[rosenamedpoop]

I'd like to have some knowledge based insight into this comparison.

I'm going to be setting up a semi-mini DH rig at 7" and 7" for racing and trails. Up until now my head has been focused on reducing the travel on a Boxxer Team to 7", but I've heard really good things about the Totem (1.5 HT) lately.

What's the word on Totem for DH? Coil or Air? Why? Advantages in stiffness with a Boxxer? Suppleness? Small bump? Big bump?

Also what's axle to crown on the two forks? (minus 18mm on the travel adjusted Boxxer)

 

[Acadian]

so many questions in one short post my question to you - would you run a 1.5 totem or 1 1/8?

On courses that only require 7" of travel, the Totem would be perfect. Keep in mind that the 1.5 Totem will be stiffer than the 1 1/8.

The Totem offers Mission Control - which isn't offered on the BoXXer. That's another thing to consider.

AC to crown is pretty much the same when comparing the 8" Boxxer to the Totem. Reducer the BoXXer's travel to 7" and it's an inch lower than the Totem.

After riding both - I'd say the Totem is a tad stiffer than the BoXXer

Both the Totem coil and Solo air have buttery travel. The nice thing about the air is that you have the option of setting it up stiffer or plusher depending on what you're riding. it's also lighter than the coil. The coil also has a much more linear feel than the air.

With the BoXXer you can move the crowns up and down and bit and adjust the ride height/head angle. Something you can't do with the Totem...another thing to think about.

just my $.02 worth..

 

[rosenamedpoop]

so many questions in one short post my question to you - would you run a 1.5 totem or 1 1/8?

On courses that only require 7" of travel, the Totem would be perfect. Keep in mind that the 1.5 Totem will be stiffer than the 1 1/8.

1.5" for sure. Just edited 1st post.

The Totem offers Mission Control - which isn't offered on the BoXXer. That's another thing to consider.

AC to crown is pretty much the same when comparing the 8" Boxxer to the Totem. Reducer the BoXXer's travel to 7" and it's an inch lower than the Totem.

After riding both - I'd say the Totem is a tad stiffer than the BoXXer

Both the Totem coil and Solo air have buttery travel. The nice thing about the air is that you have the option of setting it up stiffer or plusher depending on what you're riding. it's also lighter than the coil. The coil also has a much more linear feel than the air.

With the BoXXer you can move the crowns up and down and bit and adjust the ride height/head angle. Something you can't do with the Totem...another thing to think about.

just my $.02 worth..

Thanks for the good break down.

I'm leaning towards the coil for sure, as I think the weight sacrifice is almost always outweighed by DH performance. Which is also why I would go with a Boxxer Team instead of a WC.

The Totem 1.5" actually feels stiffer than a Boxxer?

 

[rockwool]

The Totem 1.5" actually feels stiffer than a Boxxer?

Momma's burger is better than Mc'Donalds? -Eddie Murphy in Delirious or Raw

 

[frorider]

acadian's summary 'bout covers everything.

i've had mixed results with air forks over the years -- which might explain why most of my forks are coil, not air, even on my hardtail singlespeed -- but so far i'm really liking the 1.5 HT totem air. like acadian sez, the spring rate adjustability is nice to have.

 

[OGRipper]

I have a coil Totem on a new bullit and agree with everything Acadian said. Mission Control is an improvement over Motion Control for sure. As for stiffness, I haven't ridden a 7" boxxer in years but the Totem feels stiffer to me fore and aft as compared to the 8" WC boxxers I've ridden in the last year or so. Plus, x-ups are teh fun.

Have only done a couple rides on the air Totem. The 2 Step model had some initial problems with the travel adjust, not sure if it's been worked out. The Solo Air (non-2 Step) version should be plenty reliable. As for feel, yes a bit more progressive, but less so at lower pressures, so if you are a lighter rider not as big an issue.

 

[rosenamedpoop]

The Solo Air (non-2 Step) version should be plenty reliable. As for feel, yes a bit more progressive, but less so at lower pressures, so if you are a lighter rider not as big an issue.

That progressive air feel is good for DJ's, but not to my liking for DH. I'm pretty big too, so maybe that increases the progressive feel of air.

Sounds like the Totem 1.5" coil is getting a solid thumbs up for DH.

How's reliability?

 

[OGRipper]

How's reliability?

I've only had mine for about two months but so far no problems whatsoever. It took a couple rides to break in but since then it's all been good. I'm 200lbs and have been riding with the stock spring, but I get some pretty hard bottoming on bigger hits so I plan to try the next one up at some point.

 

[rosenamedpoop]

Are Rockshox weight claims correct at 5.9lbs for the air and 6.3lbs for coil?

Anybody anal enough to weigh post steerer trim/pre bike mount?

 

[OGRipper]

Are Rockshox weight claims correct at 5.9lbs for the air and 6.3lbs for coil?

Anybody anal enough to weigh post steerer trim/pre bike mount?

I have no idea, but Acadian said his was right around 6.3:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/2007-RockShox-Totem-Coil.html

 

[Acadian]

I have no idea, but Acadian said his was right around 6.3:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/2007-RockShox-Totem-Coil.html

yup on digital scale..

coil - 6.3 lbs (with Maxle)
Air - 5.8 lbs (with Maxle)

 

[rosenamedpoop]

Can a hollow non-maxle axle be used to shave weight?

 

[Dogboy]

Can a hollow non-maxle axle be used to shave weight?

