[Sam B]

How old is your BS? They may have changed/updated (or measured it with different equipment like a boxxer with a 1.5" non zero stack). The one we had was also around that 13.7 number with a zero stack, etc.

Yeah, I think the tire diameters that get plugged in for a "built" bike BB height are a little large. It would be better to list BB height from the axles, but then nobody understands the numbers... "WTF is -0.5" BB Drop?" Negative drop... huh? Anyway...

Yes - the BB heights are quite low, but that is why there are 3 of them. It would be a waste to have 3 settings if one of them was too steep/tall for current rider's preferences. And also, the headtube is short enough that you get a lot off range in fork height as well. Pretty easy to raise/lower the front/rear to get the HA and BB combo that you want. Currently mine is in the low position with a BB height around 13.55" or so... for what that is worth.

 

[Speedwa]

Low and Slack......Great Geometry.

 

[DirtyMike]

Yeah, I think the tire diameters that get plugged in for a "built" bike BB height are a little large. It would be better to list BB height from the axles, but then nobody understands the numbers... "WTF is -0.5" BB Drop?" Negative drop... huh? Anyway...

Yes - the BB heights are quite low, but that is why there are 3 of them. It would be a waste to have 3 settings if one of them was too steep/tall for current rider's preferences. And also, the headtube is short enough that you get a lot off range in fork height as well. Pretty easy to raise/lower the front/rear to get the HA and BB combo that you want. Currently mine is in the low position with a BB height around 13.55" or so... for what that is worth.

That adjustability is what really gets me over the blindside, other than that, I love my blindside

 

[buckoW]

Hey Sam,

How do you adjust the 3 settings? The bike looks awesome! I love the geo.

One of the Champery locals ordered one.

 

[jvnixon]

Hey Sam,

How do you adjust the 3 settings? The bike looks awesome! I love the geo.

One of the Champery locals ordered one.

I believe it is done on the rear linkage.

 

[Sam B]

Hey Sam,

How do you adjust the 3 settings? The bike looks awesome! I love the geo.

One of the Champery locals ordered one.

Nice!

Where the dog bone connects to the rocker there are two different "hats" - one centered and one offset. You can put the offset one in either direction. You do have to pull the shock off to change the setting, but we felt is was more important to hide the adjustment and keep clean lines. Figured most riders would find a setting they like and very rarely, if ever, change it.

See ya later!

 

[thom9719]

$361 more buys you a US made frame from a company with a long history in making excellent downhill bikes. You know, this bike with the area code name.

or save the 400 dollars and go race....

Kyle,

 

[toodles]

$361 more buys you a US made frame from a company with a long history in making excellent downhill bikes. You know, this bike with the area code name.

Pfft. You've got that all wrong. What you should be wondering is why the other frame is $360 more than the Transition. The TR450 ticks all the boxes and comes in cheaper than the vast majority of comparable frames. With that kind of quality on offer I don't know why you'd need to pay 1 dollar more.

 

[ride]

Pfft. You've got that all wrong. What you should be wondering is why the other frame is $360 more than the Transition. The TR450 ticks all the boxes and comes in cheaper than the vast majority of comparable frames. With that kind of quality on offer I don't know why you'd need to pay 1 dollar more.

Well played sir!

 

[iRider]

Not saying it is a bad bike, but the difference in price is not big enough to go and get a bike made overseas IMO. I was expecting it to be closer to $2000.

Pfft. You've got that all wrong. What you should be wondering is why the other frame is $360 more than the Transition. The TR450 ticks all the boxes and comes in cheaper than the vast majority of comparable frames. With that kind of quality on offer I don't know why you'd need to pay 1 dollar more.

I wonder if you ask yourself the same question when your job gets outsourced.

 

[iRider]

or save the 400 dollars and go race....

Kyle,

If you are spending over two grand on a frame alone I don't think the money to go to a race should be a problem.

 

[thom9719]

I wonder if you ask yourself the same question when your job gets outsourced.

When I hear that in relation to my job, my thought is what can we do to be innovative to keep the job here, or what can we do to make product "x" better than the overseas competition. As for purchasing circumstances, I buy the best product at the best value. I personally think it is dumb to support one country over another based strictly on location.

As far as frames go, there is no reason to spend more money on a product if it doesn't offer performance benefits IMO.

Kyle,

 

[thad]

Sam was nice enough to let me try out his Tr450, because my turner's shock is blown and he's injured.

