[dump]

official..... they are "suspending operationg"

Stay Safe. Stay Tuned.

We started Trust Performance in 2015 with a vision of building products that bring spirited outdoor athletes more fun and camaraderie. Our core focus from the outset was on reimagining and re-defining suspension technology; at first in mountain bikes with other industries thereafter. As you...

trustperformance.com

So they operated like a startup, raising rounds of cash to get going... they’re saying they’re out of cash. “Suspending operations until we can raise more cash” ... have heard that a thousand times over in the software business where it is synonymous with done.

1000 forks sold isn’t going to sustain the business. They were at the point of needing to raise more and they cannot. Maybe it comes back when this is all over. My impression is that it’s going to be a pretty slow recovery. Maybe 5 years down the line.

 

[dan-o]

Are they refunding the 'sorry you paid full price for the Message' credits?

 

[djjohnr]

Product management/product marketing fail.

 

[dan-o]

So they operated like a startup, raising rounds of cash to get going... they’re saying they’re out of cash. “Suspending operations until we can raise more cash” ... have heard that a thousand times over in the software business where it is synonymous with done.

1000 forks sold isn’t going to sustain the business. They were at the point of needing to raise more and they cannot. Maybe it comes back when this is all over. My impression is that it’s going to be a pretty slow recovery. Maybe 5 years down the line.

The best way to avoid capital issues is to offer a product people will buy.

 

[Leafy]

Honestly, do yo think they aimed for the blue collar guy? They went full dentistry here, trying to get those with enough money to spare and genuinely not caring for real improvements. Hype buyers. Maybe the media failed to help them place their product in the right income bracket...

I think that's where they screwed up. They tried to go too far. All they needed to to was produce a fork that acted similar to telescoping forks, used off the shelf shocks, and just didn't have stiction and bind like a telescoping fork s that the small bump sensitivity would be way better. Sell it for like 400-600 without shock or that money + retail of the associated shock with basically a free custom tune. That lets you have a fork at basically every normal fork price range with the same level of damper ($500ish with a x-fusion minimum viable shock, $600ish with a monarch solo, $750ish with a fox dps, $900ish with a dpx2, and coil variants as well). Then once they had a full product price range, having DW on board, they could have leveraged a reduction/elimination of licensing fees of the DW link for a particular model to an OEM that maybe already uses it to pump the forks into the market.

 

[canadmos]

Even priced in the right spot, a linkage fork.......still looks like a linkage fork.

None of the reviews Ive read were stellar, its looks weird, its priced at the very top of the suspension world, their messages and posts seemed offputting, and the company existed for 3-4 years before any product existed.

What'd they expect to happen? Be bathed in a rainbow glitter parade and cash?

 

[dump]

Even priced in the right spot, a linkage fork.......still looks like a linkage fork.

None of the reviews Ive read were stellar, its looks weird, its priced at the very top of the suspension world, their messages and posts seemed offputting, and the company existed for 3-4 years before any product existed.

What'd they expect to happen? Be bathed in a rainbow glitter parade and cash?

5 years to design, produce and sell 1000 forks... I appreciate what they were trying to do. Wonder if they are really suspending. Very likely scenario is that the funders require liquidation. The "very promising results" is subjective certainly.

 

[kidwoo]

They were at the point of needing to raise more and they cannot.

Correction: they were at the point of needing to make a fork that works.

 

[kidwoo]

What'd they expect to happen? Be bathed in a rainbow glitter parade and cash?

Have you ever read a forum on mtbr with pretty much any patented suspension design being used?


I think you're spot on. That's exactly what they expected.

I think darren/push is guilty of all the same bullshit and it drives me crazy how they've specifically aimed solely at dentists, completely ignoring people with dh bikes and with normal jobs. There is one thing however that push has been doing differently: their shit works. And works very well. Turns out, product matters. Just a little bit. Especially if you're going to hang yourself out there, just grasping at some investment firm's dick.

