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Trojans with iPods; looking for your back door

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
So, what you're really saying here is that you want to tell everyone else that they should be (and that you are) - how did you put it? - "proactive and responsible" yet you are unwilling to make a small sacrifice in your frivolous tech toys to do the same.

Kinda sad, really, that you think you can lecture everyone on these ideals, rant and rave about Apple's poor environmental practices, and then turn around and buy their product simply because there was this-or-that petty feature you were unwilling to give up. One of two things is happening here. Either you have totally lost all perspective on how important a stupid MP3 player is in the scheme of things, or you are just a sad, sad man who needs to lecture others with a do-as-I-say, not-as-I-do mentality.

Either way, you need to stop it. Nobody can even post about Macs or iPods any more without you ruining the threads because you're completely out of control with your argumentative nature. If someone says one stinking thing that you disagree with, you will scream until you're blue in the face instead of having a few back-and-forth posts and forgetting about it like a normal person.
Yeah whats sad is Mac fanboys lecturing how bad PC or Microsoft is and on the otherhand everday they use hardware or software that comes directly from the PC. They say how bad it is when their computers these days are almost exclusively commodity PC parts and technology.

They rant and rave about how bad MS is and yet still have to use MS software or code all the time. They tout how they can now run Windows in various ways on the Mac. Their computer is filled with direct or third party licensed MS/Intel/AMD/whatever technology - hundreds of patents from lowly PCs. Then after they are done they go home and play their Xbox. So you are telling me I'm the hypocrite but they aren't. If they hate Microsoft so much they can drop their MS enchanced toys from their worldwide monopoly, its easy to do :happydance: Things are all so simple and clear cut, right?
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
402
NC
:rolleyes:

syadasti, sometimes I just have to remind myself that you're smart enough to not really believe some of the crap that comes out of your own mouth, and that you must have just become insane for the moment.

You don't really buy into the age-old, "but... but... he's doing it, too!" argument, do you?
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
You don't really buy into the age-old, "but... but... he's doing it, too!" argument, do you?
No I buy into the argument that monopolies limit choice for consumers and are by and large a bad thing and so most developed nations. Nobody is a hyprocrite when they have no other viable choice - there aren't any.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
402
NC
I see. God forbid that you, you know, just not carry 80gb of music around with you all the time because you feel so strongly about Apple.

Can't get by with a 30gb Toshiba Gigabeat, or a Creative Zen? The Cowan iAudio doesn't play your music? iRiver just doesn't have a headphone jack?
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
The purpose of high capacity HDD players is to carry everything and maybe even other content otherwise people use flash players. When I had my Karma I had about 15GB, I have more than double that now. I've got burned various times by Apple (newton), Rio(karma), cars, bike parts, whatever by buying fringe products that have little support, proprietary parts, and verge on being discontinued. Those aren't viable choices for a variety of reasons.

Why doesn't eveyone run 100% free open source software - it COULD in theory work for everyone?

Who the h*ll blindly supports and approves everything a company does just because you own or use their products? There is no voice of reason in doing that.

Are you one of the crazed yahoos who says you should love America or leave it? We should always support Bush, as he said 'You are either with us or against us'. Everything is neat and clean...black and white, right?
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
402
NC
The purpose of high capacity HDD players is to carry everything and maybe even other content otherwise people use flash players. When I had my Karma I had about 15GB, I have more than double that now. I've got burned various times by Apple (newton), Rio(karma), cars, bike parts, whatever by buying fringe products that have little support, proprietary parts, and verge on being discontinued. Those aren't viable choices for a variety of reasons.

Why doesn't eveyone run 100% free open source software - it COULD in theory work for everyone?

Who the h*ll blindly supports and approves everything a company does just because you own or use their products? There is no voice of reason in doing that.

Are you one of the crazed yahoos who says you should love America or leave it? We should always support Bush, as he said 'You are either with us or against us'. Everything is neat and clean...black and white, right?
Wow...

Just... wow.

Yep, everything is black and white. A sacrifice of a few GB is exactly the same as massive incompatibility with popular programs, completely user-unfriendly configurations, lack of proper technical support, and the total inability to fix your computer without research, hacking of text config files and good technical competancy.