Coming off of a square tube med DHR that is drilled, the HT and BB height are very similar on the TR. Sam's bike is a L, and is set up a bit stiffer than my bike, so it took me a couple of runs to get used to the longer toptube and firmer ride. Once I got used to it, the bike SHREDS! The RC4 has a very stable feeling to it, while still being very plush. I was really impressed how it composed it feels under hard braking. The bike feels really confidence inspiring in straight line chunder and rips corners. Compared to the DHR it felt more stable at speed, didn't wallow as much, and was considerably quieter. I am sure alot of that has to due with the RC4 vs the DHX5 I have on the turner. I did feel like my DHR is better at tight pocket corners, but I think that has more to due with the TT, WB size difference.

My verdict is the bike looks good, is clean and well thought out, and it pins, WOOT!

 

[thad]

$361 more buys you a US made frame from a company with a long history in making excellent downhill bikes. You know, this bike with the area code name.

Yeah, but the Transition will be welded straight, won't eat bearings, and won't take two people to reef on the rear end to get the pivot bolts to line up.

Transition also answers their phone and has a killer warranty.

The V10 and the Revolt are both Taiwan bikes.

 

[DirtyMike]

$361 more buys you a US made frame from a company with a long history in making excellent downhill bikes. You know, this bike with the area code name.

I am guessing you speak of the 951.... Tell ya what, I will be test riding one here in two weeks, I will tell you what I think of it. If its anything like the otehr intenses I have ridden, I wont be overly impressed, But I cannot say untill I take it for a ride.

 

[iRider]

When I hear that in relation to my job, my thought is what can we do to be innovative to keep the job here, or what can we do to make product "x" better than the overseas competition.

Marketing!!! Just tell everybody that you are a cool, rider owned, core, PNW company!
Curious: are the welders riding too?

As for purchasing circumstances, I buy the best product at the best value. I personally think it is dumb to support one country over another based strictly on location.

I am with you on that. It is dumb. But why does a company chose to produce overseas? The answer that we, the customers, get is that we will end up with a product that is cheaper for us. So manufacturing is cheaper overseas, admitted by the companies. But when I look at the prices of the final products I wonder why they are so damn close (or even higher) than stuff that is made here? They must be laughing all the way to the bank.

I am with Karl-Heinz Nicolai on that. He once answered to the question why everything is made in house in Germany that they "love to ride and work here".

As far as frames go, there is no reason to spend more money on a product if it doesn't offer performance benefits IMO. Kyle,

Who says that other frames don't offer better performance?

 

[toodles]

I wonder if you ask yourself the same question when your job gets outsourced.

Being Australian means that buying any DH frame means I'm sending money overseas. These days the quality is the same anyway so the difference between buying Taiwanese made and US-made is negligible for me.

 

[iRider]

Yeah, but the Transition will be welded straight, won't eat bearings, and won't take two people to reef on the rear end to get the pivot bolts to line up.

And the frames would never break because someone forgot to proper heat treat them.

Transition also answers their phone and has a killer warranty.

So do other companies.

The V10 and the Revolt are both Taiwan bikes.

And they are even more expensive!

 

[thad]

Some other companies do... Intense, not so much.

 

[iRider]

Some other companies do... Intense, not so much.

I had nothing but stellar customer service from them.

 

[ride]

Irider, to me it seems you are getting a bit hung up on the "made in the USA thing".

I don't want to even think about the discussion of one bike being a better performer that an other. So much of that is personal preference, and is an endless discussion.

However I would like to note on the overseas manufacturing though.

These days a number of the factories there are so dialed. It is quite a bit different than it used to be. I'm not saying all of them, but there are a few that are used by more US manufacturers than you would guess. And they are frequently contracted for a reason. They produce quality work, more consistently. Their production rates and quality make it nearly impossible to beat- Albeit the anomalies like the American MFG you so deftly have referred to.

Trust me I'm an American, I love to buy products that are made in the USA. But this is the bike industry mate, that's right, these are businesses.
I'm sure Jeff loves to ride his bike too, but do you really think he would still do what he does if he couldn't make a living?

I've never ridden the 951, but I'm sure it's a sick bike. Just like the rest of the Intense bikes. Just another choice to make in life...

Get over it, buy a 951 then.

 

[DirtyMike]

And the frames would never break because someone forgot to proper heat treat them. :

Hmmmmm, so what were these pics I saw not so long ago with a broken 951.....

