[rideit]

Well, I am trying to calculate a somewhat accurate budget for a VERY comprehensive trail project, and I am a little stumped. We are talking about varying terrain, 4-6 (four to six man) full time summer crew. Mechanized vehicle rentals, (sweco's, walking excavators, motorized wheelbarrels, explosives, the works). We have a limited window of build time, the trail conditions vary from easy, cuttable soils (1/5- 1/4) of a mile per day in some places) all the way to blasting into shale to make switchbacks, retaining walls, and bench cuts. I don't know how to begin to calculate!
Any advice?
Costs:
Crew
Machines
hand tools
materiels, flagging, etc
explosives
any others?

 

[Zark]

Sounds like an expensive project and possibly well funded. Something I've never had the luck of being involved in.

Break the trail into sections and figure out materials and rough time for each section. Add a 20% SNAFU factor to whatever number you come up with, since things always come up.

 

[DRB]

http://www.traildynamics.com/

Or maybe

http://www.imba.com/news/trail_news/18_2/itn_18_2_trail_solutions.html

 

[sanjuro]

Just curious, you mention explosives and mechanized earth movers. Where are you building this trail and who owns the land?

Parks and National Forests are not going to allow that kind of excavation. And I doubt IMBA would recommend cutting a new trail where one never existed.

 

[rideit]

It is a Joint project between Grand Targhee resort, which has a national forest service lease. I am the project manager. We are currently doing our Nepa application, so we are doing this just like ski resort development...hence no problems with machinery, explosives, etc. They are used all the time for resort ops. However, the footprint of my trail proposal is so much smaller than classic cat track construction, we need a place to start with the budget that bis a bit more accurate. It is a complex, multi year, multi phase project, and I need a little solid data. Does anyone here have any contact with resort operations managers at ski areas that do have extensive Mt. Bike trail programs?

(FWIW, I was granted a full scholarship to attend the IMBA summit in Whistler next week...they are fully behind this project, and are supporting me for it)

 

[DRB]

It is a Joint project between Grand Targhee resort, which has a national forest service lease. I am the project manager. We are currently doing our Nepa application, so we are doing this just like ski resort development...hence no problems with machinery, explosives, etc. They are used all the time for resort ops. However, the footprint of my trail proposal is so much smaller than classic cat track construction, we need a place to start with the budget that bis a bit more accurate. It is a complex, multi year, multi phase project, and I need a little solid data. Does anyone here have any contact with resort operations managers at ski areas that do have extensive Mt. Bike trail programs?

Then I reiterate my links. Those are the kinds of folks you need to be talking with to develop your plan.

 

[dhbuilder]

just a little info that may or may not be of any use.

for the past six years i've been building hand cut singletrack downhill trails at windrock mt. tennessee.

no power machinery can access the steep terrain here. so it's all hand work.

my list of tools.
20in. chain saw
16in. chain saw
weedeaters
backpack leafblower.
countless mattocks, shovels, rakes etc...
2 ton comealong and chains.
6ft. steel pry bar.

even with that sparse list, i've easily spent well over $10,000 in six years of building.

it ain't cheap.

i deal with a coal co. who owns 72,000 acres on which i've been given a very healty slice.
i also have to deal with the local a.t.v. club which manages the o.h.v. activity here.
other than the trails themselves, the thing i'm most proud of is the relationship i've developed with both of these groups.

i work hand in hand with both groups here.
they see the years of hard work and commitment i have to develop the best downhill trail system in the country that nobodies ever heard of.
and have been given a huge amount of respect and freedom to build whatever i want without any restrictions whatsoever.

i hope you have the same good fortune.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

there is only one logical solution to this project, a couple of these:

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

just a little info that may or may not be of any use.

for the past six years i've been building hand cut singletrack downhill trails at windrock mt. tennessee.

no power machinery can access the steep terrain here. so it's all hand work.

my list of tools.
20in. chain saw
16in. chain saw
weedeaters
backpack leafblower.
countless mattocks, shovels, rakes etc...
2 ton comealong and chains.
6ft. steel pry bar.

even with that sparse list, i've easily spent well over $10,000 in six years of building.

it ain't cheap.

wow we have been building a ton, and it is pretty amazing what you can do by hand without chainsaws and what not...

depends on the terrain/forest...

 

[sanjuro]

It is a Joint project between Grand Targhee resort, which has a national forest service lease. I am the project manager. We are currently doing our Nepa application, so we are doing this just like ski resort development...hence no problems with machinery, explosives, etc. They are used all the time for resort ops. However, the footprint of my trail proposal is so much smaller than classic cat track construction, we need a place to start with the budget that bis a bit more accurate. It is a complex, multi year, multi phase project, and I need a little solid data. Does anyone here have any contact with resort operations managers at ski areas that do have extensive Mt. Bike trail programs?