I'm a strong Bush supporter, too, I don't think he's at all a massively incompetent moron, and loving or leaving my country is very similar not putting my entire music and video collection on a portable device. Did you know that everyone who purchases non-Apple MP3 players are actually Bush supporters?

Sometimes your thought process boarders on downright disturbing.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Sometimes your thought process boarders on downright disturbing.
The point is is that is not logical to 100% support a product, person, company, country. Its not a simple clear cut either question. The reality is things aren't that simple and most people can come to grips with that. Given the complexity of putting ideals into practice, it doesn't happen over night - nothing is perfect.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
402
NC
By the way, I am not suggesting you support everything Apple does because you bought one of their products.

I am suggesting that you look like somewhat of an idiot for being so vocally against everything they do and all of their practices, then running out and purchasing an iPod.

I don't necessarily support many of Microsoft's practices. However, I am smart enough to realize that I have little choice but to use their software, and thus I don't rant and rave and wave my arms every time someone mentions the company's name. I will discuss what I don't like about them, fine, but you are doing the internet equivalent of throwing a screaming hissy fit.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
I don't necessarily support many of Microsoft's practices. However, I am smart enough to realize that I have little choice but to use their software
Yeah and the MS OS userbase % is smaller than the Apple iPod userbase, especially if you are talking hard drive mp3 players. So thats my point...
 

Kornphlake

Turbo Monkey
Oct 8, 2002
2,639
0
Portland, OR
At one point Syadasti you were ahead, however, your last two pages of argument have made absolutely no sense. You need to slow down, think about what you are saying and pay attention to your strategic use of fallacy. I think you bring up a lot of valid points but they are obscured in immature arguments and bold faced lies.

As much as we think we are annonomously posting, when you've got almost 2500 posts people have a pretty good idea of who you are, we know what city you live in, what industry you work in, what kind of bike you ride and where you ride, we know what kind of camera you own and what kind of music you listen to. Posting half truths and hoping nobody who really knows you will call you out just isn't going to work, maybe on a forum where your post count is 7 or where other members don't participate as actively. Here we're brothers and sisters and we'll fight like brothers and sisters so if you plan on winning an argument you better bring your A game.

Oh yeah, iPods are the devil. I don't care how many cool features they have I'll never own one or install iTunes on my PC. I supported the PC market and got myself into this little mess we have now with Microsoft's monopoly, I'm not going to help Apple build an iOwnEverything by 2025.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Face it dude, you're a flaming hyppocrit. SO what's the reason for the mac mini? Did you just HAVE TO HAVE one of those too?
Actually I have to support them professionally, so unless I want to be running a partially working illegal hacked copy of the OS to test and become familiar with changes on the platform, there is no other choice. I've also had to fix a few executives iPods before too, so it doesn't hurt to know it better. It pays the bills.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
At one point Syadasti you were ahead, however, your last two pages of argument have made absolutely no sense. You need to slow down, think about what you are saying and pay attention to your strategic use of fallacy. I think you bring up a lot of valid points but they are obscured in immature arguments and bold faced lies.

Oh yeah, iPods are the devil. I don't care how many cool features they have I'll never own one or install iTunes on my PC. I supported the PC market and got myself into this little mess we have now with Microsoft's monopoly, I'm not going to help Apple build an iOwnEverything by 2025.
Please tell me, what bold faced lies exactly?

I supported the small companies for all prior mp3 players from CD based mp3 player in the late 90s up until my Rio Karma. They are a monopoly and it doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon.

I could use third party software with hope of proper integration with the ipod, but the freeware ones don't work so well and who want to spend more money trying to find out which best when you only really need to run iTunes for syncing the device. Before this device I used Quicktime and Real Alternative for years...
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
My dad supports multi million dollar electronic printing arrays. They take up entire rooms, but last I checked he doesn't own one of them.

Nice try though!
I'm sure he works on them with no training whatsoever. There is no simulation or test machines for him to use. He just jumps right in when there is a problem and hopes for the best :clue:

People that invest in test platforms or training are just wasting their money I guess.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,412
0
SF
Yeah whats sad is Mac fanboys lecturing how bad PC or Microsoft is and on the otherhand everday they use hardware or software that comes directly from the PC. They say how bad it is when their computers these days are almost exclusively commodity PC parts and technology.

