Turner DHR, piece of crap.

davep · Oct 21, 2007

Sounds to me like you replaced your bearings incorrectly. They NEED to be held in place with a bearing retaining compound like loctite 609. If you had contacted turner at some point as well, Greg would have sent you some shims that you could have used behind the bearings so that they seat against a solid surface. These are not needed, but some people findt them easier...

ANY pressed in bearing assembly on ANY bike (or other assembly) should be held in place with bearing retaining compound...even more important when the bearing bore is a soft metal (aluminum)!!

Dr. Ill · Oct 21, 2007

Hey man, I'll take it off your hands and you can get a better bike...

Spunger · Oct 21, 2007

davep said:
Sounds to me like you replaced your bearings incorrectly. They NEED to be held in place with a bearing retaining compound like loctite 609. If you had contacted turner at some point as well, Greg would have sent you some shims that you could have used behind the bearings so that they seat against a solid surface. These are not needed, but some people findt them easier...

ANY pressed in bearing assembly on ANY bike (or other assembly) should be held in place with bearing retaining compound...even more important when the bearing bore is a soft metal (aluminum)!!

I remember the whole talk about that. People were making their own shims and such because they were having issues with the bearings seating far enough. Some bikes they bearings fit against the back (my M1 they are all the way in, flush) but some bikes there's that small area behind the bearing. I would have used loctite 609 if I had any gaps to fill but the bearings wouldn't seat any further, and when measured fit exactly so I let them be. They pressed in so hard as the tolerances were tight. I've pressed my fair share of things together but these were REALLY tight.

I hear you on the frustrations of bearings and linkages. I use to have a frame I went though bearings all the time. It use to piss me off royally to have to take everything apart, remove the bearings, and install new ones. Almost after each ride.

Turner will take care of you though, if they don't respond via email, MTBR has a Turner forum in which David himself posts in, but a phone call would never hurt either

wicked cool · Oct 21, 2007

i didint even bother read your post cuz the title was such bull****. the dhr is so sick and turner is a great company. call up Greg I'm sure he will do everything he can to help you that guy is the man.

William42 · Oct 21, 2007

seems like you could have held off on your bashing turner in a public forum till after you heard back? from the sounds of it, this is the third set you have replaced? if you're installing them incorrectly, its not exactly turners fault, and you didn't even give him a chance to get back to you. Try calling and he'll probably sort you out pretty quick, turner is pretty well known for CS. Don't get me wrong, complaining about bearings wearing out quickly is a pretty valid complaint, but maybe if you've messed up once, give turner a chance to rectify the situation before publicly bashing him.

my .02

buildyourown · Oct 21, 2007

The is supposed to be some room behind the bearings when you install them. This "room" should be filled up with green loctite. Only green "bearing retainer" will work. Red or blue will fail quickly. You need to let the bike sit for 12 hours after bearing install. Otherwise, the loctite won't be cured and things will loosen quickly.

The gap is there to accommodate dimensional differences between the front triangle and the rear. Nothing is perfect in manufacturing, especially when welding, and there needs to be some way to make the parts fit perfectly. By having a bit of slop and some loctite, the bearings are able to be aligned perfectly.

I have seen combinations of front and rear triangles that have too much slop to be filled with loctite. This is why Turner started shipping the shim kits. The loctite can only fill about .015 gap, anything more and you need a shim. Even with shims, loctite is still a good idea.

Once installed correctly, the main bearings should last for quite a while. I got 2 seasons out of mine and they where still slop free.

Edit: It sounds like you are not in the US? I know Turner support in other countries can be sketchy due to their dealers. Rest assured that Turner USA will take care of you. Pay for the phone call to Turner direct and you will get what you need.

William42 · Oct 21, 2007

fair enough, and id be pretty peeved were i in your shoes, just starting a thread with such a title is a bit much before you've gotten ahold of turner to try and figure out a solution

DirtyMike · Oct 21, 2007

Im not a fan of the Turner DHR myself for more than one reason, the bearing issues is a minor issue in my book, but also seting up the bike with a slack HT allows the tire to hit the seat tube wearing through it, man thats just a bad idea, the bearing wear on the main pivot, having to update the bike setup after purchase, these are things you should not have to handle/deal with when you have a such a hi end bike.

fellow pinner · Oct 21, 2007

get a hard tail i you dont like linkage

davep · Oct 21, 2007

DirtyMike said:
Im not a fan of the Turner DHR myself for more than one reason, the bearing issues is a minor issue in my book, but also seting up the bike with a slack HT allows the tire to hit the seat tube wearing through it, man thats just a bad idea, the bearing wear on the main pivot, having to update the bike setup after purchase, these are things you should not have to handle/deal with when you have a such a hi end bike.

