[WTGPhoben]

phoben, sweet shots (at least the ones toshi cross-linked). i'll be in Rome in a few months...what lens should i buy to maximize my photographic joy? at this point i've only got the 18-55mm kit lens, and a 50mm prime for my rebel xt.

I suppose it depends on the type of stuff you like to shoot. I was often trying to capture the immenseness and grandeur of things, and would have loved a fisheye. A lot of those big ancient buildings and such would look really ccool with the distortion and it would have saved me a lot of time pasting images together. I've only played with Toshi's sigma tho, so I can't really suggest a specific model.

The other thing that would be really helpful is a lens with IS type I, as there are lots of places where the light is not so good, but a flash is either useless or not allowed. I was using the canon 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS USM exclusively while I was there, and found myself regularly shooting ISO 800 at speeds of 1/15 or so. With IS this is totally reasonable, but without it you're just gonig to get garbage. If you want to upgrade your zoom, this lens is a pretty awesome all-purpose lens and it almost never comes off my camera. I find it makes especially nice images with a polarizer, but the 2-stop hit you take limits where you can use it effectively.

If it weren't for the light issue, I'd suggest the 70-200 f/4L USM as a nice addition too, but unless you plan on using it outside exclusively, you're going to have to hump around a tripod to make pictures that don't suck. If you have the $$, the 70-200 f/2.8L IS USM is the perfect range with all the features you need, but man is it pricey.

finally, get hoods for your lenses. I had a lot of trouble with nasty flare while shooting outside. I don't know if the smog had some effect, but it seemed that every time I had sky in a picture I had huge flare splotches that could have been avoided if I simply had a hood.

 

[narlus]

awesome, thanks for the info.

 

[Toshi]

yeah, one must be sneaky around the sistine chapel...

note security cameras at left of frame:

phoben, sweet shots (at least the ones toshi cross-linked). i'll be in Rome in a few months...what lens should i buy to maximize my photographic joy? at this point i've only got the 18-55mm kit lens, and a 50mm prime for my rebel xt.

i'd recommend something long. or wide. seriously, i find myself at 12mm or 135mm a good deal of the time. when i did my rome + munich trip i carried a 28/1.8 and a 70-200/4L, and both proved useful. the 28 would be largely redundant unless you really like shooting indoors without flash, but the 70-200mm f/4L is reasonably priced and quite sharp (or try that new 70-300? IS non-L one maybe?).

70-200 in action, in rome:

 

[Total Heckler]

yeah, one must be sneaky around the sistine chapel...

note security cameras at left of frame:

i'd recommend something long. or wide. seriously, i find myself at 12mm or 135mm a good deal of the time. when i did my rome + munich trip i carried a 28/1.8 and a 70-200/4L, and both proved useful. the 28 would be largely redundant unless you really like shooting indoors without flash, but the 70-200mm f/4L is reasonably priced and quite sharp (or try that new 70-300? IS non-L one maybe?).

I was there right before they started the restoration and then again right after they finished it. Its a pretty amazing place.

 

[narlus]

toshi, how'd you disguise yr DSLR? i think i took my photo in there w/ my crappy little and old olympus back in '99, and i got tutt-tutted.

there was also a no camera policy in St Vitus Cathedral (Prague), but after i saw so many tourists blatantly ignoring it, i put a column between myself and the nearest security guard and discreetly snapped a couple of pics.

so i got my year-end bonus, and i could swing either one of these lenses:

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM

or

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS USM Lens

they are both around a thousand bucks. i guess the obvious question is will i shoot more inside or outside.

 

[WTGPhoben]

toshi, how'd you disguise yr DSLR? i think i took my photo in there w/ my crappy little and old olympus back in '99, and i got tutt-tutted.

there was also a no camera policy in St Vitus Cathedral (Prague), but after i saw so many tourists blatantly ignoring it, i put a column between myself and the nearest security guard and discreetly snapped a couple of pics.

so i got my year-end bonus, and i could swing either one of these lenses:

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM

or

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS USM Lens

they are both around a thousand bucks. i guess the obvious question is will i shoot more inside or outside.

I chose the "shoot from the hip" method, and got about 6 images that I spliced together into this huge image (the small size totally doesn't do it justice):

The only one I got yelled at for was this one, for which I had to, at my inconspicuous height of 6' 4", put the camera to my eye in the center of the room:

As far as the lenses are concerrned, I'd be wary of buying the 24-70 unless you're planning to follow the purchase up with others to fill out your bag. It overlaps the range of the lens you already have (which is supposed to have excellent optics for a non-L) too much to be a complement, but if you use it as a replacement for the 18-55, you lose that nice super-wide 18mm.

