Im interested in both i want to ride street park mostly and some dj. i want to know which one people prefer and why.
transition top vs blackmarket riot/mob
- Thread starter bballboy388
- Start date
Mob Cos There Kewl
what about the mob makes it 200 more then the riot
i just got my self a Riot and i love the way it rides and my wallet loves the price.
Aluminum vs Steel. Mountain bike frames/components/etc are expensive as all get out. I miss the affordable prices of BMX bikes.
so the only difference is the riot is aluminum? and has anyone ridden both if so witch what felt better or worse and for what reason.
uhh both the riot and mob are steel, not aluminum. The difference is the quality of steel, and where it is made.
couldn't be more wrong.
riot has a different, less costly, steel tubeset compared to the mob. same geo though
I meant: "Aluminum vs Steel?" not "Aluminum vs Steel."
crack kills
the mob is made in the us
the riot is made overseas (somewhere)
the transition is also a nice frame,
they all have good geometry and really would depend on what you want and can afford.
Aluminum frames from what i know have a bit more flex and may be a bit lighter dependingon the maker, steel is just sturdy, feels good, also can be light depending on frame maker.
the riot is made overseas (somewhere)
the transition is also a nice frame,
they all have good geometry and really would depend on what you want and can afford.
Aluminum frames from what i know have a bit more flex and may be a bit lighter dependingon the maker, steel is just sturdy, feels good, also can be light depending on frame maker.
Aluminum flexes less actually, it is an extremely stiff metal.
transition is heavier and the roit/mob has a shorter rear end and a steeper HA.
i thought of it the oposit way, coming from the aliminum kona scrap i used to ride the riot feels stiffer and geo suits me better. Eiter way they are all sweet frames hooked up the right way.
steel is a lot more compliant, it has a bit more give to it which offers a really smooth ride.
Thats why people like steel road bikes vs. Aluminum, because aluminum just bounces around on road vibration and steel doesnt, but oviously Carbon does better in both weight and vibrations.
Its amazing what you learn selling bikes at a shop.
Its amazing what you learn selling bikes at a shop.
Its made in the US by S&M
Ha ha. Yep - exactly.Its made in the US by S&M
well i just found out i can go through the shop i work at for transition but not for blackmarket so ill probably go with the transition.
go with the black market, its lighter, stronger, and in my opinoin rides a lot better.
How is it stronger? You are talking out of your anus my friend.
I really don't think it ****ing matters. Both great bikes, you'll adapt to either within minutes, same amount of smiles per pedal strokes.
As a black Market owner, I'd say the TOP is the better deal. But only because I wouldn't compare the Riot to the TOP, only the Mob.
And if it ever came down to a warranty issue, I THINK it would be a whole bunch easier to call Transition directly and talk to Kevin or Kyle(or Cam now, apparently!) versus trying to get ahold of Carter.
As a black Market owner, I'd say the TOP is the better deal. But only because I wouldn't compare the Riot to the TOP, only the Mob.
And if it ever came down to a warranty issue, I THINK it would be a whole bunch easier to call Transition directly and talk to Kevin or Kyle(or Cam now, apparently!) versus trying to get ahold of Carter.
thats good to hear, only reason i compared them directly is cause there prices are basically the same.
Sorry - that's incorrect.
Steel (1020, 4140, 4340, etc) is exactly 3 times stiffer than 6061 Aluminum. 30MM psi vs. 10MM psi (7075 Al is about 10.3MM psi)
However, steel by volume is about 2.9x as heavy as Al. (~0.283lb/cu.in. vs. 0.098lb/cu.in.)
I think generally Al framesets are stiffer due to the larger diameter tubes and thicker tubing needed to resist the bending.
One thing that Al has going against it in a real bad way is that even under extremely tiny amounts of bending, it will break. Steel doesn't have this property nor does Ti. Look up fatigue life and fatigue limit if you're interested.
I could go on for days...there's giant thick textbooks written on this subject that can probably explain it better than I.
why did you bother explaining it?
I assume he was talking about bikes, and in that sence, yes, aluminum is stiffer then steel as far as comprable frames go in the same weight range.
