[fluff]

sure, they most certainly have a worse reputation then Syria, North Korea, Iran. Grow up man.

New Zealand must not have much contact with the real world. Evry post seems more and more deluded, you really do live in your own little fantasy world.

I know you don't like Changleen and his posts can be inflammatory but he actually has a valid and important point if you care to think about it. He is also better positioned to surmise what the outside world thinks of the US than most people here.

 

[TheMontashu]

As for the US forces..they are in a spot. Indonesia is a very Muslim environment, and as you so aptly point out, Muslims don't love the Western World right now. Going in unarmed is a risk, is it an acceptable one considering the circumstances? Yes.
Should they be forced to not wear body armor? Hell no. Passively protecting their own asses is even more important when they aren't armed.

NO NO NO!!! It is not. alquida(Sp?) is heavily active in Indonesia it would be like sending them into Pakistan unarmed

 

[mack]

Actually I think the US has possibly the worst reputation in the world right now. Recent polls suggest most Europeans and Asians both view America as the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin over any of the 'Axis of Evil' countries.

Besides, how many countries did Indonesia invade on false pretexts recently?

Comments like this vex me to a point of insanity. :mumble:

How come the USA is percieved to be so bad? Because all those people who voted in the polls have no free press and their opinions are manufactured. Just because masses of misinformed people think that doesnt mean dill. And do you really think that Sadam Hussein was a good guy? Maybe you should read a book about people who have been to Iraq and talked to some Iraqi's. The insurgents are criminals and paid fighters, the people of Iraq are not with them. I dont want to bring this argument to Iraq, lets get back to the point.

To adress again the comment about the Japan and USA comparison, the difference between the USA and Indonesia is that we dont have a civil war going on with armed insurgent radicals.

 

[MikeD]

Comments like this vex me to a point of insanity. :mumble:

Are you mad that we're so ill-percieved, or that he's pointing it out?

Fact is, we are...the prevailing sentiment in the US seems to be "screw you, we saved your ass in WWII and we don't care what you think now" combined with a hefty dose of whining (delivered with no sense of irony, even) that we ARE percieved badly.

So do you want to be in the popularity contest or not? Or do you just want to whine to Mom that none of the other kids like you?

MD

 

[MikeD]

Wow, you're pretty good at speculation...

I think in reality the chance of US troops being attacked in this role is very slim. As the article shows the fact that weapons are being carried is an issue to the countries involved. If you really want to change your image, get your balls out and leave the weapons on the troop carrier (or wherever). Take off the body armour and the helmets, roll up the sleves and get stuck in. The signal this sends is FAR more powerful than turning up in combat gear with an M4 or whatever.

Not wanting to tell the yanks how to do anyting, but take a look at how the British army deals with this type of situation and the successes they've had over the years. Even in Iraq, in the south, British troops patrolled without helmets and unarmed wherever possible the reaction to the british troops was undeniably far less agressive than the reation to the US troops. We've been doing this **** for years. Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Africa etc. It works.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you seriously want to be percieved as peaceful do-gooders you're gonna have to take the chance and go unarmed. Maybe, just maybe, a few soldiers may be attacked and killed - if so this would be due to the huge stockpile of resentment you've been successfully building recently (and no offence, but you'd probably deserve it).

As you rightly pointed out, killing unarmed troops in this situation would be seen as 'a bad thing' by the majority population and the deaths would at least serve a useful purpose rather than the pointless (and inflamatory) deaths you seem quite willing to suffer everyday in Iraq.

In conclusion, if you want to make a good impression, suck it up and grow some balls. Muck in and help. Get dirty with the locals. Leave the offensive weapons. They are offensive in more ways than one.

Thanks! Wasn't that better than just calling us all idiots?

 

[Handlebarsfsr]

Because all those people who voted in the polls have no free press and their opinions are manufactured. Just because masses of misinformed people think that doesnt mean dill.

you mean like our country, including yourself?

 

[Silver]

you mean like our country, including yourself?

We've got a free press. It's doing a bang up job covering Brad and Jen lately, don't you think?

 

[mack]

We've got a free press. It's doing a bang up job covering Brad and Jen lately, don't you think?

Silver loves america.

 

[Changleen]

Comments like this vex me to a point of insanity. :mumble:

Keep taking the pills...

How come the USA is percieved to be so bad? Because all those people who voted in the polls have no free press and their opinions are manufactured. Just because masses of misinformed people think that doesnt mean dill.