If you're only thinking of buying one lens in the near future, 24-105 with IS is much more versatile, albeit less dramatic with f/4 instead of f/2.8. (I still think you should get the 70-200 f/2.8 IS. It's only $1650:devil: )

 

[narlus]

if i didn't just spend $7K getting my roof re-shingled, i'd get both of those lenses.

 

[WTGPhoben]

if i didn't just spend $7K getting my roof re-shingled, i'd get both of those lenses.

Next time use one of those blue plastic tarps.

 

[Toshi]

toshi, how'd you disguise yr DSLR? i think i took my photo in there w/ my crappy little and old olympus back in '99, and i got tutt-tutted.

i shot those while sitting down, on timer, with camera just casually held on my lap or on my leg. the one that looks like it was shot through the doorway (with the peoples' heads) was exactly that, with a quick ducking out of the doorway combined with a "i'm a japanese tourist, don't glare at me, security guard!" look.

so i got my year-end bonus, and i could swing either one of these lenses:

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM

or

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS USM Lens

they are both around a thousand bucks. i guess the obvious question is will i shoot more inside or outside.

i really would go with something outside the range you have already. sigma 12-24? (i have one and like it better than my old sigma 15mm fisheye.) or that new IS zoom, the canon 70-300 DO IS...

 

[Toshi]

this past weekend i drove down to portland bright and early for a dyno tune, and i have to say that i'm extremely pleased with the service and the results: 283 whp, 262 wtk if i remember correctly.

mods: VF34, Tial 38mm EWG, UTEC, DTEC-BC Pro with two solenoids, TXS FMIC, Walbro, Ultimate 600cc, ACT Street Disc, lightened flywheel, underdrive pulleys, RA gearset and center diff, D2 coilovers (ignore the AGX sticker), Whiteline 24mm fsb, Perrin adjustable rear @ 24 as well, Whiteline rear endlinks, cross drilled rotors up front, slotted in the rear, stainless lines, aggressive pads all around, STi/Nokian WR for the street, Slipstream/Victoracer for sliding around on cold pavement on the weekends, carbon hood as can be seen, JL 300/4 and e2250 in the trunk driving MBQ Reference components and a 10w3v2, and a V1 hard wired. whew. and probably more junk that i'm forgetting at the moment.

all the pics can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/7388t or just look on for some highlights

Mick hard at work:

and a supercharged viper for good measure:

most of the above images were taken at ISO 3200, 12mm and f/9 or so. noise reduction does wonders...

 

[narlus]

i really would go with something outside the range you have already. sigma 12-24? (i have one and like it better than my old sigma 15mm fisheye.) or that new IS zoom, the canon 70-300 DO IS...

is it worth spending $650 for a fisheye lens? will i really get that much use of out it to warrant the purchase? what's the widest angle lens which isn't a fisheye?

maybe i'm incorrect in thinking that this is a fisheye? the 'asymmetrical' part got me thinking that. i will do a bit of research.

 

[Toshi]

fisheyes aren't $650: maybe the canon 15mm fisheye retails for that but everyone sane goes with the sigma (as neither has USM focusing or any optical advantage), and the sigma runs about $350 new at b&h or $300 used on ebay.

(checks, sees that it's $500?! weird) www.keh.com has two used fisheyes in stock for $400, $380: search for "sigma fisheye canon" to see them.

the 12-24 is not a fisheye, on the other hand. it's rectilinear, so straight lines do stay straight. i believe 12mm is the widest available for 35mm format -- tiny-sensor point and shoots often have 4mm lenses and the like, but their field of view is more like a 35mm focal length lens for the dSLRs.

 

[narlus]

how is that keh site? is it too risky to buy a used lens?

 

[Toshi]

i have purchased a lens or two off of KEH, and have no complaints. their grading is accurate as far as i can tell, and they are not one of the brooklyn scammer shops.

 

[Toshi]

anyone want to buy a nitrous fogger off of me?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8038991129&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MESE:IT

 

[Toshi]

i bought a used drysuit off of ebay for a good price, but when it arrived yesterday i was dismayed to discover that it smells like an ashtray. any hints for removing this smell other than letting it air out for a while? it can't be washed, as far as i know, since it's rubberized and the seals are delicate.

 

[stevew]

Toshi, a question about your car....

Are you running standalone engine management?

Did you video tape at the dyno?

