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Tubeless ponderings...

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
0
UK
I've run Michelins tubeless (comp 16/24/32) since forever - 6+ years. Was running them well before the D3.1 rim came out using Stan's notubes rimstrips etc. In all of that time I think I have only ever ONCE burped a tyre significantly enough to have noticed, and that was in a high-speed crash in the alps. I've had a few holes in tyres sure, but most of the time some notubes sealant that I try to always run has fixed it no problems.

You could say I'm very happy with the setup.

EXCEPT they can be such a pain to inflate sometimes.

So, I thought I'd try Maxxis. I hear they inflate so much more easily. Well I just ordered myself some High Rollers, and straight away have heard from a relatively gentle rider that he had problems with his burping/rolling off the rim at anything under 35psi. So I'm very tempted to cancel that order and stick with my Michelins.

I read that a lot of WC pros don't bother with tubeless, and the more I read about Maxxis the more I think the reasoning behind that is that most of them are sponsored by Maxxis, and Maxxis don't work as a reliable DH tubeless solution.


So, what do you reckon. Should I stick with my Michelins, even though they have a limited range and haven't released a new tyre in 5+ years, or should I give Maxxis a go and hope I have better luck? Who hear successfully runs Maxxis tubeless? Any tips/advice?

- seb
 

CBJ

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2002
10,925
1,262
Copenhagen, Denmark
I ran Minions DHR tubeless all last year on 823 rims and with less then 35 psi. No burping or rolling.

I weight around 160lbs. but I think the more aggressive you ride and the heavier you are the higher the chance are of possible burps?
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,257
7
Reno 911
I ran Minion DHF's on 729's w/ Stans all last season. I usually run 30psi, no lower. I weigh 170, no burping w that setup.
 

ChrisKring

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,395
4
Grand Haven, MI
A lot of the top pro riders don't use tubeless since they change tires so often that it isn't practical. I have seen some pro riders changing tires every run even though there was no visible wear.

I haven't had issues with air burping with Maxxis UST tires above 20psi. I have had som non-ust tires burp air at pressures around 20psi. Personally, I like to run Maxxis about 25-28 psi anyway so it doesn't matter.
 

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
0
UK
Also if people could mention whether they're using the "LUST" versions or "regular UST" ones, cheers :-)
 

CBJ

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2002
10,925
1,262
Copenhagen, Denmark
But if they run tubeless tire on tubeless rim changing tire should be easy?

Agree on 25-28 psi.

What's the difference lust vs. ust?
 

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
0
UK
Well, I suppose some might argue that tubeless "dry" (without sealant) is a bad idea, and if you use the sealant it gets pretty messy changing tyres. Still, if there is a performance gain you'd think they could cope with a bit of mess.
 

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
0
UK
Hmm, well I've read around a bit and found a lot of bad comments about LUST so have cancelled those and ordered the normal UST ones. LUST seems to get a lot more coverage on UK forums than on here, maybe Maxxis have targeted them at europe and not many places in the US sell them.
 

Threepointtwo

Monkey
Jun 21, 2002
633
0
SLC, UT
I have run Maxxis/Stans/Maxxis rims strips (no longer available) for the past 5 years or so with no problems at 22-28 psi. These are non-UST tires. This will be my first season with actual tubeless rims.
 

Arkayne

I come bearing GIFs
May 10, 2005
3,745
12
SoCal
I'm fortunate to have a compressor for inflating duties. The Maxxis DHF/DHR UST's with Stan's inside have been a cakewalk compared to the Michelin's. The Maxxis bead is softer and easily pops on.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,837
0
South Seattle
I ran 2 wheelsets for a whole season with zero issues as long as I was running proper pressure. ie 30+ psi
I was using the ghetto tubeless with BMX tubes. Inflates easily especially if you premount new tires with tubes and let them sit overnight.
 