????huh???

Not sure how you got the rear tire to hit the frame... even with the drilling mod to lower and slacken the frame, the rear tire has plenty of clearance.

To the orig poster: there is a fair bit of information here (search) as well as the turner board at MTBR about how to maintain your frame. but it is really this simple.....The needle bearings in the linkage need regular greasing throught the zirks (that is why they are there) especially in wet weather. That is the only thing I needed to do to keep mine trouble free for 2 full seasons...

as for the main bearings.....you say you replaced the original ones..they had loctite on them..this should be a good clue that you need to put some 609 in there when you press the new bearings. B.Y.O is spot on in this regard, and the system turner used is quite robust and allows the perfect amount of bearing preload adn alignment with the semi-floating bearing set-up. In the future, you might be better served by asking for help (for example, "How do I replace the main bearings in my DHR..they keep moving/coming loose?") before things get so messed up.

Contact Greg @ turner, he will take care of you.

muddyfox · Oct 21, 2007

This is a pretty common problem with the DHR's call Greg @ Turner and he'll take care of you.

deadatbirth · Oct 21, 2007

call greg @ turner......sorry had to say it since everyone else is

Ian Collins · Oct 21, 2007

1) take some grammar and vocabulary lessons...

2) based on your lack of intelligence i gather from that rant, i would assume you do not know how to use simple tools such as wrenches.....so, i'm guessing you did not have the frame's hardware installed and torqued correctly....

3) i never had a problem with my 2006 DHR and i flogged it to death.....

4)...maybe call turner directly(telephone, not email) about this issue? .... they happen to be known for having the best customer service one could wish for in the world of boutique MTB frames.....however, if i were them and i read this post, i would be tempted to hang you out to dry

buildyourown · Oct 21, 2007

1nVALID said:
Did u guys feel a little play in the bearings even when they were new ? (while sqeezing them in hands, the inner ring can move in respect tothe outer one) that is weird.

The bearings are angular contact. The inner race is tapered so when properly preloaded, the will be zero play. This is the whole point of having a gap that must be filled with loctite.

Ian Collins · Oct 21, 2007

1nVALID said:
I made a few mistakes and thats what I want to fix now.

ok, well....all i'm saying is if you made the mistakes, posting a thread entitled "turner DHR, piece of crap" is way out of line.....

ekozy39 · Oct 22, 2007

Ian Collins said:
ok, well....all i'm saying is if you made the mistakes, posting a thread entitled "turner DHR, piece of crap" is way out of line.....

Give the guy a break, his title was little out of line, but considering he is from outside the US, he probably paid $8,000 for the frame and expected a little more than he got.

DirtyMike · Oct 22, 2007

davep said:
????huh???

Not sure how you got the rear tire to hit the frame... even with the drilling mod to lower and slacken the frame, the rear tire has plenty of clearance.

Contact Greg @ turner, he will take care of you.

Damnit, Apologies Owed, I am/was getting two different bikes crossed. Its not the Turner that has the tire hit the frame, None the less, i am not a fan of the turner , seems like too little bike for too much money. To clarify, after being at the shop today, Its teh Morewood that has the tire issues, seen Pics here bunches of times with all the paint rubbed off the seat tube, and had a bunch in teh shop with holes worn through the seat tube from it. Turner does have great CS, as far as a total fix for the bearing issue, it still dissapoints me that with the price there would be a problem in the first place

jvnixon · Oct 22, 2007

DirtyMike said:
Damnit, Apologies Owed, I am/was getting two different bikes crossed. Its not the Turner that has the tire hit the frame, None the less, i am not a fan of the turner , seems like too little bike for too much money. To clarify, after being at the shop today, Its teh Morewood that has the tire issues, seen Pics here bunches of times with all the paint rubbed off the seat tube, and had a bunch in teh shop with holes worn through the seat tube from it. Turner does have great CS, as far as a total fix for the bearing issue, it still dissapoints me that with the price there would be a problem in the first place

Thats the 2005 version that rubbed, its been fixed as far as I know since the 06 version. Next.

bizutch · Oct 22, 2007

Boy...if we had a top 10 Worst threads forum, I'd say this one would get at least an honorable mention.