Not trying to be a dick, Im just good at it.

Seriously, if you want to push the "other" bike, go for it, just start another thread promoting that one.

Never sen anything less than perfect when it comes to QC from the guys at Transition.

All Bikes break, but the guys at Transition seriously beat the **** out of there bikes to make sure it take a hell of a hit.

The Transition bikes are simple, easy to work on, and they work...Not so much for the Other bike..... Complicated linkages, thin ass tubing, and a nuthair short of a boutique bike. Yeah the"other" bike works, if you like the mad creaking you get from a Virtual pivot bike of this nature....But hey if thats what floats your boat... go for it

 

[Sam B]

Sam was nice enough to let me try out his Tr450, because my turner's shock is blown and he's injured.

Coming off of a square tube med DHR that is drilled, the HT and BB height are very similar on the TR. Sam's bike is a L, and is set up a bit stiffer than my bike, so it took me a couple of runs to get used to the longer toptube and firmer ride. Once I got used to it, the bike SHREDS! The RC4 has a very stable feeling to it, while still being very plush. I was really impressed how it composed it feels under hard braking. The bike feels really confidence inspiring in straight line chunder and rips corners. Compared to the DHR it felt more stable at speed, didn't wallow as much, and was considerably quieter. I am sure alot of that has to due with the RC4 vs the DHX5 I have on the turner. I did feel like my DHR is better at tight pocket corners, but I think that has more to due with the TT, WB size difference.

My verdict is the bike looks good, is clean and well thought out, and it pins, WOOT!

You're welcome. I thought you would like it.

Just another note... the TR450 has much larger bearings (and no needles) than your Turner, also larger pivot hardware. Great for durability in our less than forgiving environment.

------------------
I am not even going to get to deep into this whole US made thing... but I will say this. I buy my food as locally as possible 'cause a carrot is a carrot, no matter where you grow it. Food - go local. Bikes - go where they know how to do it right.

 

[dilzy]

Intense bikes are built by absolute muppets. The welds have zero penetration and are done at far too low temperature. Their sole goal is that stack of dimes look, when to anyone in the know the welds are absolute crap.

Their pivot hardware is poorly designed and one only has to look at the 951 dropout design, or it's complete incompatability with a properly set up chain guide to know that Jeff hasn't got a clue.

 

[RUFUS]

Intense bikes are built by absolute muppets. The welds have zero penetration and are done at far too low temperature. Their sole goal is that stack of dimes look, when to anyone in the know the welds are absolute crap.

Their pivot hardware is poorly designed and one only has to look at the 951 dropout design, or it's complete incompatability with a properly set up chain guide to know that Jeff hasn't got a clue.

You're an idiot.

Please enlighten us by post pics of your frames that you have designed and built with the amazing welds.

I would trust putting myself or my wife on an Intense any day. I met Jeff and I have ridden a few different Intense bikes in the recent years and was unbelievably impressed with them. If I wasn't riding Yeti, I would be on an Intense in a heartbeat.

Gotta love the haters out there. Someone is living their dream, doing what they love, building a great product for the market and making revolutionary designs day after day for the good of the industry and all that you can do is hate on the internet.

Please tell us what you think are the perfect frames with incredible welds and amazing welders??????

I am geting pretty annoyed with people like you trying to take my e-douche status away from me.

 

[dilzy]

You're an idiot.

Please enlighten us by post pics of your frames that you have designed and built with the amazing welds.

I would trust putting myself or my wife on an Intense any day. I met Jeff and I have ridden a few different Intense bikes in the recent years and was unbelievably impressed with them. If I wasn't riding Yeti, I would be on an Intense in a heartbeat.

Gotta love the haters out there. Someone is living their dream, doing what they love, building a great product for the market and making revolutionary designs day after day for the good of the industry and all that you can do is hate on the internet.

Please tell us what you think are the perfect frames with incredible welds and amazing welders??????

I am geting pretty annoyed with people like you trying to take my e-douche status away from me.

I'm about to do some FEA on my design. When I get a chance I'll post some pics of my welding, but really not my point.

Whether you've met Jeff or not, he did design a bike where the seat tube contacted the tire, his excuse was that he wanted to give people race geo...The 951 CANNOT fit a chain guide properly, as the fricking lower yoke is in the way, so you can't rotate the chain guide foward enough, not really an acceptable oversight. The chainstay is such that you can't really run anything but shimano cranks, great imo, but **** for anyone that's sponsored by SRAM.

