[Samirol]

"Won" what exactly?

it was a dull boring snoozefest full of half truths, spin and nothing of any substance. both obama and mccain lack clarity of vison and neither has any leadership skills what so ever.

so, yeaa... obama won 1st place in the Retard Olympics.. go team!

Polls among undecided voters thought that he performed better in the debate. I agree, it wasn't really a debate, since the moderator is there just to ask questions, not to make sure that they stay on topic and within time constraints.

This "retard olympics" is for the PotUS, I would call it a soap opera more than anything.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

i guess is should have said 'free' gov sponsored healthcare is not a right.

howz about free food? or free government provided sex for teh masses?

Last night Obama was talking about everyone having health insurance.

There's a difference.

 

[sanjuro]

wherez the incentive to work if everyone gets free health care, free food, free homes?

perhaps these are the people who would staff your non-profit hospital system?

It is better then incentive-based refusal system we have now.

You know, it is not like the only model for a public health system is North Korea. Canada has a successful public health system.

I doubt private hospitals will go under. One problem with public health systems is specialized treatments will take longer, so people still want private health care.

N 8, when I see Ronald Reagan ranting about "socialized" medicine in a 60's era commercial, the first thing I think about is a 50's era advert promoting how Lucky Strikes is the Doctor's choice.

At some point in post WWII, lobbyists were able to kill any attempt at a public health care system, and now we have what we have.

I think it is easy for you, which I assume you and your family have excellent health care and I hope excellent health, to say, it is not a right. I think it is.

Maybe you don't believe in public schools, EPA, or the SEC either.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Last night Obama was talking about everyone having health insurance.

There's a difference.

there a a lot of people who could buy heath insurance right now today, but choose not to.

so what?

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

Did anyone else notice McCain's nervous old man laugh that sounded eerily similar the Bush laugh ?

He sounded like an excited old man in a whore house with stack of free coupons.

 

[sanjuro]

there a a lot of people who could buy heath insurance right now today, but choose not to.

so what?

That's right. Eating and having a roof vs paying for health insurance is a choice.

Let's not be stupid here. Health insurance for most families average between $300-700 a month. You know there are a lot of families that would struggle with the added cost.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

That's right. Eating and having a roof vs paying for health insurance is a choice.

Let's not be stupid here. Health insurance for most families average between $300-700 a month. You know there are a lot of families that would struggle with the added cost.

Why waste your time trying to rationalize with him ?

N 8 is too busy overseeing the illegal workers as they polish the tiles on his ivory tower.

 

[N8 v2.0]

That's right. Eating and having a roof vs paying for health insurance is a choice.

Let's not be stupid here. Health insurance for most families average between $300-700 a month. You know there are a lot of families that would struggle with the added cost.

so, who exactly is going to pay for all this free healthcare and who is going to administer/oversee it?

 

[Transcend]

so, who exactly is going to pay for all this free healthcare and who is going to administer/oversee it?

Please read again, you seem to lack comprehension skills. Insurance != Healthcare.

 

[sanjuro]

so, who exactly is going to pay for all this free healthcare and who is going to administer/oversee it?

1. Bring back the troops from Iraq.
2. Cut tax subsidies to health insurance companies.

 

[N8 v2.0]

1. Bring back the troops from Iraq.
2. Cut tax subsidies to health insurance companies.

i'm gonna go ahead now and predict that, if elected, we will have the same healthcare system we have today at the end of an obama presidency.





campaign promises are as empty as the crotch of kidwoo's pants.

 

[sanjuro]

i'm gonna go ahead now and predict that, if elected, we will have the same healthcare system we have today at the end of an obama presidency.

campaign promises are as empty as the crotch of kidwoo's pants.

I'm not stupid. You might be right. Do we try for better or just let it keep getting worse.

 

[jimmydean]

I'm not stupid. You might be right. Do we try for better or just let it keep getting worse.

One of the main reasons I think Obama has a chance at improving is his view is different. With McCain in the white house, we already KNOW what we will get and that is a lot more of the same.

Will Obama's ideas work? Who knows. Will they at least be different? I think so.

If you do the same thing, you will get the same result.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I'm not stupid. You might be right. Do we try for better or just let it keep getting worse.

pipe dream... i hope you arent a single issue voter..

Dubious Health Care Savings
Obama said that his health care plan would cut premium costs substantially:

Obama: We're going to work with your employer to lower the cost of your premiums by up to $2,500 a year.​

We contacted health experts about this claim before – when Obama was saying the $2,500 would be the savings per family "on average." Some were quite skeptical. M.I.T.’s Jonathan Gruber told us, “I know zero credible evidence to support that conclusion.” Obama has also said on the campaign trail that more than half of the savings would come from the use of electronic health records, a major part of his plan to cut health costs. When we looked into that claim, experts told us it was wishful thinking.

