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tragic local event

Mr Tiles

I'm a beer snob
Nov 10, 2003
3,474
0
L-town ya'll
Last Saturday, a man was riding an atv with a 7-y-o girl on the back near my local mtb trail. They were riding on a well-known powerline cut that is clearly marked county/park property. The area has been a hot spot for trespassing, atv use, 4wd use, gun fire, consumption of alcohol, etc for at least two decades. The man wrecks at an unknown speed and the little girl was killed instantly due to blunt-force trauma. Neither were wearing helmets. Here's the story:
http://www.gastongazette.com/news/gaston_15250___article.html/county_atv.html

As you can see, the guy got a pretty stiff penalty for his negligence. I've been pondering this and I keep thinking the county is also somewhat to blame for this because it's well known this type of activity has been going on for years. Is this not the same thing as having a swimming pool without a fence around it? an attractive nuisance? Thoughts?
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,183
1
TN
That sucks.
IMO though, you cant blame the county for other peoples' stupidity. You shouldnt have to police people and be responsible for it when they break known rules and kill themselves.
 

kingbee

Monkey
Mar 29, 2004
902
0
Ohio
Its not the county's fault the guy did that. You cant do much more than tell people not to do something.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,033
0
Denver
...and I keep thinking the county is also somewhat to blame for this because it's well known this type of activity has been going on for years.
Don't they have signs posted?

Just cuz the cops don't catch every liquor store armed robber doesn't mean that they should be held responsible for the next focker that tries it.

This "man" is an "adult" and should've known better. He got a 7yo girl killed... throw the book at him. And if the girl's mom knew about the plan, she should be charged too.
 

Spero

ass rainbow
Jul 12, 2005
2,072
0
Tejas
I think that, in general, the use of ATVs, motorcycles and other 4wd vehicles on land that doesn't allow their use needs to be regulated more strictly. I see this kind of bull**** at a couple of the parks around here all the time and they're well within city limits. The parks see a large amount of foot and cycling traffic and the fact that these worthless bags of skin are endangering people by speeding through trails illegally really irks me.

I won't even start on the issue of this asshole not protecting a child.
 
I think that, in general, the use of ATVs, motorcycles and other 4wd vehicles on land that doesn't allow their use needs to be regulated more strictly. I see this kind of bull**** at a couple of the parks around here all the time and they're well within city limits. The parks see a large amount of foot and cycling traffic and the fact that these worthless bags of skin are endangering people by speeding through trails illegally really irks me.

I won't even start on the issue of this asshole not protecting a child.
What would your reaction be if someone were to say

"I think that, in general, the use of mountain bikes on land that doesn't allow their use needs to be regulated more strictly. I see this kind of bull**** at a couple of the parks around here all the time and they're well within city limits. The parks see a large amount of foot and equestrian traffic and the fact that these worthless bags of skin are endangering people by speeding through trails illegally really irks me."

?

P.S. My signature does not apply to this question. :D
 

Mr Tiles

I'm a beer snob
Nov 10, 2003
3,474
0
L-town ya'll
My point was in the OP that if the county would police, i.e. sting operations, citations, confiscation, etc more often, could this event have been prevented? I think it was three years ago when they had the last sting operation...
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,033
0
Denver
What would your reaction be if someone were to say

"I think that, in general, the use of mountain bikes on land that doesn't allow their use needs to be regulated more strictly.
No one should have an issue with that if "land that doesn't allow their use".

Illegal is illegal, yeah?
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,033
0
Denver
My point was in the OP that if the county would police, i.e. sting operations, citations, confiscation, etc more often, could this event have been prevented? I think it was three years ago when they had the last sting operation...
Eh, then people would complain that the limited resources were not being used in what they consider the best way.

Hang this guy by his balls.
 

Spero

ass rainbow
Jul 12, 2005
2,072
0
Tejas
What would your reaction be if someone were to say

"I think that, in general, the use of mountain bikes on land that doesn't allow their use needs to be regulated more strictly. I see this kind of bull**** at a couple of the parks around here all the time and they're well within city limits. The parks see a large amount of foot and equestrian traffic and the fact that these worthless bags of skin are endangering people by speeding through trails illegally really irks me."

?