Typically a steel frame will be built to be about the same weight as an aluminum frame, but aluminum uses more material so the frame can hold, and is stiffer, but steel, at the size tubing it is used on bike frames, allows more flex.
why bother arguing something that doesnt apply to the subject?
Because statements such as: "Aluminum flexes less actually, it is an extremely stiff metal." are incorrect and can(will) be taken literally? Where's the argument? Was I being an ass?
How is what I posted not relevant to the subject? Seems pretty relevant for someone that, for example, wanted to design and build bikes. Just because you don't find it interesting or relevant doesn't mean that others aren't interested in learning why rather than just accepting.
seemed fairly pointless to me. There aren't any aluminum frames being discussed in this thread, not to mention what you just stated goes completely opposite of what I have experienced and heard in the bicycle industry for well over a decade... I'm not here to argue, maybe the numbers prove me wrong...
Also, the New '08 TOP apparantly has shorter chainstays than the Mob or Riot.
How much does the Riot frame weigh? TOP is down just under 6lb now I believe.
no brainer.....
the black market has a bottle opener in the frame.
the black market has a bottle opener in the frame.
sorry - I won't go about cluttering up any more threads with facts or correcting any more misnomers while offering explanations for real world experiences that may indicate the contrary.
hey, go ahead and post away, I'm not the police, not gonna stop ya'. Just voicing my opinion that it seemed like the start of a rather invalid discussion here that has gone on for a long time prior (although you didn't begin it, just carried it out). Shall we also tell everyone what we think about SS vs. 9spd too? not trying to rub it it, just showing how I saw that topic being carried out... no worries though, so don't stress it.
sorry - I won't go about cluttering up any more threads with facts or correcting any more misnomers while offering explanations for real world experiences that may indicate the contrary.
to the OP, something else to consider, did you want to go with press-fit headset, or with the campy standard impact integrated? Mob has giuri tabs, but really, when's the last time you saw one with a gyro? also, you'd need to run a separate seatpost clamp on the TOP, where the mob and riot both have integrated, little differences, but different non-the-less.
Actually, the Riot needs a clamp, and NOTHING ****ing fits it. Pain in the ass. And the Riot is just under a pound heavier than the Mob. I don't know what the TOP weighs, and I'm sticking with my argument of who cares? Same damn bike within a few degrees or ounces here and there, good or bad on both. Buy a bike, ride the bike, crash the bike, repeat. Oh, and be sure to laugh a little while doing so!
Oh, and my silly little brother runs a Gyro on his Mob! But no one really knows why...
Oh, and my silly little brother runs a Gyro on his Mob! But no one really knows why...
Wow there is a $hitload of ignorant statements in about 60% of this thread.
OP I will set you straight. First off the Mob is made from TrueTemper SuperTherm tubing which is custom drawn and butted specifically for S&M Bikes. S&M welds the Mob in the US using US manufactured high end $$ tubing. S&M is very well known for producing some of the best CrMo frames on the market.
The Mob has drilled holes for a Gyro install, a chainstay brace that is actually a beer bottle opener, an integrated seat clamp and a few litle differences. Available in horizontal or vertical dropouts and with or without ISCG tabs.
The Riot has the same geometry as the Mob but is made from a less expensive tube set and is welded overseas (not by S&M). The Riot comes in only 2 sizes and horizontal drops only as opposed to the Mob (5 frame sizes and vertical or horizontal drops) so production costs are less overall. Hence the $200 difference.The Riot uses a standard clamp designed for a standard 27.2mm frame. Get a Surly MTB clamp.
The Mob is just under a 1/2 pound lighter than the Riot but the real difference is the feel of the frame. I owned a Riot and then swapped to a Mob and there is a BIG difference in feel. The bike handles better and feels much more forgiving than the Riot did. Now both of them compared to the TOP is a world of difference in frame feel. As far as weight the older frames were over 6lbs but the new 08' weight is now under 6lbs (claimed 5.6 but I think more like 5.9). There new design is terrific and they really cleaned up the geometry.