Yes, that's right. Europe and Asia have no free press. Please. The American press is well known for ignoring, sidelining and downplaying stories that don't suit your insular world view. Actually, outside of the US most people take an active interest in world politics. If anyone is misinformed it's you. I mean what percentage of your population still believes Saddam has WMD and was partly responsible for 9/11?

And do you really think that Sadam Hussein was a good guy? Maybe you should read a book about people who have been to Iraq and talked to some Iraqi's. The insurgents are criminals and paid fighters, the people of Iraq are not with them. I dont want to bring this argument to Iraq, lets get back to the point.

Saddam may not have been a nice guy, but pre 1991 Iraq had a high quality of life comparable to Western Europe and the US, and led the world in certain fields in medicine and engineering. American figures used to highlight his regeime's brutality have been shown to be vastly inflated, and even at these inflated rates, the US invasion has killed more paople than he ever did, let alone what it has done to the county's infrastructure and future prospects. I have read a lot about Iraq's 'insurgents', and again, they are NOT all foreigners, or 'paid mercenaries'. Even one of your own Generals was quoted as saying this was very much overplayed in the media and actually the number of foreign fighters was 'insignificant'. Try reading some of the Blogs of people who live in Baghdad.

To adress again the comment about the Japan and USA comparison, the difference between the USA and Indonesia is that we dont have a civil war going on with armed insurgent radicals.

Hahahaha. Yes you do. It's just not in your own country.

 

[Changleen]

Silver loves america.

Yup, If you disagree with Fox News and the President, you must hate America.

 

[Damn True]

Dear people of Indonesia,
We as Americans are truely sympathetic to your situation in the wake of the Tsunami disaster as well as your sufferings as a result of the ongoing political discord in your nation. We are prepared to assist in any way with the cleanup and rebuilding of your infrastructure and our people and industry has commited millions of dollars in aid and has more waiting. However, your govt. officials are behaving like morons. To ask our troops to move unprotected in your nation where there have allready been killings of aid workers is absurd. We will protect the aid distribution channels. We will protect you while recieving said aid. But first and foremost, we will protect ourselves. If your Govt. will not allow that we will be forced to depart. We will not put our troops into harms way without giving them the means to protect themselves.
Upon our departure we ask that you look to your Govt for further aid. When they reply that there is no aid to give ask them then why they forced us to leave.
Sincerely,
America

 

[Damn True]

Wow, you're pretty good at speculation...

I think in reality the chance of US troops being attacked in this role is very slim. As the article shows the fact that weapons are being carried is an issue to the countries involved. If you really want to change your image, get your balls out and leave the weapons on the troop carrier (or wherever). Take off the body armour and the helmets, roll up the sleves and get stuck in. The signal this sends is FAR more powerful than turning up in combat gear with an M4 or whatever.

Not wanting to tell the yanks how to do anyting, but take a look at how the British army deals with this type of situation and the successes they've had over the years. Even in Iraq, in the south, British troops patrolled without helmets and unarmed wherever possible the reaction to the british troops was undeniably far less agressive than the reation to the US troops. We've been doing this **** for years. Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Africa etc. It works.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you seriously want to be percieved as peaceful do-gooders you're gonna have to take the chance and go unarmed. Maybe, just maybe, a few soldiers may be attacked and killed - if so this would be due to the huge stockpile of resentment you've been successfully building recently (and no offence, but you'd probably deserve it).

As you rightly pointed out, killing unarmed troops in this situation would be seen as 'a bad thing' by the majority population and the deaths would at least serve a useful purpose rather than the pointless (and inflamatory) deaths you seem quite willing to suffer everyday in Iraq.

In conclusion, if you want to make a good impression, suck it up and grow some balls. Muck in and help. Get dirty with the locals. Leave the offensive weapons. They are offensive in more ways than one.

When you are prepared to walk the streets of a country that is home to large numbers of al-queda members and sympathisers unarmed feel free to do so. Any US Commander that does this is a failing in his duty.
The US was the first nation to put large numbers of relief workers on the ground in tsunami struck regions. When this is all done the US will as it has always been be the nation that offers the most relief aid of any on the planet.
When you are asking for help you don't put conditions on it.
If you do, don't be surprised when you are told to go pound sand.

 

[Changleen]

When you are prepared to walk the streets of a country that is home to large numbers of al-queda members and sympathisers unarmed feel free to do so. Any US Commander that does this is a failing in his duty.
The US was the first nation to put large numbers of relief workers on the ground in tsunami struck regions. When this is all done the US will as it has always been be the nation that offers the most relief aid of any on the planet.
When you are asking for help you don't put conditions on it.
If you do, don't be surprised when you are told to go pound sand.

