[dan wask]

I'm talking about engineering. As many major races as the italian makers have, I still feel german cars are superior. But maybe I'm biased, I'm a bimmer (e30) driver (well, with my learners). Maybe if someone wants to let me take thier lambo or ferrari for a spin round a parking lot I'll change my mind.

My god, I've started a debate

Theres only two italian cars I've ever really enjoyed looking at, the dino

and the 365 gtb.

But in the end, I'd rather be riding a motorcycle anyways...

 

[atrokz]

I'm not a car history nut, so all I know is my first hand experience and the bit of stuff I read here and there.

BMW and Audi can't hold a candle to the Japanese manufacturers when it comes to long term quality/reliability. I will say that german cars have a clear leg up in driving experience, for lack of a better expression. IMO, it's not fair to compare a Porche to a Lexus, as the typical Porsche owner doesn't keep the car for 6+ years as their daily driver (btw - I'm a big Porsche fan).

I just think that when it comes to fit and finish, and long term reliability, you can't beat the Japanese.

Porsche's I see around here (in a salty, bad road climate) are driven as daily drivers throughout the year. that includes winters and such. They are always ranked at top level for reliability year after year. I also dont understand how Japanese cars rank top levels. From personal expericence, my dads Toyotas are notoriously bad (one actualy caught fire), and my GF's honda (05) was just in the shop for a steering problem (heavy at low speeds) whereas her 92 passat had ONE problem (air con) in its entire life (got sold and is still running save for new tires, and a new fuel pump)! As far as initial fit and finish (which is not reliability), dont get me started on that, as Germans are certainly making a 'better built car' as you just have to sit in a few to notice. I'll give long term electronic and engine durability up to the Japanese for certain though, as aside from blowing one motor (cracked heads lead to other problems) in my dads older privia, I've yet to see many problems.

none the less I can see this argument going nowhere. The automotive press says one thing but my experience dictates another. Its hard to debate amongst myself let alone with others :S

 

[jacksonpt]

none the less I can see this argument going nowhere. The automotive press says one thing but my experience dictates another. Its hard to debate amongst myself let alone with others :S

I'm not out to "win" an arguement - I was just stating my opinion, as have you. And that's fine. Your experience shows you one thing, my experience shows me another.

I've had tremendous luck with Japanese vehicles (mainly Toyotas), and have been repeatedly disappointed with BMW and Mercedes (and Audi, but to a far lesser extent). My father owns 2 Porshes, and that is the extent of my experience wtih them. But in this part of the country, they just don't get that many miles put on them.

 

[DHS]

That car is beautiful, you guys are weird. The wheels however, are horrible.

agreeed