Good thing the brake on the front wheel is just called a brake but has nothing in common with a decelerating device usually called brake.If that sh!t rides the same as old Vespas, no thanks! Horrendous brakedive.
Trust me...
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Their main angle in marketing this things seems to be magical cornering and stability™ at the moment. I think it's totally understandable that a small company like them went the extremely high-end route with this, and by charging a ton for a consumer direct product they should have decent margins despite small quantities. It seems that the likes of Yeit, Ibis and Pivot are doing quite well in the States, so they will probably find enough 1 percenters to fork out their asking price to stay afloat. But I absolutely don't see this going mainstream, even for half the price.
Still interested to hear some real world ride reports that are a little more substantial than what the developer has to say about the ride characteristics: ''Trying to explain this in words to you is kind of like trying to explain to someone what a new flavor they’ve never tasted is like..." Ugh.
It's obviously further down the roadmap. Once they have sold a few thousand of these forks within a few years, they will come out with a vastly improved steertube standard that will unhinge their fantastic technology. They will then sell a few thousand more forks to the same customers.
Basic cow milking strategy really...
Problem is: That thing is fugly as hell. I don't see anybody with somewhat an intact sense of aesthetics change this abomination with their shiny Kashima fork on a otherwise perfectly fine bike. Hell, even on a Evil this thing looks completely out of place.
Maybe there are enough rich nerds out there, that appreciate that design for it's "being different" approach. Who knows...
I am interested in this rather bold claim by Weagle:
As far as my armchair engineering goes it will mostly dive the same as a non linkage fork.
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The looks certainly do it no favors, but every time i venture to mtbr I'm just amazed what people are willing to do and spend just because somebody told them there might be a miniscule performance gain to be had.
will there be a 30mm version with extra mounts for extra bottle cages/other gear for the gravel/bikepacking crowd?
And that claim that 130mm of travel feels like more 
if I just didn't knew about how modest dw is...
if I just didn't knew about how modest dw is...
I've been hoping someone would make a linkage fork work for years...not at $2700 though.
So does this fork qualify as lizardry?
they're nothing if not consistent
dw releases a product in 2008:
mtb consumer: "holy shit it's amazing! game changer!"
dw releases a product in 2018:
mtb consumer: "fuck this it's ugly lol never gonna work"
mtb consumer: "holy shit it's amazing! game changer!"
dw releases a product in 2018:
mtb consumer: "fuck this it's ugly lol never gonna work"
I'm not sure the initial consumer reaction was that positive. I think it was proven through application and the positive reaction came as a result. I believe DW unequivocally knows what he is doing and this fork may well be a "game changer".
Also outlay on forks?
I am assuming that sale price is twice of manufacturing
1350 * 2500 = $3,375,000
I am assuming that sale price is twice of manufacturing
1350 * 2500 = $3,375,000
Allow me to present, fanboy #1
DW definitely knows what he's doing when it comes to engineering and product design. I think the some of the negative response here is to the marketing approach, and the price.
Yeah, that doesn't really bother me. If you don't buy into the product then don't buy it, that simple. Folks on this site are 100% more cynical than they were when I joined, wonder why?
I'm with you. I'm interested in it from an engineering perspective, but that's about it. It's not for me – might do some light-hearted ribbing, but I'm not going to bash it. It's DW after all.
Re: cynicism in mountain biking, in short: years of being jerked around, led by similar marketing speak.
Bikes are also pretty damn great these days, giving us more time to bitch about non issues. This forum and its members have also become older, fatter and more jaded. Most importantly we are all just bitter exes because DW left us due to our excessive negativity. What negativity asshole?
The product is absolutely not for me, but I like that he is still trying to innovate for a sport that he's passionate about instead of building killer robots.
The product is absolutely not for me, but I like that he is still trying to innovate for a sport that he's passionate about instead of building killer robots.
the pinkbike article actually has some cool info about the development that i haven't seen elsewhere, but jesus H don't read the comments
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/trust-performances-the-message-carbon-fiber-linkage-fork.html
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/trust-performances-the-message-carbon-fiber-linkage-fork.html
I wonder how much travel they can get out of that design before being limited by down tube interference.
All drawn up. It will, however, void the warranty
I haven't seen any employer time-theft posts about it yet so publish this in the ridemonkey journal of mechanical design:
The universal complaint with linkage forks is vagueness. Whatever is gained in weight, stiffness, reliability, stiction, or braking geo is lost in road feel.
BMW tried to make paralever work for 30+ years, yet you won't see one on an s1000rr. I believe it's because the spring and damper are way off on an A arm leading to hell, and fine vibrations have no chance of making it through all that shock eye-frame member-head tube-steering bearings to your hands. Same with every hub-centric / Tony Foale / Bimota Tesi / garage hack whatever.
A telescoping fork has a direct path from the spring and oil up a big straight tube rigidly clamped to the bars. Even through large scale damping your hands feel fine vibration patterns from a change in road surface because of this directness. IMO this is why telescoping forks, for all their faults, endure on the front of bikes: you can feel it in your hands.
PM for consultations
Having said that, this Weagle fork looks promising because the dampers are close to in-line with a very rigid looking carbon structure. Some feel might be lost through the shock eyes, but maybe not enough to hurt the ride? I'd like to try it out
The universal complaint with linkage forks is vagueness. Whatever is gained in weight, stiffness, reliability, stiction, or braking geo is lost in road feel.
BMW tried to make paralever work for 30+ years, yet you won't see one on an s1000rr. I believe it's because the spring and damper are way off on an A arm leading to hell, and fine vibrations have no chance of making it through all that shock eye-frame member-head tube-steering bearings to your hands. Same with every hub-centric / Tony Foale / Bimota Tesi / garage hack whatever.
A telescoping fork has a direct path from the spring and oil up a big straight tube rigidly clamped to the bars. Even through large scale damping your hands feel fine vibration patterns from a change in road surface because of this directness. IMO this is why telescoping forks, for all their faults, endure on the front of bikes: you can feel it in your hands.
PM for consultations
Having said that, this Weagle fork looks promising because the dampers are close to in-line with a very rigid looking carbon structure. Some feel might be lost through the shock eyes, but maybe not enough to hurt the ride? I'd like to try it out
Someone needs to put one of these on an EVIL Imperial... @manhattanprjkt83 ... the OG one, not the SL.... for proper angle matching.
Well, the marketing hype sure is. i don't get it. No matter who you are, you just can't assemble meaningless strings of words and expect it to resonate.This looks like a match made in heaven.
"With The Message, hit a rock or bump and in the first part of compression, the wheel doesn’t dive or extend."
what does this even mean???
First, I'm trying to imagine my wheel diving during compression. Hmmmm.
THEN, I'm REALLY trying to imagine my wheel extending, and in which particular dimension or dimensions, keeping in mind that current string theory dictates 10 dimensions (plus time) or the universe ceases to exist.
FWIW, string theory is pretty much dead. Stick to the Maldacena Conjecture for now.
I have to say, WHERE aRE aLL THE LINKAGE NERDS???!?!?!?!?!?!?
I need anti dive curves and leverage ratio curves and wheel path curves ASAP!!!! You know I can't do this stuff.
C'mon, tell me what this is going to do.
But if I read the first test and they say it felt overdamped and they call Darrel or DW or Nailed Trust or whoever and the say the took the shock apart and found out that ti didn't have the right super soft valving that only it can use and get away with..........
Probably blowing my chances of getting an early test.....
I need anti dive curves and leverage ratio curves and wheel path curves ASAP!!!! You know I can't do this stuff.
C'mon, tell me what this is going to do.
But if I read the first test and they say it felt overdamped and they call Darrel or DW or Nailed Trust or whoever and the say the took the shock apart and found out that ti didn't have the right super soft valving that only it can use and get away with..........
Probably blowing my chances of getting an early test.....
Apparently the wheels fold partially when hitting a bump, and then spring back to shape once the trail danger is left behind.
pshhhh, the death is greatly exaggerated. Just because they haven't been able to suck the universe into a black hole with the collider proves nothing.
Vibrating strings FTW. Plus, it fits in with my musical narrative
I mean. I have to say. I feel a little foolish right now for not thinking of this.Apparently the wheels fold partially when hitting a bump, and then spring back to shape once the trail danger is left behind.
With a young DW in the picture to show how long ago....
now just reading the name of the fork
Cannondale will license this design and combine it with a new headtube/steer standard. Dirt roadies will open their murses and the cash will flow like a tsunami.
Pinkbike comment highlight - Ryan from Structure:
It's about time the linkage concept got the attention it deserves!
And now for my complaint:
Dave says: "What happens if you build a device that lets the stability of the front-end of a bicycle or motorcycle increase on corner entry rather than decrease? It's a simple question that I don't think anybody has ever asked."
Not only have we asked it, this is nearly a copy of the language we use for our Stability on Demand technology.
Focus on stability, rather than axle path: yep, that's the core of our technology.
Dynamic geometry: yep, that's us, too.
Constant trail: in pitch, ditto; in heave, ours increases trail for ultimate stability.
Sealed bearings at all pivots with a lifetime warranty: ditto.
Proprietary suspension hardware: nope, ours is off-the-shelf.
$2700: Perfect, makes Structure look like a bargain! Smile
Challenge accepted, Dave. Time for a group test!
It's about time the linkage concept got the attention it deserves!
And now for my complaint:
Dave says: "What happens if you build a device that lets the stability of the front-end of a bicycle or motorcycle increase on corner entry rather than decrease? It's a simple question that I don't think anybody has ever asked."
Not only have we asked it, this is nearly a copy of the language we use for our Stability on Demand technology.
Focus on stability, rather than axle path: yep, that's the core of our technology.
Dynamic geometry: yep, that's us, too.
Constant trail: in pitch, ditto; in heave, ours increases trail for ultimate stability.
Sealed bearings at all pivots with a lifetime warranty: ditto.
Proprietary suspension hardware: nope, ours is off-the-shelf.
$2700: Perfect, makes Structure look like a bargain! Smile
Challenge accepted, Dave. Time for a group test!
conveniently forgot to mention the Structure "fork" can't go onto any frame with a standard tapered steerer...
yes, moar hefty