 

[Toshi]

nope, running a piggyback computer (TurboXS UTEC). and sadly no videotape of the dyno, since i returned that whole setup earlier in the week.

 

[stevew]

Ok cool.

My older brother had dynoed his corrado a couple of weeks ago and ran video, but there was interference of some sort.

I don't know if it could have been from his standalone, the dyno or what else. Or maybe the camera is just junk.:wonky2:

Oh well, nice numbers, nice car.

 

[narlus]

i shot those while sitting down, on timer, with camera just casually held on my lap or on my leg. the one that looks like it was shot through the doorway (with the peoples' heads) was exactly that, with a quick ducking out of the doorway combined with a "i'm a japanese tourist, don't glare at me, security guard!" look.


i really would go with something outside the range you have already. sigma 12-24? (i have one and like it better than my old sigma 15mm fisheye.) or that new IS zoom, the canon 70-300 DO IS...

that last lens you mention is now piqueing my curiousity.

 

[Toshi]

story of my saga with buying a shady copy of apple aperture:

http://cameracourage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7725#7725

 

[Toshi]

also, this is a very weird yet cool way to park bikes:

http://www.bike-tree.ch/e-p01f.htm

 

[Barbaton]

Keith, this has you written all over it. It's home engineered, it's for tobacco; i think you need it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/CANNONDALE-MTB-bike-frame-hookah-hooka-MUST-SEE_W0QQitemZ6255683660QQcategoryZ133QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[WTGPhoben]

Keith, this has you written all over it. It's home engineered, it's for tobacco; i think you need it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/CANNONDALE-MTB-bike-frame-hookah-hooka-MUST-SEE_W0QQitemZ6255683660QQcategoryZ133QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

"tobacco" heh.

 

[narlus]

so my zoom lens choice is down to the 70-300 DO IS canon, or the 70-200L canon lenses.

L lens pros:
much cheaper ($550 vs $1100)
arguably better photo quality
pimp factor of the white lens
lower f stop, constant throughout zoom range

DO IS lens pros:
much smaller (4" vs 7") for stealth factor and portability
50% more reach
IS is a good solution to higher f stop usage

they both weigh about the same.

the DO, from reviews i've read, would appear to need more post-processing efforts to get sharper photos. i am a complete n00b @ PP stuff, and while i plan to learn at least the basics, this is a detriment for me right now. i guess the price difference is also a big one...but the portability/stealth factor could offset that. for people who have the 70-200L, do you use it a lot or find that its size precludes this?

 

[WTGPhoben]

so my zoom lens choice is down to the 70-300 DO IS canon, or the 70-200L canon lenses.

L lens pros:
much cheaper ($550 vs $1100)
arguably better photo quality
pimp factor of the white lens
lower f stop, constant throughout zoom range

DO IS lens pros:
much smaller (4" vs 7") for stealth factor and portability
50% more reach
IS is a good solution to higher f stop usage

they both weigh about the same.

the DO, from reviews i've read, would appear to need more post-processing efforts to get sharper photos. i am a complete n00b @ PP stuff, and while i plan to learn at least the basics, this is a detriment for me right now. i guess the price difference is also a big one...but the portability/stealth factor could offset that. for people who have the 70-200L, do you use it a lot or find that its size precludes this?

I can't speak for the conveniencce of the L, as I don't own one, but I can speak for the photos it takes as I got a chance to play with the f/4 version for a day this summer.

This is shot wide open, and has virtually no post-processing:

I can post a 100% crop later if you want / if I get time.

 

[narlus]

at this point i am thinking of going L, and then also buying the 17-40mm f/4 USM canon lens. i can get two lenses for about the same price as the 70-300.

btw, wtgphoben, what does '100% crop' mean? i've seen that term thrown about a lot on the photog forums.

and does anyone recommend a good book on photoshop/post-processing? how did you guys arrive at yr particular workflow? is there a standard procedure or trial and error?

 

[WTGPhoben]

at this point i am thinking of going L, and then also buying the 17-40mm f/4 USM canon lens. i can get two lenses for about the same price as the 70-300.

btw, wtgphoben, what does '100% crop' mean? i've seen that term thrown about a lot on the photog forums.

and does anyone recommend a good book on photoshop/post-processing? how did you guys arrive at yr particular workflow? is there a standard procedure or trial and error?

100% crop means that instead of shrinking the image down to a reasonable size for posting, I cut out a little piece of the full-sized image so you can really see the rendering of detail. For instance, if I did a 100% crop of the image in my last post, I might cut out the piece with the flower petal so you could see how crisply it rendered the purple lines on the petals.

