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Toshi's thread

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,091
5,938
Paid for with a bunch of tax payer monies wasn't it? Didn't Blue Origin get 8 billion or so recently?...
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,649
3,844
Finally, sort of progress

"Your [Denver HELOC] was given the ok to close. Someone from the title company should be reaching out to you with 7-10 days to schedule your signing. Should you have any questions, please let me know. Thank you."
Closing on the Denver HELOC tentatively scheduled a week from today, at my house.

So about 11 weeks from end to end, and that's with me having all my documents together right at the outset, just waiting on them.

Still worth it for a great rate (0 fees, variable with floor at 2.24%, prime rate - 1.01% which equals 2.24% at this point).
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
34,447
8,782
Riding the baggage carousel.


35.5-kWh lithium-ion battery pack and a 144-hp front-mounted electric motor.
:disgust1:
 
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Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,649
3,844

It had better be cheap with that range else it'll flop hard in this era.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,091
5,938
Generic SUV blob mode engaged.
Just watched a Carwow video earlier where he showed his mom 3 "cheap" and 3 "expensive electric cars for her to choose one.

That Mazda reminds me of the Renault and Vauxhall in that video, 150ish real life range....
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,649
3,844
Called PennyMac today to get a handle on rates. Spoke to Adam (520-428-2764), who is paid on commission so I'll be a good guy and call him back if PennyMac is the way I go. He relayed that PennyMac these days isn't doing any jumbo transactions. (They will go up to the county limit if it's over the general conforming limit, but Grand County, CO isn't such a county. These are "oversize", not jumbo.)

So that'd crimp flexibility a bit to be stuck to the conforming limit but could potentially be workable what with subordination of the current Tabernash HELOC via Key to them.

For reference, at the conforming limit in March 2021 they'd quoted me 29 years fixed, 2.500%, 1 point but also ~1 point in lender credits.

With that in mind, current base rates/APR for conforming:

30 years: 2.500%/2.625%, or 2.75%/2.82%.
29 years: 2.625%/2.805%, with that gap between nominal rate and APR constituting about 1.8 points. Working backwards from that the 30 year rates appear to be at very roughly 1.25 and 1 points.

Adam did let slide that he has flexibility in offering lender credits to offset these points that are in the base rates, so in reality this would be lower with a little pressure applied/by virtue of being a current PennyMac debtor. Overall it's disappointing that they're not doing jumbos as that makes everything messier, but rates are still good in the grand scheme for sure.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,649
3,844
Screen Shot 2021-07-23 at 7.11.51 PM.png


So this is from my Key/Tabernash HELOC's statement.

Never having had a HELOC before, the way I parse this from my reading:

- if I pay the HELOC down to $0 before this date the whole thing will go poof, numerator and denominator alike disappearing from my credit utilization/available credit

- if I pay it down to non-$0 but before the draw period end date then it'll be available credit to re-draw upon

This is relevant because in my shell games I was planning on leaving ~$50k undrawn on the new Denver house HELOC as a buffer before I can replete my taxable account.

But if I grok this correctly then I don't need to do so and should draw the Denver HELOC completely once it closes, using $XXk for the various and sundry mountain house expenses and then the whole rest towards paying down the bad-rate Tabernash HELOC… because as a last-resort emergency fund of sorts the Tabernash HELOC will then have that amount available to draw upon.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery to the HELOC-use naïf?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,649
3,844
Did a bunch more math that I'll spare y'all from, but with these rates in mind I think this is my final—for now—plan. So many moving parts!

August 2021: Draw Denver HELOC completely as soon as it closes and is accessible, which after accounting for the actual Tabernash house work outstanding (half of deck, swallow mitigation still left to pay for) should leave enough to pay down the current, bad-rate Tabernash HELOC balance to just above $20k.

November 2021: Pay off that remainder on the bad-rate Tabernash HELOC this fall instead of replenishing my taxable account, assuming any non-negligible amount of rental income has materialized by then to stabilize month to month costs. Tabernash HELOC will go away then.

September 2021-January 2022: Before or after paying off the Tabernash HELOC (before requiring subordination, which sounds like a pain in the ass, so possibly afterwards) refinance the conforming part of the Tabernash debt as close to 2.500% fixed as possible since the PennyMac conversation today indicates that should be possible.

Winter 2022: Once refinanced and the current Key bad-rate Tabernash HELOC gone, then go through this same 11 week process to get a new hopefully also ~2.24% HELOC through Third Federal on the Tabernash place, to < 80% LTV so probably around $105k limit or so. (Once a year has gone by on the Denver HELOC also possibly extend its limit if the underwriters are game, since at the current insane Denver house valuation I'll only be at 64% LTV between the mortgage and the HELOC!)

May 2023?: Keep this new good-rate credit line around, undrawn, as a security blanket since I won't have replenished the taxable account as above. Replenish said taxable account via next few twice-yearly bonus cycles + hopefully some solid rental income to hasten this process.

Summer 2023: Once taxable properly plumped back up to a comfortable amount and no fires need to be put out, then draw on this hypothetical new good-rate Tabernash line of credit to do as many of the big remodeling projects planned as that much money will buy (creating a master suite from the big open loft area, walling off a bedroom or possibly two even in the basement and changing the weird sauna area not-quite-bath into another full bath there, kitchen redo—will not be able to make it through the whole list here, clearly).

