I was just wondering what everyone's opinions were on treason. Is it punishable by death? I think so.
Nick
Nick
Treason
- Thread starter drtbikrr
- Start date
Do you have a working definition for us to go by on this? The definition itself may be debatable by some.
Alright, we were discussing this in school the other day when that scientist gave the russians some of the technology to build a nuclear bomb. So I guess that I define it as someone that has leaked vital information to our enemies.
Nick
Well the death penalty may not fit everyone's perspective of proper punishment, but I think most would agree that individuals that willingly act to damage/cause harm to the nation they are citizens of by either sharing vital information they are privy to, or by acting in a terrorist fashion should qualify for some form of punishment that would then render them incapable of further acts of treason.
How's that?
Very generic.
How is that for a politicians answer everyone?!?! *golf clap* Answering a question with no idea what should be done...other than in the vaguest sense.
lol sorry Jr_B it just sounded very much like a presidential candidate answer.....you try to tell us something? Jr_B in 2008!
Drtbikrr,
Sounds lke that is a no from Jr_B.
Hey...I can't deny my training forever!Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Very generic.
How is that for a politicians answer everyone?!?! *golf clap* Answering a question with no idea what should be done...other than in the vaguest sense.
lol sorry Jr_B it just sounded very much like a presidential candidate answer.....you try to tell us something? Jr_B in 2008!
Drtbikrr,
Sounds lke that is a no from Jr_B.
Besides...I can't run in 2008...too young :devil:
And I have this horrible love of a particular online forum that would prevent me from successfully hiding my background
. 
Ann Coulter tends to define it as disagreeing with a republican president. 
So should we have been executed when we established this country? So we can no longer stand up against our government. I think yeah if you sell nuke plans or somthing that is just gaining monetary reimbursment, you know being greedy. Those type of moralless bastards should pay dearly. However our government is seriously flickted. If a person does somthing against the government trying to better the country well thats a different story. We are supposed to have that right.
let's stick with the nukes thing... Pakistan forgave their traitor. Which I found questionable. But if someone was working at a nuke development plant, found out his country was developing nukes and ratted them out, well, I'm thinking he's a traitor and needs jail time. He doesn't need to be killed cuz he has no other secrets to give away.
In some eyes, many eyes what he did was justifiable. I suppose every country has the right to bear arms. They should do it openly though. That is deffinately different then if they had come up with a new weapon, and he sold the blueprints for profit.
That's a rather broad and open ended question.
But, I don't support the death penalty, so my answer would be: It is punishable by death (in the US) but I personally don't think it should be.
But, I don't support the death penalty, so my answer would be: It is punishable by death (in the US) but I personally don't think it should be.
I dont really think they should do it openly. If Sri Lanka knows that Bangladesh only has 2 AK-47s and a jar of rancid mayonnaise, what's to stop them from invading? Not knowing what the other guy has keeps the peace.
Its like gun control. If you knew no houses had guns in them, you'd rob at will if you were so inclined. The mystery and fear of death is real.
Well, I think the first thing to do is make sure that everyone is on the same "playing field", that is, everyone's referring to the same thing.
Therefore, from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, 1996:
treason
\Trea"son\, n. [OE. tresun, treisun, traisoun, OF. tra["i]son, F. trahison, L. traditio a giving up, a delivering up, fr. tradere to give up, betray. See Traitor, and cf. Tradition.] 1. The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery.
The treason of the murthering in the bed. --Chaucer.
I think this part is important to note!!!
Note: In monarchies, the killing of the sovereign, or an attempt to take his life, is treason. In England, to imagine or compass the death of the king, or of the queen consort, or of the heir apparent to the crown, is high treason, as are many other offenses created by statute. In the United States, treason is confined to the actual levying of war against the United States, or to an adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
2. Loosely, the betrayal of any trust or confidence; treachery; perfidy.
If he be false, she shall his treason see. --Chaucer.
Therefore, from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, 1996:
treason
\Trea"son\, n. [OE. tresun, treisun, traisoun, OF. tra["i]son, F. trahison, L. traditio a giving up, a delivering up, fr. tradere to give up, betray. See Traitor, and cf. Tradition.] 1. The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery.
The treason of the murthering in the bed. --Chaucer.
I think this part is important to note!!!
Note: In monarchies, the killing of the sovereign, or an attempt to take his life, is treason. In England, to imagine or compass the death of the king, or of the queen consort, or of the heir apparent to the crown, is high treason, as are many other offenses created by statute. In the United States, treason is confined to the actual levying of war against the United States, or to an adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
2. Loosely, the betrayal of any trust or confidence; treachery; perfidy.
If he be false, she shall his treason see. --Chaucer.
so I still think, that the punishment should reflect the crime. If the results of they're treason is people dieing, well duh. However if the results of the treason frees an inslaved person, cmon. To put a deiffinate awnser on this is to say, all government is right. (Wich from what I've read from N8 is true, as long as its a republican government.)