They rant and rave about how bad MS is and yet still have to use MS software or code all the time. They tout how they can now run Windows in various ways on the Mac. Their computer is filled with direct or third party licensed MS/Intel/AMD/whatever technology - hundreds of patents from lowly PCs. Then after they are done they go home and play their Xbox. So you are telling me I'm the hypocrite but they aren't. If they hate Microsoft so much they can drop their MS enchanced toys from their worldwide monopoly, its easy to do :happydance: Things are all so simple and clear cut, right?
Are you talking to me? I don't use Windows much, or Macs either.

And actually, considering who I work for, I jump for joy everytime I hear about another MS vulnerability.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
Yeah whats sad is Mac fanboys lecturing how bad PC or Microsoft is and on the otherhand everday they use hardware or software that comes directly from the PC. They say how bad it is when their computers these days are almost exclusively commodity PC parts and technology.

They rant and rave about how bad MS is and yet still have to use MS software or code all the time. They tout how they can now run Windows in various ways on the Mac. Their computer is filled with direct or third party licensed MS/Intel/AMD/whatever technology - hundreds of patents from lowly PCs. Then after they are done they go home and play their Xbox. So you are telling me I'm the hypocrite but they aren't. If they hate Microsoft so much they can drop their MS enchanced toys from their worldwide monopoly, its easy to do Things are all so simple and clear cut, right?
Sorry, did I miss something? Since when is PC standard hardware a Microsoft product?

Windows is a flaming pile of trash, but it is soleley 1 product from a larger company. It also has NOTHING whatsoever to do with hardware. You really need to get off of your high horse, as you truly do sound like an idiot.

And yes, you are still a hypocrite. To the point of hilarity for the rest of us. You can't even decide what to rage against.

A monopoly means their is exclusive control of a supply or trade by one company. You can buy an archos HDD based MP3 player, thus Apple has no monopoly. You just preferred to buy a better product; thus, you are Hypocrite.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Sorry, did I miss something? Since when is PC standard hardware a Microsoft product?
Its the same standardized PC platform Apple/Jobs was so against a short time ago...

A monopoly means their is exclusive control of a supply or trade by one company. You can buy an archos HDD based MP3 player, thus Apple has no monopoly. You just preferred to buy a better product; thus, you are Hypocrite.
Nah various US states, US DOJ, European Union, and other goverments don't agree with your logic.

In a similiar situation, people can buy other OS and products besides MS...they are still a monopoly :greedy:
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
Winidows also does not have a monopoly. As I can run out an buy a machine that comes with linux factory installed. OPEC has a monopoly on middle east oil, but not on world oil.

The US gov't also thinks they are "helping spread freedom and democracy". I'll stick to the actual definition of the term, not the bastardized version being used in a completely screwed up government to further it's own cause.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,965
4
In a similiar situation, people can buy other OS and products besides MS...they are still a monopoly :greedy:
OR they are the better choice out of what is available. Ever try to get your family (or any other technophobes) to use Linux?

Ugh.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
The US gov't also thinks they are "helping spread freedom and democracy". I'll stick to the actual definition of the term, not the bastardized version being used in a completely screwed up government to further it's own cause.
And what of the European Union. MS Windows and Apple's iPod are monopolies. You need to read up on monopolies, it doesn't mean simply only one firm is providing a particular kind of good or service.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
OR they are the better choice out of what is available. Ever try to get your family (or any other technophobes) to use Linux?

Ugh.
Exactly. I have a family member who can't use any computers without hand holding.

My grandmother - I gave her my old PC, told her a few things over a few visits and she can do most than most novice PC user and she's going blind.

Most novices get upset when they have to learn a new program version, let a alone a new computer platform
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
And what of the European Union. MS Windows and Apple's iPod are monopolies. You need to read up on monopolies, it doesn't mean simply only one firm is providing a particular kind of good or service.
Sorry, I guess my 7 years of political science and political economy weren't enough huh? I must have no idea what a monopoly it, or what it's definition it, or how government's are miscontruing it to benefit themselves and protect local industries!