By this point hopefully the rental business from the Tabernash place will be humming away nicely, plus either by this point or soon thereafter the 403(b) loan will be paid back and our student loans will be paid off. So then the (lovely low rate!) debt shall start melting off nicely if all goes to plan. If the rental business proves to be a dud then perhaps we never remodel the place, and that'd be fine as well.

Whew.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,649
3,844
Note to self:

Join Mustang Club of America at least 90 days before finalizing a F-150 Lightning transaction. X Plan eligibility!

 

SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
55,585
6,607
In a van.... down by the river
Did a bunch more math that I'll spare y'all from, but with these rates in mind I think this is my final—for now—plan. So many moving parts!

August 2021: Draw Denver HELOC completely as soon as it closes and is accessible, which after accounting for the actual Tabernash house work outstanding (half of deck, swallow mitigation still left to pay for) should leave enough to pay down the current, bad-rate Tabernash HELOC balance to just above $20k.

November 2021: Pay off that remainder on the bad-rate Tabernash HELOC this fall instead of replenishing my taxable account, assuming any non-negligible amount of rental income has materialized by then to stabilize month to month costs. Tabernash HELOC will go away then.

September 2021-January 2022: Before or after paying off the Tabernash HELOC (before requiring subordination, which sounds like a pain in the ass, so possibly afterwards) refinance the conforming part of the Tabernash debt as close to 2.500% fixed as possible since the PennyMac conversation today indicates that should be possible.

Winter 2022: Once refinanced and the current Key bad-rate Tabernash HELOC gone, then go through this same 11 week process to get a new hopefully also ~2.24% HELOC through Third Federal on the Tabernash place, to < 80% LTV so probably around $105k limit or so. (Once a year has gone by on the Denver HELOC also possibly extend its limit if the underwriters are game, since at the current insane Denver house valuation I'll only be at 64% LTV between the mortgage and the HELOC!)

May 2023?: Keep this new good-rate credit line around, undrawn, as a security blanket since I won't have replenished the taxable account as above. Replenish said taxable account via next few twice-yearly bonus cycles + hopefully some solid rental income to hasten this process.

Summer 2023: Once taxable properly plumped back up to a comfortable amount and no fires need to be put out, then draw on this hypothetical new good-rate Tabernash line of credit to do as many of the big remodeling projects planned as that much money will buy (creating a master suite from the big open loft area, walling off a bedroom or possibly two even in the basement and changing the weird sauna area not-quite-bath into another full bath there, kitchen redo—will not be able to make it through the whole list here, clearly).

By this point hopefully the rental business from the Tabernash place will be humming away nicely, plus either by this point or soon thereafter the 403(b) loan will be paid back and our student loans will be paid off. So then the (lovely low rate!) debt shall start melting off nicely if all goes to plan. If the rental business proves to be a dud then perhaps we never remodel the place, and that'd be fine as well.

Whew.
Easier:

2023September$1,727.25$1,725.52$1.73$0.00

:homer:
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
34,447
8,782
Riding the baggage carousel.
I agree it's been pretty slow. But I'm hopeful still, clone wars didn't exactly wow me right out of the gate either, and there is still huge amounts of potential story. The episodes with Hera and Chopper were neat.

Rhea Pearlman as Cid is fantastic.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,649
3,844
refinance the conforming part of the Tabernash debt as close to 2.500% fixed as possible since the PennyMac conversation today indicates that should be possible
Capture.PNG


This will be my goal. 2.500% flat, as low as possible costs. Posting here for posterity/reference when negotiating lender credits with PennyMac in the future.

For now I wait. Today is day 1 of the 3 day mandatory cool-off period with new debt after signing before it actually materializes. Can't do anything until Monday, even to call for an account #.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,649
3,844
Bankrate shows one doing better than this, so I'm still hopeful for perhaps 2.750% from PennyMac.

Capture 2.PNG


Got to hurry up and wait for the Denver HELOC to close then disburse then for Key to reflect the payment before I can go down that next rabbit hole, though. Another month yet, perhaps?
Called PennyMac today to get a handle on rates.
I put in a soft application with Ally to follow up on this rate. First it errored out because it was computing an 85% LTV based off of the $800k estimated valuation of the Tabernash house that I'd put in and the last reported balances on the Key mortgage and HELOC.

So I had to call them. And it turns out they have their own back end software that automatically comes up with valuations of the properties in question. My Tabernash house, per their software, is worth $980k and change.

With that in mind then I'd be far under 80% LTV even without paying down the Tabernash HELOC any more from where it currently stands.

Anyway, their software is having issues but the one rate that it was displaying for me at the moment for the jumbo, conventional (<< 80% LTV) refi at 30 years fixed was 2.875%/2.900% APR, $800 in points. I'll chat with the agent again Monday after they get their act together on the IT side and can show me the entire rate table. If they can go lower than that then that'd be the cleanest way forward for sure and would potentially let me do the big house work earlier yet, like next summer perhaps.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,649
3,844
On the phone with PennyMac again since once I get an itch to do something I want to do it.