A couple things to consider are the BB height, chainstay length, head angle and overall wheel base of the complete build. Also the new TOP uses a Spanish BB so you have to go with a Spanish BB set-up for the cranks. No big deal but just different than the Euro BB on the Mob/Riot.
An aluminum frame is stiffer than a CrMo frame as the tubing wall thickness is smaller but the diameter of the tube is usually larger than a steel tube. This creats a stiffer frame overall. As far as the steel vs. aluminum argument different people like different characteristics. For me riding park and DJ I find that the CrMo is just a better frame material. It does not cause as much shock to the wrists and body compared to aluminum. In addition Aluminum frames will eventually weaken and break at some point. That is just a fact with Aluminum. Sure it may never happen in the time you own a bike, but I build my bikes to last over 5 years. I would not want to be riding any aluminum HT past 5 years regardless of manufacturer.
So in the end either frame is absolutely the best from each company in my opinion. I have owned 4 different (still own 2) Transition frames and they are a tremendous company to deal with. I have talked to and worked with Keven and Kyle over 20 times for different frames, parts, questions, etc. I have had the same experience with Mondo at BlkMrkt. He knows his stuff and is a great resource. Really either way you go you can't go wrong.
Now comes the swing pics. Tell me you don't want this machine:
Not complete without an action shot...
OP I will set you straight. First off the Mob is made from TrueTemper SuperTherm tubing which is custom drawn and butted specifically for S&M Bikes. S&M welds the Mob in the US using US manufactured high end $$ tubing. S&M is very well known for producing some of the best CrMo frames on the market.
The Mob has drilled holes for a Gyro install, a chainstay brace that is actually a beer bottle opener, an integrated seat clamp and a few litle differences. Available in horizontal or vertical dropouts and with or without ISCG tabs.
The Riot has the same geometry as the Mob but is made from a less expensive tube set and is welded overseas (not by S&M). The Riot comes in only 2 sizes and horizontal drops only as opposed to the Mob (5 frame sizes and vertical or horizontal drops) so production costs are less overall. Hence the $200 difference.The Riot uses a standard clamp designed for a standard 27.2mm frame. Get a Surly MTB clamp.
The Mob is just under a 1/2 pound lighter than the Riot but the real difference is the feel of the frame. I owned a Riot and then swapped to a Mob and there is a BIG difference in feel. The bike handles better and feels much more forgiving than the Riot did. Now both of them compared to the TOP is a world of difference in frame feel. As far as weight the older frames were over 6lbs but the new 08' weight is now under 6lbs (claimed 5.6 but I think more like 5.9). There new design is terrific and they really cleaned up the geometry.
A couple things to consider are the BB height, chainstay length, head angle and overall wheel base of the complete build. Also the new TOP uses a Spanish BB so you have to go with a Spanish BB set-up for the cranks. No big deal but just different than the Euro BB on the Mob/Riot.
An aluminum frame is stiffer than a CrMo frame as the tubing wall thickness is smaller but the diameter of the tube is usually larger than a steel tube. This creats a stiffer frame overall. As far as the steel vs. aluminum argument different people like different characteristics. For me riding park and DJ I find that the CrMo is just a better frame material. It does not cause as much shock to the wrists and body compared to aluminum. In addition Aluminum frames will eventually weaken and break at some point. That is just a fact with Aluminum. Sure it may never happen in the time you own a bike, but I build my bikes to last over 5 years. I would not want to be riding any aluminum HT past 5 years regardless of manufacturer.
So in the end either frame is absolutely the best from each company in my opinion. I have owned 4 different (still own 2) Transition frames and they are a tremendous company to deal with. I have talked to and worked with Keven and Kyle over 20 times for different frames, parts, questions, etc. I have had the same experience with Mondo at BlkMrkt. He knows his stuff and is a great resource. Really either way you go you can't go wrong.
Now comes the swing pics. Tell me you don't want this machine:
Not complete without an action shot...
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For DJ and Street I would think a HT would be best.
I could maybe help you out if you click the second link below ...
I could maybe help you out if you click the second link below ...
dayum that mob is hot dirtbag