P.S. My signature does not apply to this question. :D
I wouldn't feel any differently. I'm a hiker and have done my share of horse packing as well. I strongly disagree with illegal use anywhere it may be and by any means. The issues you bring up above are, for the most part, set on federal land. City and county parks that are in much more dense settings call for a more strict regulation, IMO, because of the large amounts of traffic. I don't know what kind of location the park mentioned above was situated in, but it struck a nerve nontheless.
 

Mr Tiles

I'm a beer snob
Nov 10, 2003
3,474
0
L-town ya'll
I'm merely talking about strict liability. If I have something in my backyard like a trampoline, pool, dirt jumps, a ramp or the like and somebody gets hurt using without my permission, i.e. they are trespassing, I'm liable. If you printed out the call reports of illegal activities in that area for automatic gun fire, atv use, 4wd use, wreckless behavior, etc, it would be 5 miles long. They county knew and has known for many years that the cut was a hot bed for illegal activity.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,183
1
TN
My point was in the OP that if the county would police, i.e. sting operations, citations, confiscation, etc more often, could this event have been prevented? I think it was three years ago when they had the last sting operation...
...So now there has to be some acceptable level of sting operations going on to prevent rednecks from being idiots, or it's the government's fault? Police should be out protecting people from criminals, not intervening in natural selection. If these idiots want to shoot roman candles at each other while running around with buckets of gas, who gives a ****? Sure, people illegally riding should be prosecuted, but it doesnt fall on the cops or the county when someone breaking a law that is rarely enforced kills themself doing it.
 

laura

DH_Laura
Jul 16, 2002
6,262
14
Glitter Gulch
How incredibly sad for everyone involved. I've been fortunate to be in ATV accidents with no helmet and come out unscathed. Accidents are just that, it's too bad helmets aren't more popular.
 

Spero

ass rainbow
Jul 12, 2005
2,072
0
Tejas
If I jump off the golden gate bridge to kill myself, is it the city of SF's fault for letting me because people do that all the time?
No, but if you live and someone gets eaten by a shark trying to rescue you, it's your fault.

 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,965
4
If I jump off the golden gate bridge to kill myself, is it the city of SF's fault for letting me because people do that all the time?
In SF? Of course it's the city's fault, tigers are chasing you. Suicide is the only option.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,861
0
SoMD
The authorities should be intervening not to protect the folks endangering themselves, but to protect innocent folks from the stupid people.

This guy should hang..or be executed by "blunt force trauma"
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,033
0
Denver
The authorities should be intervening not to protect the folks endangering themselves, but to protect innocent folks from the stupid people.
Agreed.

For me, it would be a different story if an ATVer riding illegally killed a 7yo who was just rightfully playing there.

If this area gets a fair amount of foot traffic, then more enforcement is needed.

For example, we had a big enough issue a few years back here about DHers that the city put more Park Rangers out and issued more reckless endangerment tickets to bikers riding out of control for the trail.
 

Mr Tiles

I'm a beer snob
Nov 10, 2003
3,474
0
L-town ya'll
fwiw, the area where the wreck occured is part of park property. the county has been developing the property the last few years with a mtb/hiking trail as well as a planned horse access trail. There WILL be more confrontations b/w cyclists/hikers and these ATV riders in the near future.
 

CRoss

Turbo Monkey
Nov 20, 2006
1,329
1
The Ranch
Once again it is always somebody else's fault. This country loves to find everyone that had the slightest amount of involvement in a accident and punish them. Leaving us to constantly watch what we do and say so we canot get blamed for something. Throw the book at the guy driving the ATV maybe fine the mom if she had something to do with the planning of the activity. The county should not be blamed. Unless you want even more ugly fences, barbed wire, and other deterents to keep people out of everywhere.

It sucks that a little girl died but, we have to many damn fences and closed off areas in this country. Make people responsible for their actions. Do not make people responsible for the actions of others.
 

Velocity Girl

whack-a-mole
Sep 12, 2001
1,279
0
Atlanta
How horrible!

It's stupid @#*(#$%*(#$%*#$ idiots like that who give the rest of us ATV riders a bad name. A) they shouldn't be riding where it's illegal and B) ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS wear a helmet...and as the adult, it's your responsibility to make sure the kids do.

:disgust1::disgust1::disgust1:
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,033
0
Denver
Once again it is always somebody else's fault.
You're over-reacting. The OPie was asking if there was a way for the county to head this off since it's happened before. I'm sure he advocates punishing the idiot who killed the girl.