First off, they confirmed that they will be able to refinance the first/conforming mortgage and subordinate the HELOC (i.e. leave it in place as second lien). The home valuation being so high apparently allows for this—the agent was surprised that this was permissible after he checked on this.

So that's good. Also good are rates. For context, here's what Bankrate is showing today for ZIP 80478, just under conforming limit, conventional, second house, single family residence, 0 points and the listed fees, 30 years fixed:

Screen Shot 2021-08-03 at 11.33.50 AM.png


With that as a backdrop I was initially quoted a 2.25% rate, 2.367% APR for 30 years fixed with these same assumptions. So things have dropped quite a bit! Points are unclear from this initial estimate in their system but that looks to my eye to be about $3,500 in fees/points, which again can be negotiated down/away to some extent.

:notbadobama:

The astute reader will then wonder what the rates on 15 year fixed refis on my Denver house might be in this environment (conforming, conventional, and also requiring subordination as an extra headache), noting one of my buddies' 15 year fixed 1.99% no fee refi recently. The answer is that Better and Sage are both advertising 1.75% fixed x 15 years, 0 fees at this time.

I'll tackle one thing at a time since my 2.125% rate is just fine, really, but money is still certainly very cheap all around!




Edit: proceeding forward with PennyMac on refinancing the conforming portion of the Tabernash debt. They're showing 2.375% now instead of 2.25% but hopefully that'll come back down, and the points be offset with lender credits.

I'm also having the loan officer at PennyMac simultaneously draw up a loan estimate for a cash-out-to-new-conforming-limit refi on my Denver house's mortgage.
 
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dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
6,646
1,745
It had better be cheap with that range else it'll flop hard in this era.
I don’t think this is aimed at the general American public. More range would be nice to have, but this would be a very good car for city dwellers that need a car. For the last year no trip we have done has exceeded 100 mi, fwiw.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
6,646
1,745
I’ve also seen the CX-30 around town and it’s fairly small. Sort of Subaru Crosstrek sized. Fwiw.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
44,825
10,480
Sleazattle
I don’t think this is aimed at the general American public. More range would be nice to have, but this would be a very good car for city dwellers that need a car. For the last year no trip we have done has exceeded 100 mi, fwiw.

I have always wondered why I don't see more EVs in Seattle. Most offer more than enough range and EVs align with the local mindset. Then while walking the dog yesterday I saw to people arguing about a parking spot. The majority of homes here do not have a driveway and rely on street parking, just finding a spot can be challenging at times not to mention near your home. Kind of hard to have a reliable way of charging your car when you can't always park in front of your house.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,649
3,844
And apart from the townhouse scrapes the houses are so old.

I was getting clothes out of the dryer in the basement of the MIL's house this morning and the gardener was working nearby with some small 2 stroke tool. Sounded like I was standing right next to him, because all that was in the way was a single pane wood framed window and a "wall" made of 2 x 4" framing, a single layer of individual boards (like a floor but on the wall), and the vinyl on the outside. Not a single tendril of insulation to be found.
 
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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
44,825
10,480
Sleazattle
And apart from the townhouse scrapes the houses are so old.

I was getting clothes out of the dryer in the basement of the MIL's house this morning and the gardener was working nearby with some small 2 stroke tool. Sounded like I was standing right next to him, because all that was in the way was a single pane wood framed window and a "wall"made of 2 x 4" framing, a single layer of individual boards (like a floor but on the wall), and the vinyl on the outside. Not a single tendril of insulation to be found.
My basement is like that but the finished part. of the house is a different story. Drywall placed over old lath and plaster is amazing for sound deadening. Windows were replaced with acoustic grade units sometime in the 90s.

Adding an EV charger could be very expensive as I only have a 100 amp service and a good chunk of the wiring is 110 years old. Would probably require a complete electrical retrofit of the house to be legal.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
6,646
1,745
I have always wondered why I don't see more EVs in Seattle. Most offer more than enough range and EVs align with the local mindset. Then while walking the dog yesterday I saw to people arguing about a parking spot. The majority of homes here do not have a driveway and rely on street parking, just finding a spot can be challenging at times not to mention near your home. Kind of hard to have a reliable way of charging your car when you can't always park in front of your house.
We have public ev street parking chargers in mtl. Pretty critical infrastructure if you are serious about making any kind of electric transition. I’d argue way more are needed. These are often in the vicinity of multi-unit housing.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
6,646
1,745
And apart from the townhouse scrapes the houses are so old.

I was getting clothes out of the dryer in the basement of the MIL's house this morning and the gardener was working nearby with some small 2 stroke tool. Sounded like I was standing right next to him, because all that was in the way was a single pane wood framed window and a "wall" made of 2 x 4" framing, a single layer of individual boards (like a floor but on the wall), and the vinyl on the outside. Not a single tendril of insulation to be found.
Haha. What is this insulation you speak of? My house is almost 100 years old. There is no insulation in the walls… not in any of the others built at this time either. Brick, wood sheathing, framing, lath, plaster. I think they started using insulation in the 40s and 50s here.