Ah, So we're still at home to the belief that AQ is a huge, highly organised, multi-tenticled underground organisation spanning the globe?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Ah, So we're still at home to the belief that AQ is a huge, highly organised, multi-tenticled underground organisation spanning the globe?

dude, dont you know there was an al-qaeda link when i lost my dog here in Peru!!!!!!

 

[Damn True]

Do you think you could hide out for years in a largely desolate area the size of California unless you had the benefit of an organized support system? They arent the bunch of goat ropers as some of the leftist media have romanticised then as.

AQ is highly active in places all over the world. Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and SA are obdvious, but they are active in other places as well. The Northen islands of the Philipines, Indo, Northern Malaysia as well.

 

[Damn True]

dude, dont you know there was an al-qaeda link when i lost my dog here in Peru!!!!!!

Nobody cares about Peru, not even Al-Queda.

 

[MikeD]

Ah, So we're still at home to the belief that AQ is a huge, highly organised, multi-tenticled underground organisation spanning the globe?

Whether or not anyone who attacks Americans carries some kind of card saying "I'm in Al-Queada!" is irrelevant. It's not neccessary or accurate (not that it doesn't happen, because AQ is a nice scary buzzword to Americans) to substitute the name "Al-Queada" in for "extremists who might attack Americans." They can be affiliated with known organizations or entirely independent...that's the real danger. If the worldwide Muslim insurgency that we're facing had a central structure, it'd make them vulnerable and the battle easier for us.

There's still a threat in Indonesia to unarmed American military personnel...hell, there's a threat to unarmed NGOs and aid workers of all stripes, but it's far less likely, in my estimation, that they'll be attacked.

MD

 

[Silver]

Do you think you could hide out for years in a largely desolate area the size of California unless you had the benefit of an organized support system? They arent the bunch of goat ropers as some of the leftist media have romanticised then as.

AQ is highly active in places all over the world. Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and SA are obdvious, but they are active in other places as well. The Northen islands of the Philipines, Indo, Northern Malaysia as well.

I don't think it's so much an organized support system so much as the culture in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

We aren't the first empire that has had problems finding people in that area, remember?

 

[Changleen]

Whether or not anyone who attacks Americans carries some kind of card saying "I'm in Al-Queada!" is irrelevant. It's not neccessary or accurate (not that it doesn't happen, because AQ is a nice scary buzzword to Americans) to substitute the name "Al-Queada" in for "extremists who might attack Americans." They can be affiliated with known organizations or entirely independent...that's the real danger. If the worldwide Muslim insurgency that we're facing had a central structure, it'd make them vulnerable and the battle easier for us.

But continuing to support the myth of AQ is also highly irresponsible. Not only does it encourage Americans to remain dumb, but also neatly glosses over the multifaceted reasons you have a problem with the natives of so many countries (not all of whom are Muslim I might add). With better understanding of these people's motives you'd automatically be closer to a solution. As it stands right now, every Arab-looking guy who the US have an issue with is aut-designated AQ. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. It's also 'a lie', but Americans seem to prefer the lie to the truth these days.

 

[Damn True]

True enough.

 

[Changleen]

I don't think it's so much an organized support system so much as the culture in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

We aren't the first empire that has had problems finding people in that area, remember?

Especially when you ask people with ulterior motives where your enemies might be hiding. The truth is Bin Laden had no bases in Tora Bora and if he was there at all it was for a very short time.

 

[Damn True]

But continuing to support the myth of AQ is also highly irresponsible. Not only does it encourage Americans to remain dumb, but also neatly glosses over the multifaceted reasons you have a problem with the natives of so many countries (not all of whom are Muslim I might add). With better understanding of these people's motives you'd automatically be closer to a solution. As it stands right now, every Arab-looking guy who the US have an issue with is aut-designated AQ. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. It's also 'a lie', but Americans seem to prefer the lie to the truth these days.

Al-queda is a myth now?
Wow, thank goodness. I'll jot that down on the postcard I send to some of the crewmembers of the USS Cole on my summer vacation to the World Trade Center.

 

[mack]

Speaking of Fox News. I almost ran over Rupert Murdok when he was at Sun Valley when they were at some big buisness convention.

I was driving some stupid rental car and had big boots on, and the gas and brake were right right next to each other. So i hit the gas when i meant to hit the brake and almost ran over Rupert and his two hot female escorts (could be daughters). :evil:

I believe he now bought out all his stock holders to gain more controll of the company. Hell, its better than CBS or CNN. Well, the new CBS anchor is a good guy i think.

 

[Damn True]

The gas and brake were right next to each other?