Adoption of electronic medical records has been slow among doctors and hospitals. Obama could do much to speed it up, but it's not clear that he could bring about widespread adoption or reap such large savings from it. One of his advisers previously told us that the $2,500 figure included savings that would go to government and employers and that could, theoretically, result in lower taxes or higher wages for Americans. It remains to be seen whether savings could trickle down like that, even if Obama could gain the optimistic overall health care savings he touts.

 

[jimmydean]

pipe dream... i hope you arent a single issue voter..

I don't see that as much of a pipe dream considering my families health care went up from $0 a year for coverage to $5760 a year since 2000.

Not including over $3000 I have paid out of pocket this year alone with no major surgeries. $2500 less a year doesn't seem like a stretch to me. If all he does is lift the pre-ex clause, I will dance the jig.

 

[kidwoo]

campaign promises are as empty as the crotch of kidwoo's pants.

Whoohoo, health care for everybody!!

 

[CRoss]

1. Bring back the troops from Iraq.

We are spending 10 billion a month in Iraq? How much of that is the same expenses we would have having the troops back home, food, salaries and so forth. Or is this 10 billion just purely over and above the normal costs of the troops?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Whoohoo, health care for everybody!!

more like..

 

[jimmydean]

We are spending 10 billion a month in Iraq? How much of that is the same expenses we would have having the troops back home, food, salaries and so forth. Or is this 10 billion just purely over and above the normal costs of the troops?

It takes half a million dollars per year to maintain each sergeant in combat in Iraq (not including the sergeants pay and benefits).The 190,000 contractors in Iraq have cost U.S. taxpayers $100 billion from the start of the war through the end of 2008.

So we are spending about $10B a year just in contracted support staff (thanks Uncle Hal).

 

[kidwoo]

more like..

I already know what the space between your ears looks like. We're talking substance here.

Like how my massive junk relates to health care.

 

[sanjuro]

pipe dream... i hope you arent a single issue voter..

Obama said that his health care plan would cut premium costs substantially:

Obama: We're going to work with your employer to lower the cost of your premiums by up to $2,500 a year.

We contacted health experts about this claim before – when Obama was saying the $2,500 would be the savings per family "on average." Some were quite skeptical. M.I.T.’s Jonathan Gruber told us, “I know zero credible evidence to support that conclusion.” Obama has also said on the campaign trail that more than half of the savings would come from the use of electronic health records, a major part of his plan to cut health costs. When we looked into that claim, experts told us it was wishful thinking.

Adoption of electronic medical records has been slow among doctors and hospitals. Obama could do much to speed it up, but it's not clear that he could bring about widespread adoption or reap such large savings from it. One of his advisers previously told us that the $2,500 figure included savings that would go to government and employers and that could, theoretically, result in lower taxes or higher wages for Americans. It remains to be seen whether savings could trickle down like that, even if Obama could gain the optimistic overall health care savings he touts.

Actually, I agree with you there N 8. When I heard he was going to cut costs by improved record keeping, I was like, "Yeah, the government is famous for reducing paperwork and bureaucracy."

Ultimately, if we do move to a public health system, then the middle-class families will obviously transition to free health care.

I think the hardest change with going to a public health care system is changing the thought process that privatized care is better.

As someone who worked for the one of the largest health insurers in the world (yes N 8, I don't just speak out my ass), very few of my co-workers chose our company if they had an option for something else.

I don't think it will be simple or easy to create a new health organization, build new hospitals, and recruit medical personnel, but I think if continue with our current system, then more and more people will have no health insurance.

Let me ask you this then N 8: do you think our current system will help people to get health insurance, or help the insurers?

 

[ohio]

more like..

Damn, I've heard woo talk a big talk, but I didn't realize his pube clippings could stop traffic. Impressive!

 

[Defenestrated]

Our current system is privatized, therefore by nature it favors the insurers.

Name we one privatized industry where a good or service is being provided at the expense of the company for the benefit of the consumer.

 

[kidwoo]

Damn, I've heard woo talk a big talk, but I didn't realize his pube clippings could stop traffic. Impressive!

I play 'find the baseball bat' with new recruits.

 

[kidwoo]

Name we one privatized industry where a good or service is being provided at the expense of the company for the benefit of the consumer.

Amtrack?

 

[Toshi]

Actually, I agree with you there N 8. When I heard he was going to cut costs by improved record keeping, I was like, "Yeah, the government is famous for reducing paperwork and bureaucracy."

uh, obama says the savings will come as providers shift to EMRs. not the govt doing so. whether EMRs save a ton of money is up to debate even within medicine, but it can definitely reduce errors.

/me works with EMRs every day, booyah. (but still has to write orders out on paper when not at the VA or Children's hospitals.)

 

[X3pilot]

best post debate analysis I heard today was a reporter saying

McCain stalked the stage looking like Yosemite Sam when the dynamite didn't go off..

Stable, experienced huh?