Yes, you are still a Hypocrite. Yes, It's pretty clear to everyone else. Enjoy your own rants, because I'm pretty sure from now on people will just be laughing at you.

ps: It's funny how in every conversation you have, people can argue circles around you so you spew worthless facts and argue semantics.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
402
NC
And what of the European Union. MS Windows and Apple's iPod are monopolies. You need to read up on monopolies, it doesn't mean simply only one firm is providing a particular kind of good or service.
Your argument is utterly ridiculous.

The government definition of a monopoly and the practical definition are two different things.

You, as an individual with your supposed strong moral standards, have the option to buy another MP3 player. Period. If you felt strongly enough about your ideals, you would take one of the other perfectly functioning options that simply are not quite as good for you as an iPod. The fact that you didn't take one of these options means that you do not feel strongly enough about it, and certainly not strongly enough to be lecturing on the subject in the aggressive and confrontational manner you have been doing it in.

This is completely different from a myriad of other things you could be and have been comparing it to. Linux, for instance, is simply impossible for the average consumer to use, even with great strides forward like Ubuntu. You still have half-assed driver support, hacked hardware support, and any problems with the system still require hand editing of confusing configuration files and whatever "technical support" you can find on message boards and by digging through documentation.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
iPod and Windows fall under various criteria for the tatics use by their respective companies:

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly]wikipedia[/url] said:
* No Close Substitutes
-The product or service is unique in ways which go beyond brand identity, and cannot be easily replaced (specs, feature set, accessories or MS technology NOT working well with others)
* Price Maker
-In a pure monopoly a single firm controls the total supply of the whole industry and is able to exert a significant degree of control over the price, by changing the quantity supplied (Apple's huge resistrictive contracts with flash memory suppliers and mini HDD makers or restrictive windows licensing agreements with big OEMs)
* Blocked Entry
The reason a pure monopolist has no competitors is that certain barriers keep would-be competitors from entering the market. Depending upon the form of the monopoly these barriers can be economic, technological (ie Apple blocking Real's Rhapsody service on iPods...MS doing the same with their technologies), legal (e.g. copyrights, patents - Apple and MS legal tactics), or of some other type of barrier that completely prevents other firms from entering the market.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,965
4
While we're here, what's a good iPod alternative for a 14 year old girl who listens to horrible Japanese pop music?

Christmas time will be here soon enough.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,965
4
I just tried to read this thread. Sweet Lord, even the Political forum never got this bad :D
People in the PaWN forum at least have some sense that everyone in there is an idiot. People posting here think they are all smart and sh1t.

:bonk:
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
I don't need to think of what you think of yourself. I'm not the one spewing cognitive dissonance. Not long ago before you got your iMac :busted:
When did I say I loved Apple?

I still stand by what I said, but it was one statement. I'm not ****ting on every Apple thread that comes around because Apple is a threat to the existance of the human race.

If you have an unfounded bias, just admit it, and STFU.

:ban:
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,218
359
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
Wow I knew this thread would head south, but damn did it ever!

To settle a few things
-I am wholeheartedly opposed to WalMart, so eventhough they do have great prices I don't shop there. Even when it's the most convienent option. I'm against it so I don't use it, that's what taking a stand meens.

-I do own an iPod, as well as several thousand dollars worth of other Apple products, not out of blind loyalty, but because I much prefer the user interface. Sure Apple may polute or infrige on human rights, that does trouble me, but so do most companies.

-There are options other than the iPod for compact portable storage. I use a LaCie HDD, it transfers data way faster than my iPod can, requires no external powersource, holds 160 GB of stuff (mainly porn) and is a non-Apple alternative if that's your bag.

-You will all think I'm an asshole for saying this, but here it is. Apple's discrepencies with polution and human rights don't bother me near as much as the fact that when I called Dell customer support about my Dell laptop (yes I am a multi platform user) I was forced to talk to somebody named Nanajamawhosagiggawhat (or something like that) who didn't speak hardly a word of English. I would much rather pay a little bit more for the product and get quality service from a well paid, and well trained American. Last time I had a question about an Apple product, I called tech support and talked to a guy named Jeff who really knew hist sh1t, and was freindly and well spoken on top of that.