 

[jonKranked]

let's see, now in this thread we have:

-armchair engineers
-armchair product managers
-armchair product designers
-armchair project engineers
-armchair marketing
-armchair accounting
-armchair sales

you guys are almost ready to start your own company. you should call it Armchair Suspension™

(please note i've already trademarked the name, but the rights are up for sale)

 

[xy9ine]

I think that's where they screwed up. They tried to go too far. All they needed to to was produce a fork that acted similar to telescoping forks, used off the shelf shocks, and just didn't have stiction and bind like a telescoping fork s that the small bump sensitivity would be way better. Sell it for like 400-600 without shock or that money + retail of the associated shock with basically a free custom tune. That lets you have a fork at basically every normal fork price range with the same level of damper ($500ish with a x-fusion minimum viable shock, $600ish with a monarch solo, $750ish with a fox dps, $900ish with a dpx2, and coil variants as well). Then once they had a full product price range, having DW on board, they could have leveraged a reduction/elimination of licensing fees of the DW link for a particular model to an OEM that maybe already uses it to pump the forks into the market.

i think a production variant of the proto mule (aluminum chassis, without the carbon bling) would have been rad.

 

[kidwoo]

let's see, now in this thread we have:

-armchair engineers
-armchair product managers
-armchair product designers
-armchair project engineers
-armchair marketing
-armchair accounting
-armchair sales

you guys are almost ready to start your own company. you should call it Armchair Suspension™

(please note i've already trademarked the name, but the rights are up for sale)

Don't forget to add this one

-people who have actually ridden one of the forks

 

[chris_f]

Of course it's mounted on a Salsa.

 

[OGRipper]

It sucks to see a bunch of people lose jobs and money over this. I think the concept has a lot of potential despite several hurdles, and I hope this doesn't discourage others from giving it a go.

 

[jonKranked]

Don't forget to add this one

-people who have actually ridden one of the forks on the internet

Noted.

 

[kidwoo]

Noted.

Nope, I mean ridden one.

 

[Inclag]

Pointing out an obvious observation in how a force is distributed about a pivot is not armchair engineering.....

The reality is the fork was always going to suck at doing what suspension is intended to accomplish on a mountain bike because under a common loading scenario it transmitted more force to the rider and no amount of damper adjustment or noodling was ever going to change that. I don't expect that everyone would understand this, and sure people with technical competencies all have their knowledge gaps, but I'd file this under embarrisingly egregious failure of either not understanding or completely missing some pretty damn basic fundamental stuff.

 

[kidwoo]

It sucks to see a bunch of people lose jobs and money over this. I think the concept has a lot of potential despite several hurdles, and I hope this doesn't discourage others from giving it a go.

A revision of the small linkage arms that changes the axle path enough that it doesn't bind is really all they need to do. Call it an update or something.

It just requires swallowing some pride, which given the tone they took from the outset, isn't likely to happen.

 

[djjohnr]

The best way to avoid capital issues is to offer a product people will buy.

They fundamentally failed at identifying product/market fit before scaling.

 

[dan-o]

let's see, now in this thread we have:

-armchair engineers
-armchair product managers
-armchair product designers
-armchair project engineers
-armchair marketing
-armchair accounting
-armchair sales

you guys are almost ready to start your own company. you should call it Armchair Suspension™

(please note i've already trademarked the name, but the rights are up for sale)

Just wait until we tear DW's new armchair, The Quarantine, apart.

 

[kidwoo]

 

[rideit]

Is that like the low spark of high heeled boys?

 

[kidwoo]

Trust Performance on Instagram: "We're back at it with another episode of MythBusting With Trust. In this episode, we're addressing the myth that Trust suspension is HEAVY. Well, guess what? The chassis, steerer tube and link arms are all made of carbon. So, you can bet your chamois covered butt it's both strong and light. Got a question you want answered? Just leave a comment below and we'll get to it in a future episode. | Note: Weights referenced in this video are based on both steerer tubes cut to 180mm. #mythbustingwithtrust #trusteffect #trustperformance"

1,017 likes, 14 comments - trust_performance on November 5, 2019: "We're back at it with another episode of MythBusting With Trust. In this episode, we're addressing the myth that Trust suspension is HEAVY. Well, guess what? The chassis, steerer tube and link arms are all made of carbon. So, you...

www.instagram.com

 

[kidwoo]

Shoulda bought the book

 

[Salami]

Don't forget to add this one

-people who have actually ridden one of the forks

Or
-people who think it is so fucking ugly and expensive they don't give a shit how it actually works

 

[kidwoo]

Personally, I'm pretty good at forgetting what something looks like while I'm riding and not looking at it.