FCLinder

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2002
4,403
0
Greenville, South Carolina
I don't understand why people have so many problems with putting Michelins on their rims. My Michelin setup is tubeless with no problems. I run Azonic OutLaws. They have the Alex rim on them and are None Tubeless. I was very lucky to get a lot of the old Maxxis DH2 Tubeless rim strips after they stopped making them. Run them with the Michelins and 1 cup of Stans goo. They are good to go like Taco Bell. I can do one tire setup in less than 3mins per wheel. I use the Pedro’s Tire levers. I will say that you do have to have a Air Compressor or Air Tank (You can get one for $30) to pump them up. Run them around 25 to 28psi.
 

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
0
UK
I don't understand why people have so many problems with putting Michelins on their rims. My Michelin setup is tubeless with no problems. I run Azonic OutLaws. They have the Alex rim on them and are None Tubeless. I was very lucky to get a lot of the old Maxxis DH2 Tubeless rim strips after they stopped making them. Run them with the Michelins and 1 cup of Stans goo. They are good to go like Taco Bell. I can do one tire setup in less than 3mins per wheel. I use the Pedro’s Tire levers. I will say that you do have to have a Air Compressor or Air Tank (You can get one for $30) to pump them up. Run them around 25 to 28psi.
Well FWIW I struggle less than you - I can get a tyre on in under a minute using just my hands (no levers), and since I have tubeless rims I don't need to mess around with rimstrips. The only issue I have is then inflating them, I don't have the air compressor that you admit you need ;)
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
i used to use minnion tubeless but now that i got a michelin comp 16 i dont think that will continue. i love it. and the maxxis burped once on me
 

big-ted

Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.
Sep 27, 2005
1,403
45
Vancouver, BC
I had no problems with Michelin's inflating using a floor pump. I even managed to do it with a mini pump once. My problem was that I simply couldn't keep air in them. I tore the sidewalls, took chunks out of the casing, and tore the tire where the bead joins to the sidewall, none of which Stans would seal. I just got fed up. I had the same, if not worse experiences with Hutchinsons, and all this running around 30 psi.

Ironically, I'm now running a non-UST Minion which, aside from needing the air topping up every two weeks or so, has been faultless.

Seb, I never did bother trying the various UST Maxxis as this seems to be working ok for me for now. I will however agree that the beadlock with Maxxis is nowhere near as solid as the Michelins. I rolled a Minion off a 721 rim, but haven't had any problems on my 823.

I did feel a UST "DH casing" high roller the other day. It felt scary thin, and had a kevlar bead. I'm not sure I'd trust it, especially at the $75CAD the shop wanted for it....
 

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
0
UK
Surprised you're running tubeless tbh mate, I'm sure you were always pretty against it?

And it's "TYRE", you've been there less than 2 years, get a grip of yourself man! ;)
 

godzilla

Chimp
Dec 19, 2005
78
0
I've run Minions tubeless for 2 years with no issues. I weigh about 205 w/ gear, ride pretty aggressively, and run around 28/35 f/r.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,417
0
Oz
I ran high rollers in the rear, minions in the front all last year on my Dee Max set up. Never burped a tire, never rolled a bead.

I did roll it once on my Nomad a couple years back, but it turns out I had them down to about 14psi, which just wasn't enough.

I pushed them back up to about 34psi for DH, and they worked great. Never had any issue with them for an entire season. And I am no small princess, I weigh about 215, and don't ride with anything that looks like grace or finesse.
 

vtminuteman

Monkey
Nov 29, 2004
166
0
Sharon VT
big-ted, do you use Stans when running a non-ust Minion on an 823 rim? If yes, how much? I also kept cutting Michelin UST tires using 823 rims, so I might try this set-up.
 

big-ted

Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.
Sep 27, 2005
1,403
45
Vancouver, BC
big-ted, do you use Stans when running a non-ust Minion on an 823 rim? If yes, how much? I also kept cutting Michelin UST tires using 823 rims, so I might try this set-up.
Yes. A fair bit. I'd say maybe three scoopfuls? Slightly less than the recommended amount as I remember thinking it seemed ridiculous.