Oh...and further degrade it.....Karpiel blows.

bizutch · Oct 22, 2007

1nVALID said:
Biz: You probably dont care for your hardware because when you break something you just get a new one and everything is ok. I didnt get the frame for free and had to spend a whole month salary to afford it. And because people who serviced it did their job badly i was really angry. Some people understand that some dont.

Crap dude, you are so far off base it's not even funny!!!! I pay for ALL my stuff!! Have for a long time. I'm not fast enough to get free stuff...hell, I just turned 35. But I am fast on one thing...RESPECT! Respect a company that has busted it's ass for DH'ers from day 1. Dave Turner loses money on just about every DHR he sells. But he still builds them because DH guys love his bikes and the bottom line is they have THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE of any company in the USA. NO CONTEST!

You need to break out your calling card, your English lessons and make a really SIMPLE PHONE CALL! Ask for Greg! He will set you straight and do it with a big smile on his face. Email is fokking lazy!

Don't be a cheapskate...if you want a great frame...2 years old no less...and want those bearings done right, pay the few dollars to make the international call!

Don't get on an internet forum...post a really crappy title to the thread and expect people to read 3 pages deep into it to find out you're too lazy to call! It's got 1215 views by now and all of a dozen riders who've responded. The rest either dismissed you after reading or now think you've uncovered a dark secret about a company they might have bought a bike from if not for your ill will without recourse???

lthumbsdown:

Cant Climb · Oct 22, 2007

The guy gets flogged to death because he used the word crap .....english isn't even his native tongue.....

Turner linkage can be a headache. I've seen it on a few bikes. The spacing seems inconsistent.......

Getting ahold of them can be a pain.
The guy's in a foreign country.
And speaks a different language.

ekozy39 · Oct 22, 2007

www.loctite.com

kidwoo · Oct 22, 2007

Use the 641.

That's the stuff designed for bearings in housings.

You don't want the extremely high rated stuff. It hardens and becomes brittle.

Old_Sckool · Oct 22, 2007

This kind of thread really pisses me off.

This is the standard for all the $hitty threads posted. Seriously, there ought to be a template for threads like this to make it easier for the idiots to post.

Same old story. Guy registers just to bitch. This was his first post and its a bunch of crap. He's probably made this same post on other forums. Say's the bikes only 2 months old but it's an 06 frame, last time I checked it's nearly 2008. So yeah, maybe his frame is old stock, I'll give him that. He probably bought it second hand and doesn't want to call Turner, cause he's not the original owner. Well guess what? Turner is one of the few company's that would still help him out, even if he's not the original owner. But hey, why give them the chance. Let's just start an inflammatory thread and make a bogus statement and tell the world just how dumb you're capable of sounding.

Whats the problem? The guys ignorant. Doesn't know how fix his bike. It's been repaired wrong by others including himself and because he and everyone else is incompetent, we get........"TURNER DHR IS CRAP"

Same thing all the time, insert whatever your want. Classic example, "Boxxer maxle SUCKS!!" Translation, I don't know what the f**k I'm doing, so I'll blame the manufacturer . Christ, I had to make a video and YouTube it to prove the Boxxer maxle could be removed and installed in less the a minute with a single hex wrench.

The reality is, most people shouldn't be allowed to use tools, even a lot of people who are paid to do it for a living. This is an undeniable fact. This guys says he's an engineer and I wouldn't doubt it. They're some of the worst when it comes to actually using tools. Great at mathematical models, but when it comes to practical application they're worse then most.

Most these threads are just clowns parroting what they've read by others on the internet. Yeah, makes 'em sound like they really know what they're talking about. Even though they haven't got a clue.

So let's set the record straight. Ovalized bearing mounting holes are caused by either

A: improper installation
or
B: continuing to ride when your swing arm is loose
or
C: abuse (this is the least likely cause)

So, as you can see to two main cause are stupidity.