Since the lowers have no pinch bolts, the axle needs a mechanism to expand and retain the wheel. So in a word, no.

 

[rosenamedpoop]

Since the lowers have no pinch bolts, the axle needs a mechanism to expand and retain the wheel. So in a word, no.

That's right, forgot about the lack of pinch bolts.

 

[Funkster?]

I'm going through the same decision right now, just curious what you went with?

 

[rosenamedpoop]

I'm going through the same decision right now, just curious what you went with?

Haven't decided yet. It'll be either a reduced Boxxer Team, or a 1.5" Totem coil. I'll post pics when it's all done. I promise it'll be very special, but it'll be a while.

 

[Fulton]

Can a hollow non-maxle axle be used to shave weight?[/QUOTE
Well, kinda, but the axle needs to be modded, or custom fabbed. I'm working on one for a bud's lyric, which I would assume uses the same axle. I'll post some pics/report if we get it to work.

 

[-C-]

I'd also agree about the 1.5" Totem being stiffer than an '06 Boxxer Team.

Maxle is a lot better too.

 

[rosenamedpoop]

[/QUOTE
Well, kinda, but the axle needs to be modded, or custom fabbed. I'm working on one for a bud's lyric, which I would assume uses the same axle. I'll post some pics/report if we get it to work.

Sweet, I'd like to hear about it. I can't remember this last time I got a front flat in Santa Cruz.

 

[gratiflying]

how do you reduce travel on a boxxer WC?

 

[kona-ryder]

You dont.

 

[PatBranch]

I'm pretty sure you can use all travel spacers.

 

[rosenamedpoop]

how do you reduce travel on a boxxer WC?

 

[bikenweed]

You do realize that you MUST cut the spring on the Team in order to lower the travel, right? CaveDweller's instructions are for a Team with a World Cup air cartridge. The air cartridge allows you to run a bit less pressure to compensate for the smaller volume. The Team, without a WC air cartridge, ends up putting 1" of preload on the spring, and it'll ride super weird cuz of this, mainly just being waaaay too soft.

You could probably just use a chop saw and a really tight vise to cut the spring down, and start at like a .5" reduction in length. Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[rosenamedpoop]

You do realize that you MUST cut the spring on the Team in order to lower the travel, right? CaveDweller's instructions are for a Team with a World Cup air cartridge. The air cartridge allows you to run a bit less pressure to compensate for the smaller volume. The Team, without a WC air cartridge, ends up putting 1" of preload on the spring, and it'll ride super weird cuz of this, mainly just being waaaay too soft.

You could probably just use a chop saw and a really tight vise to cut the spring down, and start at like a .5" reduction in length. Good luck, and keep us posted!

I haven't done a travel reduction on a coil Boxxer, and I understand that you have had issues with your spring. To that I say: so what, cut the freakin spring!

Two other points are:

1. Nobody else I've talked to about this has had the same problem as you.

2. Nobody mentioned travel reduction to a coil Boxxer here. The posted diagram was in response to this:

Originally Posted by gratiflying

"how do you reduce travel on a boxxer WC?"

 

[gratiflying]

thanks very much, good info to have if i want to have the lowest 180mm travel fork out there. anyone ridden with this setup? i can't imagine a huge performance difference than stock 203mm setting?

 

[buildyourown]

I've chopped springs before on my marz and it was easier than I thought. Cut spring. Heat with torch. Bend end of spring slightly. Grind end flat.
I then went to a hardware store and found a 1" long spring that resembled the neg spring and stuck in in there to eliminate slop.

 

[bikenweed]

Up until now my head has been focused on reducing the travel on a Boxxer Team to 7", but I've heard really good things about the Totem (1.5 HT) lately.

2. Nobody mentioned travel reduction to a coil Boxxer here.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all smart ass, I just wanna help you out with your decision. Since you asked about reducing the travel on a Team (coil) in the first post, I just wanted to be sure you know about having to cut the spring down. Everyone I've talked to has told me that cutting a spring properly is quite difficult, which makes sense. I didn't try cutting it down yet, as I'm pretty accustomed to the 8" setting now.

You could also probably shorten the aluminum rod underneath the spring. Either a 7" travel Boxxer's negative spring rod or just cutting and re-threading might be sufficient, but I haven't tried this yet. I've only lowered my travel by lowering the negative spring an inch, and the result wasn't what I wanted. It would really suck to buy a fork just to do this with, and then find out it doesn't ride well at all!

Hope ya get something you like, and that works for your bike, then ride it all over tarnations. e-hugs!

 

[bikenweed]

I've chopped springs before on my marz and it was easier than I thought. Cut spring. Heat with torch. Bend end of spring slightly. Grind end flat.

Well hey, there we go. How'd you cut the spring? Chop saw? How'd it ride with the modification?

 

[rosenamedpoop]

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all smart ass, I just wanna help you out with your decision.

Man, no offense taken at all, I just want to be clear!

It would really suck to buy a fork just to do this with, and then find out it doesn't ride well at all!

Hope ya get something you like, and that works for your bike, then ride it all over tarnations. e-hugs!

No doubt that would suck, guess somebody's gotta try though eh? Thanks for the help!

 

[teaguers]

On the note of the solo-air being more progressive--

I love the feel of my Totem solo air, i think it likes to use all of its travel more than the boxxer team i used to have, but i think it definitely bottoms out easier. I think the blackbox speedstack in the boxxer adds a lot of bottom out resistance. Wish they would make one for the totem.

ps the totem feels as much if not more stiff than the boxxer, mines a 1.5.