(FWIW, I was granted a full scholarship to attend the IMBA summit in Whistler next week...they are fully behind this project, and are supporting me for it)

That sounds great. Sorry, sometimes there are some silly posts about building illegal stunts and trails.

I am friends with the Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship, which maintains the Downieville trails, but they are tightly limited by the USFS on what kind of work they can do.

Actually, my understanding is that Northern California resorts on USFS land are unable to build trails and stunts, which is why only Northstar, which is privately owned, is able to build dh runs.

It is great to hear that Wyoming is less restrictive.

 

[sanjuro]

Also, while you are at Whistler, why don't you contact the private company which built most of their trails? They got a write-up in Bike Magazine last year, but I can't remember their name.

 

[dhbuilder]

wow we have been building a ton, and it is pretty amazing what you can do by hand without chainsaws and what not...

depends on the terrain/forest...

you and i have touched base on this before.

i wish more riders would realize how satisfying it is to build your own first class place to ride.
i've been given an opportutnity that most never get. UNRESTRICTED LAND!!
i'm not wasting it.

 

[jdcamb]

Cool project Sounds like fun. Good luck.

 

[kidwoo]

And I doubt IMBA would recommend cutting a new trail where one never existed.

I thought they were a mountain bike group.

Hmmm......go figure.

 

[splat]

get the imba trail building handbook , contact IMBA , ask them these questions.

 

[pepe]

I'm sure you've talked to Dewayne, but if not, get with him. Also - there are the trail docs down here. If you want Ryan's number, I can get you in touch. Shoot a PM if you would like it. I am sure they could help with info.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Also, while you are at Whistler, why don't you contact the private company which built most of their trails? They got a write-up in Bike Magazine last year, but I can't remember their name.

They're also in the July '06 issue of Decline (page 40) They're called
'Gravity Logic'

Go Here for Linky...

Hope that helps!

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

you and i have touched base on this before.

i wish more riders would realize how satisfying it is to build your own first class place to ride.
i've been given an opportutnity that most never get. UNRESTRICTED LAND!!
i'm not wasting it.

Right, it's a great feeling, brungeman and I are about to open our first trail. Tons of built features/berms and flowy stuff in an area...

 

[rideit]

get the imba trail building handbook , contact IMBA , ask them these questions.

Actually, I have been working with IMBA for a few years. I was just granted a full scholarship to attend the IMBA conference next week in Whistler, I will be able to get all of the answers there easily...but my boss is riding my ass to hav e answers for him yesterday. The more info the better.

 

[Skookum]

Well, I am trying to calculate a somewhat accurate budget for a VERY comprehensive trail project, and I am a little stumped. We are talking about varying terrain, 4-6 (four to six man) full time summer crew. Mechanized vehicle rentals, (sweco's, walking excavators, motorized wheelbarrels, explosives, the works). We have a limited window of build time, the trail conditions vary from easy, cuttable soils (1/5- 1/4) of a mile per day in some places) all the way to blasting into shale to make switchbacks, retaining walls, and bench cuts. I don't know how to begin to calculate!
Any advice?
Costs:
Crew
Machines
hand tools
materiels, flagging, etc
explosives
any others?

Haha that's a hell of alot more crap than any trail build i've ever been on. Usually you have to have someone certified to run that stuff. i mean explosives? Are you kidding me, whoah. haha

 

[rideit]

Haha that's a hell of alot more crap than any trail build i've ever been on. Usually you have to have someone certified to run that stuff. i mean explosives? Are you kidding me, whoah. haha

Yup, complete certification of all operators for every phase, all in accordance with our FS contract and the scope of our NEPA agreement. This is some BURLY, STEEP rock that I am trying to trench a trail into. I am just the project manager, not the machinery operator. It gonna be kewl. BOOM!

 

[dhbuilder]

a couple of years back,
they had to come up and re-work and widen our shuttle road. so they could haul machinery up for a windturbine project at the mt. top.

so as i was up there trailbuilding, i got to know all the foremen for the different crews and most of the workers.
and one day when i was there, one of the guys came up and let me know that they would be setting off a charge in about an hour.
then advised me to keep a certain distance.

needless to say, i made my way down as close as i could.
IT WAS SO COOL. the siesmic shock wave that traveled through the ground and the ensueing 150ft. tall wave of rock that flew out was an unforgettable experience.:bomb::bomb::bomb:

 

[rideit]

(((((!!!!boom!!!!))))

 

[dhbuilder]

pretty much.

and right after that i realized i might have gotten a little too close.
because it's just like they say, what goes (way) up must come down.

 

[Skookum]

Yup, complete certification of all operators for every phase, all in accordance with our FS contract and the scope of our NEPA agreement. This is some BURLY, STEEP rock that I am trying to trench a trail into. I am just the project manager, not the machinery operator. It gonna be kewl. BOOM!

Wow insanity, i'd really really like to see progress with pictures and reports. Especially during the explosives part.:bomb: