[dsb18292]

Time for something a bit different. Lots of tubeless talk lately. How about some discussion on tubes for AM riding. Any personal experience with heavy duty tubes?? DH guys are going to be the most help here.

Looks like Maxxis, Kenda, Intense, and Quality offer both Heavy Duty (300-400g) as well as full DH tubes (500-700g). Anyone run these in a 2.2-2.4 single ply tire for AM/trail duty?? Obviously the .9-1.2mm thickness makes more sense for trail riding, but is that thick enough to offer puncture protection?

Maxxis Welter Weight .9mm wall (160-200g)

Maxxis FR 1.2mm wall (300g)

Maxxis DH 1.5mm wall (460g)

Kenda HD 1.2mm wall (300g?)
Kenda DH 2.25mm wall (600-700g?)

Qtubes DH 2.25mm wall (690g)
Qtubes Extreme 1.2mm wall (380g)

Michelin and IRC also offer DH tubes in 1.2or 1.4mm wall (respectively) at around 400g, but they are schrader only.

 

[IH8Rice]

ive really only used the IRC DH tubes in my AM/FR bike. they work great, but do weigh a ton.
ive tried using the basic tubes sold at bike stores with okay success

 

[Transcend]

Hell, most riders don't even use DH tubes in DH applications! They are just too heavy unless it's a really brutal course with sharp edges.

Welter weight seems to be the tube of choice for DHers. Good Dh tire sidewalls will do a lot of the work for you.

 

[dsb18292]

Scary part is the Intense, Kenda, and Qtubes are all significantly heavier than that IRC since they go to 2.25mm wall thickness.

Honestly a 650-800g clincher tire with a 300-400g tube is not that far off the mark from a 900-1100g UST setup with 100-200g of Stan's in it. Not that I want a tube/UST debate, just sayin Mostly this comes about as a result of wanting to run stickier tire compounds than what is currently available in UST.

 

[greengreer]

I've got a set of wheels set up tubeless with stans, weight is nice and not having to worry about pinch flats is nice, but they are a pain to set up (for me at least), I would not use them on something that I change tires on frequently. On another set I use cheapo XC tubes and have only had one flat in 6months of this setup. I don't use thin sidewall tires but they are all single ply. I don't run very high pressure either. Unless you are blowing up tons of XC tubes, I don't see any reason to use heavy DH tubes...

 

[dsb18292]

Yes, when running standard tubes I do go through a lot of them. Typically I will get pinch or puncture flats every couple of rides. It is very rocky on our local trails.

 

[Biffff]

I've even run Maxxis Fly-weight (90g's) tubes for DH with pretty good luck, and we have a lot of rock. Welter-weights should be more then enough for any type of riding.

 

[dsb18292]

Biggest issue with the light/standard tubes is that they pinch quite easy when used in conjunction with a trail tire. With a DH tire the casing will protect the tube a bit more. I can remember using regular tubes in IRC kujo tires way back in the day without pinch flats, even at around 22-25psi.

 

[bullcrew]

schwalbe tubes DH and they all come with a threaded schrader valve and nut.

 

[norbar]

Biggest issue with the light/standard tubes is that they pinch quite easy when used in conjunction with a trail tire. With a DH tire the casing will protect the tube a bit more. I can remember using regular tubes in IRC kujo tires way back in the day without pinch flats, even at around 22-25psi.

But what's the point of using a lighter tire when you're going for a heavier tube? It will be the same as a full on dh tire and a light tube (which will ofer more traction). For trail use I'd go ghetto tubeles or lightest tube + stans.

 

[Pslide]

Tube wall thickness should not be the only consideration. Size is actually more critical. A larger thin wall tube will be more resistant to pinch flats than a skinnier thick walled tube of the same weight.

Reason being is that the skinnier thick walled tube will place the rubber under more tension when inflated into the tire, which makes it more prone to pinches and tears. The down side is that a larger tube is harder to fit and your more likely to pinch during mounting (for a DH setup).

I think I recall that you can purchase Maxxis FR and DH tubes with very similar weights (~300 g), the FR being skinny/thick and the DH being large/thinner. Not sure their website shows this though... Maybe someone else can confirm.

 

[dsb18292]

But what's the point of using a lighter tire when you're going for a heavier tube? It will be the same as a full on dh tire and a light tube (which will ofer more traction).

That really is an appropriate response from a DHer perspective. From the trail side it has more to do with tire availability. We have a lot more 2.2-2.4 tires than in the past, but a lot of them are not strong enough to deal with heavier riders or rougher terrain. Also for trail riding there is not really a huge call for 2.5in dual ply dh tires. That is a lot of rolling resistance and extra weight. There are still some dual ply 2.2ish tires around, but they are not common and are headed out as far as I can tell.

 

[norbar]

That really is an appropriate response from a DHer perspective. From the trail side it has more to do with tire availability. We have a lot more 2.2-2.4 tires than in the past, but a lot of them are not strong enough to deal with heavier riders or rougher terrain. Also for trail riding there is not really a huge call for 2.5in dual ply dh tires. That is a lot of rolling resistance and extra weight. There are still some dual ply 2.2ish tires around, but they are not common and are headed out as far as I can tell.

Well a heavier tire does not really add weight if you consider a 1ply tire in your case has to use an incredibly heavy tube. Also in my experiance they don't decrease the number of pinch flats noticably. Also there is a lot of 1.5ply tires like fr schwables, sx casting spec's in 2.35'' size.

btw. why ommit the part where i suggested going tubeless? Seems like the best idea if you pinch alot. Eliminates 100% of them.

 

[dsb18292]

Also in my experiance they don't decrease the number of pinch flats noticably.

Ok, now that's what I am curious about. Are you fully talc'd, or installed dry?

btw. why ommit the part where i suggested going tubeless? Seems like the best idea if you pinch alot. Eliminates 100% of them.

Just trying to stay on point I am well aware of the benefits of tubeless, but that is another discussion.

 

[norbar]

Ok, now that's what I am curious about. Are you fully talc'd, or installed dry?


Just trying to stay on point I am well aware of the benefits of tubeless, but that is another discussion.

Just used them out of the box. Had serious flat problem and none of the dh tubes seemed to solve it(1.7mm intense, maxxis dh, 2,25kenda) it ended with my smoother riding.

 

[dsb18292]

Cool, so no talc (other than what may have been on the tube from the factory). That could have made a difference. I am also curious about slippery tubes by RocknRoll Lubrication, but that does look like a mess when it comes time for a patch trailside.

Riding smooth is a novel idea and works well until you are going over 25mph and can no longer see all the rocks/roots (it's always the ones I don't see that get me). Then it boils down to equipment, setup, and luck.

So the Norbar vote goes to none, they are all the same. Get burlier tires and better skills