth your time. It is by a Toronto nephrologist who is a big proponent of fasting, and it explains why the simplistic "calories in calories out" notion is just wrong, and backs it up with evidence cited from papers.
bringing my shitposting over here!
So you're doing 5:2? 500 calories on those 2 days, right? Have you adjusted your diet otherwise? Do you shoot for a particular balance of macros, or just whatever you feel like?
I definitely feel a little lightheaded around 10-12am during a fasting day...that usually goes away after a few hours.
I definitely recommend not riding during a fast, though it is possible. I get migraines if I push too far (maybe hypoglycemia?) so I stick with exercise during non fast days.
On the list of things to watch, thanks.
I've been consistently doing 5:2 since Jan, I stick with 600 calories on fasting days (so I suppose not a true fast). I usually have two black espressos, a chobani yogurt, a small salad of lettuce and cut veggies with balsamic vinegar as dressing and chick peas or chicken for protein, then at dinner is usually cut veggies and hummus or something like a cucumber with salt and pepper if I want to push it.
Diet otherwise is "whatever I fucking want", which was my goal with IF. I did not want to give up beer nor any of the other good things I love. If I am gunning for a particular target (like 190lb) then I might try and go low carb, but again my goal was minimal lifestyle change. I have noticed that consistent fasting has "shrunk" my stomach, in that when I do eat, I eat less (less seconds, too), and then my appetite is more consistent. I noticed that before I'd be ABSOLUTELY STARVING by noon, now if I miss a meal I'm fine.
Yes. Water is ok and certainly recommended if going more than 18 hours. But no food, nothing in your coffee or tea other than coffee or tea proper, no fish oil pills or other oily capsule.
For my extended fast I was doing water + sea salt + soaking myself in Epsom salts once (in a bath--you can absorb magnesium via your skin apparently). I should have also been doing potassium supplementation with Nu-salt.
I'm with you. I do love my kare pan and Thai food, and will work around those things instead of being militant. In general I aim for minimizing carbs, though, with the deviations intentional, because I like them.
@canadmos you should check out this book, from your library or Amazon:
Lays out why, how, has some anecdotes and cites papers, etc. Also has some nice looking low carb recipes at the end.
The Complete Guide to Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended Fasting: Dr. Jason Fung, Jimmy Moore: 9781628600018: Amazon.com: Gateway
The Complete Guide to Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended Fasting [Dr. Jason Fung, Jimmy Moore] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Thousands of books have been written about the latest and greatest diets that will help people lose weight...
smile.amazon.com
Lays out why, how, has some anecdotes and cites papers, etc. Also has some nice looking low carb recipes at the end.
Going to buy the paper version.
Kind of funny, there are used versions on Amazon for sale, but are only a few cents cheaper than the new thing.
Derp, this also reminds me that I forgot to cancel my free Prime trial.
Toshi, considering you're "practically" a real doctor, what impact does this fasting have on your cognitive abilities?
I'd hate to think that you run any risk of misreading an xray while in a depleted state.
I'd hate to think that you run any risk of misreading an xray while in a depleted state.
There's solid evidence that it is helpful. Increases brain derived neurotrophic growth factor, in mouse models can stave off Huntington and Alzheimer diseases, etc.
Here's a paper I looked up today on exactly this topic:
For my later watching re carnivore:
Nose-to-Tail Carnivore Diet: Organ Meat, TMAO Implications, & Reaching Ketosis ft. Dr. Paul Saladino
Steak & eggs? Try liver, kidney, heart, & bone marrow. Here's why Dr. Paul Saladino specifically recommends a "nose-to-tail" carnivore diet over the traditional focus on muscle meat.
hvmn.com
Peak Carnivore: The Ironman Champ Who Only Eats Meat ft. Pete Jacobs
Throw beef in a slow cooker. Season with salt & bacon bits (hold the pepper). Consume. Race a triathlon. This is the life of the carnivore Ironman champ: Pete Jacobs.
hvmn.com
So I haven't quite figured out the rhythm on this myself, but I will offer my own comment-- when I was starting out, I would occasionally get dizzy and lightheaded, and certainly not quite "all there". As I got used to a fast, it got quite a bit easier. There are times I feel "hungry" and totally cognizant and ready to go, but there is still some fuzz occasionally. I don't think it's nearly bad enough to misread a chart, but there are occasions where I wish I had a little sugar in my system to keep the clouds away. It probably depends on the person and the duration of the fast.
Long term effects are real, but the shorter term "I haven't eaten in 18 hours, piss off" is what I'm talking about.