Wierd.

 

[valve bouncer]

Dear people of Indonesia,
We as Americans are truely sympathetic to your situation in the wake of the Tsunami disaster as well as your sufferings as a result of the ongoing political discord in your nation. We are prepared to assist in any way with the cleanup and rebuilding of your infrastructure and our people and industry has commited millions of dollars in aid and has more waiting. However, your govt. officials are behaving like morons. To ask our troops to move unprotected in your nation where there have allready been killings of aid workers is absurd. We will protect the aid distribution channels. We will protect you while recieving said aid. But first and foremost, we will protect ourselves. If your Govt. will not allow that we will be forced to depart. We will not put our troops into harms way without giving them the means to protect themselves.
Upon our departure we ask that you look to your Govt for further aid. When they reply that there is no aid to give ask them then why they forced us to leave.
Sincerely,
America

Dear America,
Stop your incessant moaning. This isn't about you. Would you let our troops carry weapons in your streets? I think not. If you don't want to help that's fine, there are plenty of countries that do. Just stop your whining, it's getting old.
Regards Indonesia

 

[jon cross]

If we asked Saudi troops for help cleaning up an environmental disaster of biblical scale I highly doubt that we would have the arrogance to impose demands of them, especially demands that put them in danger, while receiving their assistance.

 

[Damn True]

If we asked Saudi troops for help cleaning up an environmental disaster of biblical scale I highly doubt that we would have the arrogance to impose demands of them, especially demands that put them in danger, while receiving their assistance.

Exactly.
When someone gives you something you don't put restrictions on the gift.

 

[mack]

The gas and brake were right next to each other?

Wierd.

i know, stupid ford. I also crashed that SUV cus it has this wicked blind spot, and i backed into a monster tree! Stay away from the ford escape. :mumble: :mumble: :mumble:

 

[Damn True]

i know, stupid ford. I also crashed that SUV cus it has this wicked blind spot, and i backed into a monster tree! Stay away from the ford escape. :mumble: :mumble: :mumble:

They have these new things for cars now.
They are called "mirrors".

 

[ioscope]

Damn Strayt they can't carry guns!

The us is an imperialist nation.
If we don't have gunes, maybe we will focus more attention on saving the people.
YOu are all such neo-conservative imperialist cocksmokers.

 

[mack]

Flame all you want, this thing had a blind spot!

 

[mack]

Damn Strayt they can't carry guns!

The us is an imperialist nation.
If we don't have gunes, maybe we will focus more attention on saving the people.
YOu are all such neo-conservative imperialist cocksmokers.

Some one likes blanket statements and didnt read the thread.

 

[ioscope]

FLAME infinity plus one can't plus!

 

[mack]

Huh?

Drugs are not worth it son. Put down the crack pipe.

 

[TheMontashu]

Damn Strayt they can't carry guns!

The us is an imperialist nation.
If we don't have gunes, maybe we will focus more attention on saving the people.
YOu are all such neo-conservative imperialist cocksmokers.

If you don't like the US go to canada. canadians and there faling morality and rising crime are more than happy to have you there

 

[Silver]

If you don't like the US go to canada. canadians and there faling morality and rising crime are more than happy to have you there

Hmm, falling mortality? Failing morality? Falling morality? Failing mortality?

C'mon son, what the **** are you trying to say?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

If you don't like the US go to canada. canadians and there faling morality and rising crime are more than happy to have you there

bwhahaahhahahahaahahhahahahaahahahahahahhaahah!!!!
you talk about faling morality????????? a californian from the mecca of porn and slut-land (because being serious, the US is well known for being a place where is easy to get laid)
rising crime?? bwhahahaha.... like the US is the most peaceful place.

its like me talking about peru and its good economy and transparent government.......

 

[DRB]

Damn Strayt they can't carry guns!

The us is an imperialist nation.
If we don't have gunes, maybe we will focus more attention on saving the people.
YOu are all such neo-conservative imperialist cocksmokers.

In Indonesia, the United Nations banned its staff from traveling between the hard-hit provincial capital of Banda Aceh to the east Sumatran city of Medan because of reported fighting between the military and separatist rebels in the tsunami-battered area, a U.N. spokesman said.

If you have to fear for your own safety then how do you focus attention on saving lives?

 

[MikeD]

YOu are all such neo-conservative imperialist cocksmokers.

Wow, man, that's a great observation. Did you learn those words at a coffeeshop political roundtable? It's funny that they're some of the few you actually spelled correctly...I think you were cheating and cut/pasted them out of someone's blog.

MD