I would never wash my bike because I wouldn't want to remind myself of what I look like in public with it but if it rode better in proportion with the money spent and pure hype, I'd find a way to buy one.
But it doesn't.

 

[Westy]

A revision of the small linkage arms that changes the axle path enough that it doesn't bind is really all they need to do. Call it an update or something.

It just requires swallowing some pride, which given the tone they took from the outset, isn't likely to happen.

I would like to see this. I would think the main fork legs would have to be longer to provide lower pivot positions, this would increase weight. The weight of this thing is so close to a 36 or Lyrik I can't help but to think they compromised performance to have a competitive weight. Of course at the high price a significantly heavier fork might not seem acceptable to those with the $$$, they clearly were not targeting the coil fork crowd.

 

[kidwoo]

As posted earlier by others, if it realized all the inherent benefits of a linkage fork and just got rid of the one thing they fucked up, I think it would be legit. Even if it weighed a tiny bit more than a comparable telescoping fork, the stiffness and negligible friction would be enough. They're 90% already there in my mind.

 

[Westy]

As posted earlier by others, if it realized all the inherent benefits of a linkage fork and just got rid of the one thing they fucked up, I think it would be legit. Even if it weighed a tiny bit more than a comparable telescoping fork, the stiffness and negligible friction would be enough in my mind. They're 90% already there in my mind.

Less brake dive would be a game changer IMO. Anyone ever ridden a fork with a floating brake?

 

[HAB]

As posted earlier by others, if it realized all the inherent benefits of a linkage fork and just got rid of the one thing they fucked up, I think it would be legit. Even if it weighed a tiny bit more than a comparable telescoping fork, the stiffness and negligible friction would be enough. They're 90% already there in my mind.

Yup. If they'd just tried to make it perform like a normal fork, but with the stiffness and reduced binding benefits of a linkage fork, it both would have been a better product, and would have been easier to adopt, both because it would have actually worked, and because it wouldn't have felt like as much of a departure from what people are used to.

 

[Inclag]

As posted earlier by others, if it realized all the inherent benefits of a linkage fork and just got rid of the one thing they fucked up, I think it would be legit. Even if it weighed a tiny bit more than a comparable telescoping fork, the stiffness and negligible friction would be enough. They're 90% already there in my mind.

I mean you got to give it to them. They made a linkage fork that binds....think about that for a minute and let it settle in....

Otherwise I think you're forgetting that stiffness was an issue. They weren't 90% of the way there.

 

[StiHacka]

i think a production variant of the proto mule (aluminum chassis, without the carbon bling) would have been rad.

If "rad" was measurable in pounds, it would have been a heavy hitter.

 

[kidwoo]

I mean you got to give it to them. They made a linkage for that binds....think about that for a minute and let it settle in....

Oh I know. And the binding is actually a designed 'feature'. They just worded it a bit more creatively.

1) Downforces don’t push the suspension into its travel. This creates a quick, nimble, pumpy feel like you’d find on a shorter-travel fork.

Let's see that again

1) Downforces don’t push the suspension into its travel.

 

[dump]

i think a production variant of the proto mule (aluminum chassis, without the carbon bling) would have been rad.

Not sure I ever saw that. Does look pretty cool. Cost of manufacturing on that have to be at least half the production chassis. It can all pretty much be machine made.

 

[Inclag]

Oh I know. And the binding is actually a designed 'feature'. They just worded it a bit more creatively.

1) Downforces don’t push the suspension into its travel. This creates a quick, nimble, pumpy feel like you’d find on a shorter-travel fork.

Let's see that again

1) Downforces don’t push the suspension into its travel.

And with that I present to you the concept of Newton's 3rd Law of physics....

 

[kidwoo]

We said DOWNFORCES!

Which work on a completely different principle than UPFORCES.


Because one is down and the other is UP!


agaghghhghh.......f1......motorcycle........instant center........just buy it!!

 

[spocomptonrider]

P
Hopefully I can pick one up on Jenson for a few hunnerd for my new praying mantis themed Halloween bike.

 

[Sandwich]

THAT WAS QUICK

 

[kidwoo]

View attachment 142985

 

[rideit]

THAT WAS QUICK

Isn’t that what they were selling them for after their own price drop?