do all the high end forks dampning systems basically do the same thing?(control the oil flow at certain point of travel)
which one is technically susperior?
which one is technically susperior?
tpc+,HSCV,SHIM STACK(FOX)and PURE DAMPNING all the same?
- Thread starter rbx
- Start date
TPC+ is supposed to be very plush in the first part of the travel, plush meaning very lightly dampened in this case, this is accomplished by the diameter of the chamber being slightly bigger at the bottom and tapering at the top so that more oil can flow past the piston when the fork is uncompressed and less when it is compressed. HSCV uses a shim that will deform when a high-speed bump is encountered and causes the compression dampening to increase. so theoretically a HSCV should be lightly dampened until a big hit comes along and then the dampening will be a little harder, you can hear it happening on a Z1 FR. A shim stack relies on appropriate valving to control the flow of oil, dampening is the same through out the stroke and can give a more consistent feel if you can notice a difference. I don't have any freaking clue what pure dampeining is, probabally just a shim stack though.
Damping systems all do the same thing but in different ways and in differing amounts. The Psylo pure damper and Manitou twin piston systems were close enough that Manitou sued Rock Shox for a patent infringement and won. Cannondale have licensed the TPC from Manitou for some of the latest models.
Some of the new stuff in rear shocks like progressive claim some impressive performance. But I think the miriad of adjustments available will be beyond a lot of people or maybe more hassle for some people that they're worth.
Some of the new stuff in rear shocks like progressive claim some impressive performance. But I think the miriad of adjustments available will be beyond a lot of people or maybe more hassle for some people that they're worth.
so what type of dampning did marz. use before HSCV in their high end z1 line?(i have the 2001 z1 mcr)
dampening is getting something a bit wet. Damping is controlling movement. Although in my Oxford they seem to be somewhat interchangeable. What do I know.
The first high speed compression valving I know of in Bike forks was in Marzocchi Xc series forks. There was an umbrella valve which allowed oil past it if it moved slowly but it opened up and closed things off and redirected oil when it moved fast. I don't think I ever took apart the damper in a Z2 Bomber but the ones I had only had adjustable rebound damping. I think that just varied orifice size. Z1's had both compression and rebound dampers, one in each leg.
The first high speed compression valving I know of in Bike forks was in Marzocchi Xc series forks. There was an umbrella valve which allowed oil past it if it moved slowly but it opened up and closed things off and redirected oil when it moved fast. I don't think I ever took apart the damper in a Z2 Bomber but the ones I had only had adjustable rebound damping. I think that just varied orifice size. Z1's had both compression and rebound dampers, one in each leg.
if i'm not mistaken, they've been using essentially the same damper for a LONG time, probably since before the Bombers came out.
As (I think) oldfart is essentially saying, they've refined it some over the years but it's pretty much the same idea.....
Yep. I think as travel increased the fork manufacturers were compelled to make more effective damping systems. You don't need anything fancy in a 2 inch travel fork but at 5 inches, well now you start getting problems with excessive movement, dive and other control problems.
Aside from possible minor changes, and the major change for 2002 of including the negative spring in the cartridge (avoids tampering with travel increases and stuff I suppose), Marzocchi's cartridges have remained the same for quite awhile. They work really well, and while they may be refining the shim stacks, the design has been identical.
As for other forks, surely there will be some differences, as Marzocchi holds patents on their execution of the damper. However, they will be similar, generally speaking.
Basically the adjustments vary the free-bleed hole size. There is a shim stack in any of the MArzocchi forks using top-cap adjustable rebound/compression. But, you're generally right.