As far as books, I was totally impressed with "The Photoshop CS Book" I believe it's by Scott Kelby. It's got setp by step instructions with pictures for all sorts of common tasks and tricks. I've been using P-shop for years and the first time I opened the book I learned something new.

 

[narlus]

thanks, that's what i thought but wasn't entirely sure.

thanks for the help! so much to learn. but it's fun.

 

[Toshi]

at this point i am thinking of going L, and then also buying the 17-40mm f/4 USM canon lens. i can get two lenses for about the same price as the 70-300.

that's a good plan. if you decide like me that you like to shoot indoors without flash, however, at some point you'll want faster lenses, particularly at the long end. f/4 is more than adequate for wide angle imo.

i guess with the DO IS being even slower it's not really a factor to sway you away from the 70-200/4, but eventually i found that f/4 was limiting, not the bulk or weight of the lens (which were non-issues). ymmv.

 

[Barbaton]

so my zoom lens choice is down to the 70-300 DO IS canon, or the 70-200L canon lenses.

L lens pros:
much cheaper ($550 vs $1100)
arguably better photo quality
pimp factor of the white lens
lower f stop, constant throughout zoom range

DO IS lens pros:
much smaller (4" vs 7") for stealth factor and portability
50% more reach
IS is a good solution to higher f stop usage

they both weigh about the same.

the DO, from reviews i've read, would appear to need more post-processing efforts to get sharper photos. i am a complete n00b @ PP stuff, and while i plan to learn at least the basics, this is a detriment for me right now. i guess the price difference is also a big one...but the portability/stealth factor could offset that. for people who have the 70-200L, do you use it a lot or find that its size precludes this?

I've been looking in very much the same space, but between the 70-300 F4 IS (non-DO) and the 70-200 F4L. Pretty much everything I've read has discouraged the DO lens, since the diffractive thing is kind of an experiment and the lens isn't as good as those alternatives. I'm leaning towards the 70-300 non-DO...

 

[richcreek]

DO IS lens looks better

 

[narlus]

that's a good plan. if you decide like me that you like to shoot indoors without flash, however, at some point you'll want faster lenses, particularly at the long end. f/4 is more than adequate for wide angle imo.

i guess with the DO IS being even slower it's not really a factor to sway you away from the 70-200/4, but eventually i found that f/4 was limiting, not the bulk or weight of the lens (which were non-issues). ymmv.

but the f2.8 lens is a monster! and hugely pricey to boot.

 

[Toshi]

oh, i agree. that's why i went with the 135mm f/2L. sharper, faster, lighter, and not white although still L glass.

zooms are for the weak

 

[Toshi]

mmmm

day 14 on the slopes
13" fresh overnight, 22" in the past 48" hours
blue skies
open backcountry! so fresh tracks for me

 

[Toshi]

people: buy my display! i don't feel like ponying up for a DVI->ADC converter (which are ugly kludges anyway) and it without one it won't work with my just-arrived macbook, so it must go.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8771431921

For auction: Apple Studio Display 17" LCD. See auction page for further details. $175 Buy it Now price!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8771431921

 

[Barbaton]

aah, the things you can do with photoshop

http://fluideffect.com/

 

[narlus]

a new wrinkle in my lens quest.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022113canonefs1755f28g.asp

of course it'll expand my budget by nearly 50%, but it gives me more overlap w/ than the 17-40 while gaining a full stop. it would also make my 50mm prime lens probably useless, so maybe i could get $60 for that baby and buy a filter.

 

[WTGPhoben]

a new wrinkle in my lens quest.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022113canonefs1755f28g.asp

of course it'll expand my budget by nearly 50%, but it gives me more overlap w/ than the 17-40 while gaining a full stop. it would also make my 50mm prime lens probably useless, so maybe i could get $60 for that baby and buy a filter.

Drool... I'd like to see the MTF chart for it, but it sounds like an excellent lens.

 

[Toshi]

a new wrinkle in my lens quest.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022113canonefs1755f28g.asp

of course it'll expand my budget by nearly 50%, but it gives me more overlap w/ than the 17-40 while gaining a full stop. it would also make my 50mm prime lens probably useless, so maybe i could get $60 for that baby and buy a filter.

fwiw, i personally don't shoot in that focal length range much. 50 (= 80) for portraits, sure, but otherwise i like to be at at 12 (20) or 135 (216) the majority of the time...