After examining a 951 frame rather closely, there's even dags hanging off some of the welds. You can see that the welds are sitting on top instead of flowing into the surrounding tube flush. The welds along the top tube half joins are all undercut (same as every Intense I've seen) and the shock mounts are welded at the ends, a mistake nearly every manufacturer makes, but one that shouldn't be there and Intense should know better.

Nicolai is an example of welding done properly, but I still think that their beads are a bit big, still, at least it appears they have decent penatation.

In fairness to Intense, these problems are present on many manufacturers frames, but when people including Intense put such emphasis on their "Made in the USA quality", then it really does expose them as a bit of a ruse.

I hardly think Intense are revolutionary and yet for all their funky tubing, they still forget basic things like pivot hardware and cable routing, all of which someone like Specialized had nailed years ago.

EDIT. I'd hardly call myself a fantastic welder, but that doesn't mean I don't know what a good weld is.

 

[iRider]

Irider, to me it seems you are getting a bit hung up on the "made in the USA thing".

I am not. I only question the logic of the manufacturers. For years they were telling us it is possible to produce affordable bikes overseas and it would be not possible in the US or EU. Now they are asking for prices that are the same or higher than boutique bikes made here. So somehow the logic is flawed. Were they selling us crap before and now that they manufacture very good bikes they have to charge the same as companies here? Or do the still produce cheaper but have bigger margins?
And I never questioned the quality of the bike, I just was disappointed that it is rather expensive for a frame made overseas. Same goes for other companies.

 

[iRider]

Hmmmmm, so what were these pics I saw not so long ago with a broken 951.....

One frame, not a full batch.

Never sen anything less than perfect when it comes to QC from the guys at Transition.

Really? You need glasses.

All Bikes break, but the guys at Transition seriously beat the **** out of there bikes to make sure it take a hell of a hit.

The Transition bikes are simple, easy to work on, and they work...Not so much for the Other bike..... Complicated linkages, thin ass tubing, and a nuthair short of a boutique bike. Yeah the"other" bike works, if you like the mad creaking you get from a Virtual pivot bike of this nature....But hey if thats what floats your boat... go for it

You are starting a VPP vs. SP discussion. BTW: we are talking about race bikes (like the new Transition). Light weight goes with thin tubing and if Transition wants to be competitive in the race segment of the market they too have to gamble and risk that a fat a$$ is taking their race bike down a skyscraper huck and is breaking it.

 

[iRider]

Nicolai is an example of welding done properly, but I still think that their beads are a bit big, still, at least it appears they have decent penatation.

Seriously, you are questioning Nicolai's welds? You must be an awesome welder and I can't wait to see your work!

 

[sethimus]

I am not. I only question the logic of the manufacturers. For years they were telling us it is possible to produce affordable bikes overseas and it would be not possible in the US or EU. Now they are asking for prices that are the same or higher than boutique bikes made here. So somehow the logic is flawed. Were they selling us crap before and now that they manufacture very good bikes they have to charge the same as companies here? Or do the still produce cheaper but have bigger margins?
And I never questioned the quality of the bike, I just was disappointed that it is rather expensive for a frame made overseas. Same goes for other companies.

thats because its not that cheap anymore to produce overseas due to higher material costs etc. also your currency is not THAT good anymore, so you have to pay more for the same stuff...

 

[dilzy]

Seriously, you are questioning Nicolai's welds? You must be an awesome welder and I can't wait to see your work!

Like I said, I'm not the worlds best welder by far, but I know what it should be. I just think Nicolais beads are over the top. I know what they are trying to do by lowering the stress concentration, but it adds up to a lot of weight, though maybe it means they can use smaller butts.

 

[DirtyMike]

You are starting a VPP vs. SP discussion. BTW: we are talking about race bikes (like the new Transition). Light weight goes with thin tubing and if Transition wants to be competitive in the race segment of the market they too have to gamble and risk that a fat a$$ is taking their race bike down a skyscraper huck and is breaking it.

I dont like vp bikes..... they make too much noise, and need to much attention.....Simple is great, specially when it works.


So what your telling me, is that In comparision of the tubing on the bikes. That the new TR450 is using thin tubing like alot of the other manf out there now? Ok lets compare some frame weights without shock

Blindside...8.6lbs
TR450......9.5lbs
cant find the 951 off hand, but if Transition was going with thinner tubing, dont you think there new frame would be lighter than the old frame?????