I should point out that it is definitely harder to get the non-UST Maxxis to inflate than the Michelin, but that typically isn't a problem here, as I have a gas station with a nice big compressor 'round the corner. Seb will testify that the gas stations in the UK all have the lamest compressors. Once the bead is sat it stays there, and the pressure can just be topped with a mini-pump as required.

Also, I find the sidewalls of the non-UST Maxxis tyres show considerable amounts of wear in the form of the fabric weave becoming visible after a while. I can still just about get the full life out of the tread before it becomes an issue though.
 

joelsman

Turbo Monkey
Feb 1, 2002
1,369
0
B'ham
I have 823's with maxxis 2.5 ust minions tyres, only burped in the lower 20's for psi and that was in the rear landing sideways off a small jump. not lust.
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,279
0
seattle
I am currently running non-ust maxxis on 721s with stans strips with no problems. The little bike has single ply non-ust maxxis on DT 5.1s with stans strips...again no prob.

The only diff I have seen between the maxxis (non-ust, single or 2 ply) and the mich ust DH tires on the same rims is a little faster loss of air. I need to check the maxxis every week or so. The mich would hold 80 of their air over the winter.

I have never had a burping or loss of pressure issue with any of the above set-ups nor with mich tires (non-ust single and ust double ply) ever. This has included 729, 721, and DT 5.1s...all with stans strips.
I am ~ 190 lbs, and find for the most part, that much below 30lbs of air to have no benefit, yet comprimise cornering (tire roll).
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,232
825
My own world inside my head
I have run Non UST Maxxis tired with a Stans kit and never had any trouble burping. Ran them on Sun SIngletracks, Ran High rollers/ mobsters, minions, and swamp things. One cup of sealant, both single and dual ply tires, i ran them as low as 18 lbs, never had a big burping problem, maybe once during a hard wreck, thats all. Ran some Tiogas, Wtb's, and some panaracers, those ones I did have some issues with air loss.
 

OilCanRacer

Chimp
Feb 13, 2008
18
0
i've run a 2.5 minion, blue groove and timberwolf all tubeless with stans strip and only burped them all once.

i run my tires on the same bermed dh track over and over lowering the pressure untill they burp. then i add 5 psi and try to not go lower than that.

minion 31 psi
blue groove 29 psi
timberwolf 27 psi

i weigh 160lbs and ride hard. the kenda never kept air for too long and was a pita to inflate.

gonna try a racing ralph next cause i got one and then a michelin at for the up coming spring time mudfest. small but it worked on a friends bike.
 

vtminuteman

Monkey
Nov 29, 2004
166
0
Sharon VT
Do Maxxis ust tires puncture less than Michelin ust? I run Michelin ust tires on mavic 823 rims and have pinch flatted the tire many times. All models too comp 16, 24, 32. I weight 140lbs and run 30psi. The snake bites are to big to fill with Stan's and patching is a pain(plus unreliable). I'm fed up with puncturing a tire with lots of tread left and not being able to run it tubless. 823 rims are great I just can't find a good tubeless tire to put on it.
 

DIRTWRKS

Monkey
Aug 13, 2003
616
0
Canada EH !
Do Maxxis ust tires puncture less than Michelin ust? I run Michelin ust tires on mavic 823 rims and have pinch flatted the tire many times. All models too comp 16, 24, 32. I weight 140lbs and run 30psi. The snake bites are to big to fill with Stan's and patching is a pain(plus unreliable). I'm fed up with puncturing a tire with lots of tread left and not being able to run it tubless. 823 rims are great I just can't find a good tubeless tire to put on it.


I had the same problem running the Comp 16 and 24 tubeless on 823 rims on the rear, on the front the Comp 16 was ok though.
Since I was sponsored by Michelin the only way to fix the problem was to run a softer rim "721" with tubes for the rear.
 

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
0
UK
Hmmm, I very rarely put holes in my michelins, and I tend to run them at 24psi tops.