-People who make it their life's work to bash a company, then admit to owning their products are pretty stupid IMO and deserve a good swift kick for their actions.

Oh and H8R, perhaps what your daughter needs is not an mp3 player, but some better CDs
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,965
4
Oh and H8R, perhaps what your daughter needs is not an mp3 player, but some better CDs
I'm pretty sure the bad Japanese music thing is an act of teen rebellion, possibly as a counter-measure to the street cred that my music has. I dunno.

She does wear a Devo shirt, so all is not lost.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,965
4
-There are options other than the iPod for compact portable storage. I use a LaCie HDD, it transfers data way faster than my iPod can, requires no external powersource, holds 160 GB of stuff (mainly porn) and is a non-Apple alternative if that's your bag.

Fvck yeah there is, and they don't even need batteries:


-You will all think I'm an asshole for saying this, but here it is. Apple's discrepencies with polution and human rights don't bother me near as much as the fact that when I called Dell customer support about my Dell laptop (yes I am a multi platform user) I was forced to talk to somebody named Nanajamawhosagiggawhat (or something like that) who didn't speak hardly a word of English.
Note to maxyedor: DO NOT buy Netgear products if this bothers you. Geez-us kee-riced, it took me FOREVER to resolve a bridge mode A/P issue w/ them.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
-I am wholeheartedly opposed to WalMart, so eventhough they do have great prices I don't shop there. Even when it's the most convienent option. I'm against it so I don't use it, that's what taking a stand meens.

-You will all think I'm an asshole for saying this, but here it is. Apple's discrepencies with polution and human rights don't bother me near as much as the fact that when I called Dell customer support about my Dell laptop (yes I am a multi platform user) I was forced to talk to somebody named Nanajamawhosagiggawhat (or something like that) who didn't speak hardly a word of English. I would much rather pay a little bit more for the product and get quality service from a well paid, and well trained American. Last time I had a question about an Apple product, I called tech support and talked to a guy named Jeff who really knew hist sh1t, and was freindly and well spoken on top of that.

-People who make it their life's work to bash a company, then admit to owning their products are pretty stupid IMO and deserve a good swift kick for their actions.
So its ok for you to bash PCs then when you own both platforms for professional reasons, but not me?

Nothing like being a racist and hating a company because your not used to an accent instead of real concerns like environmental or labor violations, don't worry I hear it all the time from right wing tool executives. Guess you are just being a good patriotic xenophobic American - that makes you better than me :cheers:

Let see, Dell - top rated electronics maker for environmental record (according to Greenpeace) that employs people from Indian and helped stop them from wiping Pakistan/themselves off the planet - read The World is Flat by Thomas Friedman - Chapter 12 "The Dell theory of Conflict Prevention" - is bad. But Apple is good cause you can understand "Jeff" while the company doesn't really "think different" but ranks among the worst electronics companies for environmental standards according to Greenpeace and violates CHINESE labor laws (they must have better labor regulations than Walmart since you hate Walmart so much more?)

In case you are wondering here is a summary:

[url=http://www.slate.com/id/2116899]The Dell theory of Conflict Prevention - Slate[/url] said:
For example: The hardware in a Dell Inspiron 600m laptop comes from factories in the Philippines, Costa Rica, Malaysia, China, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany, Japan, Mexico, Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, India, and Israel; the software is designed in America and elsewhere. The corporations that own or operate these factories are based in the United States, China, Taiwan, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Ireland, Thailand, Israel, and Great Britain. And Michael Dell personally knows their CEOs&#8212;a kind of relationship that, multiplied across the global web of supply chains, couldn't hurt when tensions rise between, say, China and the United States.

Friedman argues plausibly that global capitalism dampened the India-Pakistan crisis of 2002, when a nuclear exchange was so thinkable that the United States urged Americans to leave India. Among the corporate feedback the Indian government got in midcrisis was a message from United Technologies saying that it had started looking for more stable countries in which to house mission-critical operations. The government toned down its rhetoric.