Again, if your soooo pro 951....Start a thread about it. Ill take teh transitions over intense myself anyday, and not because of price either.

 

[Jason4]

Seriously, you are questioning Nicolai's welds? You must be an awesome welder and I can't wait to see your work!

How is that any different than any of us questioning whether Sam Hill can beat Rennie or Peat? Someone is not required to be more skilled than someone else to determine their skill/quality.

 

[dhr-racer]

how pinkbike did this get....

 

[mtakahas]

First Transition that I actually like the looks of!

 

[Jason4]

$361 more buys you a US made frame from a company with a long history in making excellent downhill bikes. You know, this bike with the area code name.

How much more expensive do you think the frame would be if it was built in the US? I don't think it would close the $361 gap that you quote unless all of the machining and materials are sourced here too. If nothing else, Transition offers an alternative to the higher priced bikes and a good value.

Next time you have the great customer service on the phone ask them where they get their tubesets from. I'd be impressed if all the materials were sourced here too but not too surprised if I heard they were sourcing hydroformed tubes from overseas but welding them in sunny SoCal. Good on them if the entire process is kept in the US.

Building bikes overseas is about the bottom line but it seems that these days the overseas manufacturers are able to offer more for the money. I've looked over the TR450 briefly, as recently as yesterday, and obviously know the Revolt pretty well as I've been riding one since June and both frames have some nice features that I doubt could be done for the same price with American CNC time.

 

[Shepherdwong]

Good looking bike, any idea on arrival time or price as a complete?
Thanks!

 

[rickthewelder]

I'm about to do some FEA on my design. When I get a chance I'll post some pics of my welding, but really not my point.

Whether you've met Jeff or not, he did design a bike where the seat tube contacted the tire, his excuse was that he wanted to give people race geo...The 951 CANNOT fit a chain guide properly, as the fricking lower yoke is in the way, so you can't rotate the chain guide foward enough, not really an acceptable oversight. The chainstay is such that you can't really run anything but shimano cranks, great imo, but **** for anyone that's sponsored by SRAM.

After examining a 951 frame rather closely, there's even dags hanging off some of the welds. You can see that the welds are sitting on top instead of flowing into the surrounding tube flush. The welds along the top tube half joins are all undercut (same as every Intense I've seen) and the shock mounts are welded at the ends, a mistake nearly every manufacturer makes, but one that shouldn't be there and Intense should know better.

Nicolai is an example of welding done properly, but I still think that their beads are a bit big, still, at least it appears they have decent penatation.

In fairness to Intense, these problems are present on many manufacturers frames, but when people including Intense put such emphasis on their "Made in the USA quality", then it really does expose them as a bit of a ruse.

I hardly think Intense are revolutionary and yet for all their funky tubing, they still forget basic things like pivot hardware and cable routing, all of which someone like Specialized had nailed years ago.

EDIT. I'd hardly call myself a fantastic welder, but that doesn't mean I don't know what a good weld is.

Hi Dilzy,
I am a fantastic welder, been doing it for 31 years, welding @ Intense for the last 5 of those.
I am AWS D1.2 certified in TIG.
You make a complete fool of yourself saying our monocoque welds are '' undercut''
They are pulsed, I am the only one that does it. I learned the technique on Patriot missile fins when I worked in Aerospace, where by the way I spent 26 years. Got to retire from it.
And I don't mean pulsed by using your foot, I mean it by setting the ACP on my machine, and knowing how to read the puddle.
Pulsing is a low heat application, that insures complete full penetration.
I actually put a bead on the inside, as well as on the outside in one pass. It is like high pressure pipe welding, which BTW, I am also certified ASME section 9, stick and tig.
You don't know what you are talking about, so remember this, sometimes it is better to close your mouth and be thought of as a fool, than to open it up and prove it.

Now, take my advice and let the welding stuff go.
I could mop the floor with you.
RTW.

 

[joelsman]

expected in december for arrival.

 

[rickthewelder]

Intense bikes are built by absolute muppets. The welds have zero penetration and are done at far too low temperature. Their sole goal is that stack of dimes look, when to anyone in the know the welds are absolute crap.

Their pivot hardware is poorly designed and one only has to look at the 951 dropout design, or it's complete incompatability with a properly set up chain guide to know that Jeff hasn't got a clue.

Hey A$$HOLE ,
You've been online here for 1 hour now.......
Having a problem googling that ACP thing ?
Man up !!

RTW.