Well by your comment above, it sounds like you would support an international body responsible for determining "treason"? It's fair enough to say that a nation has the "right" to self-determination. This is changing, especially with the US the way it is now sticking it's nose into everyone's business...
But...if you are found guilty of treason against your sovereign nation, then you should then be subjected to the penalties your nation has in place for treason (in the US it's death).
If you are treasonous towards your sovereign nation, but run away to another nation to hide then obviously they cannot do anything to you, unless the nation who is harboring you forces you to return.
So - if the treasonous action was done in an effort to "free an enslaved person" no matter how you and I might feel about that, if they acted treasonously against their sovereign nation and they are caught, then that nation has the right to do as it pleases with that individual.
That to me is a problem. Our constitution, grants us certain rights. However our government has gotten so obnoxious, we cannot use these rights without them coming down on us. Not that I personally have a problem with anything. However, I'm still disturbed by things like waco. Our checks and balances system seems unjustly unbalanced. I think I would have been happier back in the 60s when people actually believed in what the government was doing, or at least what they where told.
I think you have some things mixed up. We do have rights and provided that you know what they are, you can use those rights to your heart's content. But the constitution does not make any allowance to anyone to commit treason...
Simply put:
1) You can say anything you want about the government and how angry you are about it, that's your right as an American citizen and plenty of citizens do it every day.
2) You cannot, however, make an attempt to overthrow the government. The government is supposed to be a service of the people (argue that as much as you want, but that's what it's supposed to be) and is supposed to do its best to represent the people. Therefore an attempt to overthrow this government is an attempt to overthrow our entire way of life, whether you do so yourself or you provide assistance to another entity in its effort to overthrow our government. That's why the punishment for the crime is so extreme in the United States.
A person doesn't like that? No problem, ship out, go to another country. But as long a person's taking advantage of being a citizen of the United States, that person had better not do anything to try damage the government (i.e. THE PEOPLE) of the United States.
It would be immpossible for any government to be perfect. We can't expect that our government with the power it has become, could be unflawed. I just think that sometimes our government targets certain groups, unjustly. The whole "fight the system" attitude certainly is not the best approach. However some of these groups make good points. However our government is unwaivering in its points of view. Example: I know a 20 year old kid serving 5 years for having a couple hits of acid on him. The max is 10years per hit. Thats ridiculous.
I don't wanna start the whole drug thing, but thats the best example I could think of right now. It was for him, he wasn't selling it! They should get him help, not cage him up. Our government is feeling like a superbeing, and I think its gunna come back and kick us in the ass.
I don't wanna start the whole drug thing, but thats the best example I could think of right now. It was for him, he wasn't selling it! They should get him help, not cage him up. Our government is feeling like a superbeing, and I think its gunna come back and kick us in the ass.
Couple of things,
1. I am still defining treason as betrayal to your country (think that has been established, just making sure though)
2. Silver (I think that's who said it, i have a bad memory) why don't you believe in the death penalty?
3. Getting 5 years in prison for acid is completely reasonable, he knew the risks and he got caught, boohoo for him.
1. I am still defining treason as betrayal to your country (think that has been established, just making sure though)
2. Silver (I think that's who said it, i have a bad memory) why don't you believe in the death penalty?
3. Getting 5 years in prison for acid is completely reasonable, he knew the risks and he got caught, boohoo for him.
It's the one penalty that you can't rescind.
The case against the death penalty isn't made by saying "But Osama deserves to die!" Sure, he does (killing him versus imprisoning him may be counterproductive, but that is another thread), but when you kill him, you make it easier for the government to do the same thing to another criminal (or suspect.) Then you eventually end up at the point where you execute an innocent man.
My faith in the justice system is not anywhere close to a level that would make me feel comfortable with executions.
But what about all those scumbags that got to live out their miserable excuses for lives when they deserve to die for killing someone's mother, or father, or son, or daughter? I think it's totally worth the risk to kill someone for killing someone else, eye for an eye.
Those scumbags got lucky. I'm willing to let them live so that the family of an innocent man doesn't have to wonder why the state killed him.
believe it or not, I think that I have to agree with silver. I do think an eye for an eye is right. However I have no faith in our legal system. They let OJ go for gods sake. Or how about how they pigeon hole people, law enforcement, and the whole judicial system is to opinionated. Now if there is absolute proof that and individual commited a crime, like say a video taped execution, well then I say, nuke em!