You guys concurring that this is a serious problem with DHR's are full of it. I doubt you even have any actual experience other then what you've heard thru threads like these. The reality is that the DHR has been using the same basic main pivot design since 2000, with only minor changes. The only time there was an actually TRUE design flaw was 2003 when they under built the BB assembly and had some cracking issues (which Turner has always made good on, I have first hand experience with that) . Otherwise, it's been one of the most reliable pivot designs out there.

Just because its not idiot proof, doesn't make it a bad design.

And quit sticking up for this guy cause he's in another country. He is the U.K. according to his own post. Last time I checked, that was an English speaking country. His English skills seem adequate to me, to have chosen his initial wording with more care.

Not to mention, he edited his original post, after taking a ton of heat. That's why he sounds semi-rational if you're just tuning in.

BTW. I'm refurbishing my son's 5spot. Just talked to Greg at Turner this morning and ordered some 5.5 rockers. They answered the phone in 2 rings and did not put me on hold. The reality is email is the worst way to communicate with most business. Its already been said countless times, but it bears repeating. If you don't get an email response. PICK UP THE PHONE. The fact that you're in another country is no big deal in the age we live in.

muddyfox · Oct 22, 2007

Old Sckool I agree with you on most points but I'm not full of it when I say that the pivot ovalizing was an issue on the DHR. I owned a DHR and had the same thing happen twice on 2 seperate frames. The customer service there was great and they replaced both frames in 1 day, but with as many people having the same problem I would say it's an design issue with the frame. I've never had my main pivot point ovalize in 1 ride with any other frame (I'm super anal about making sure pivots are tight, if it's loose at the end of a ride I fix it). Turner issued a shim kit to help fix the problem, and if I'm not mistaken they have now re-designed the pivot on the 08's (or it looks like they have from the pics I've seen).

kidwoo · Oct 22, 2007

muddyfox said:
I've never had my main pivot point ovalize in 1 ride with any other frame

That probably includes your turner

Old_Sckool · Oct 22, 2007

MuddyFox

Please don't misunderstand me. I realize there were some legit ovalization problem going on. To my knowledge, that was a particular run of frames, hence the shim fix. The ovalization is caused by the bearings "wiggling" for lack of a better term, in their wells. The ones that needed the shims where due to a manufacturers defect/quality control issue, NOT a design issue. I still maintain that MOST are a result of ham fisted mechanics or poor maintenance. You most likely just got one of the bad frames.

My prior point was...... if it was a "design" problem. Common sense dictates that it would affect most of the frames. Instead a small percentage.

Look at it this way, venture a guess at how many DHR's have been sold since 2000? I personally have no idea, but I would guess a lot. The reality is if it was a "design" problem, Turner would have probably went broke a long time ago warranting all the frames.

Personally, I have had 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2005 DHR's. I still have the 04 and 05. I have never had a problem with ovalization. If it was a problem with the design, I would expected to have a problem with a least one if not all.

As far as the change in the 07's to prior years. The 07's are a pretty major redesign. I mean other then cosmetics, not a lot changed from 03 to 06 and other the geo, not much from 2000 to 06. The 07's, got geo change, cosmetic change, shock change, wider bb (83mm), wider rear hub (150mm) and is built much lighter. But overall the basic suspension design is still the same. Sure the swing arm now mounts on the outside of the triangle and that could very well be stronger, but that doesn't mean the prior design was flawed. For all we know, there could be more failures on the 07's due to this change. Only time will tell.

Strakar · Oct 23, 2007

Old_Sckool said:
blahblahblah

Being from Europe and having bought several frames from the US, I can tell you that you pay double, that with many brands you receive lousy customer support from national distributors, that when you establish direct contact, email can take a lot of time, and even phone conversations can get surprisingly confuse (and my written and spoken English is good).

Instead of going out of your way to call him ignorant and so on, help him if you can. He spent a lot of money on a continuously under-performing frame, and info to repair it is not as widely available as it is there (Turner around here is just another good brand, it's not seen as the end-all bike manufacturer that it seems to be in the US). Don't know/want how to help him, shut the fvck up and let others do it.

bizutch · Oct 23, 2007

Strakar...the general point is...we DON'T need to help because that is what the phone # at Turner is for...that's all.

BTW, cool avatar.

Old_Sckool · Oct 23, 2007

Strakar said:
Being from Europe and having bought several frames from the US, I can tell you that you pay double, that with many brands you receive lousy customer support from national distributors, that when you establish direct contact, email can take a lot of time, and even phone conversations can get surprisingly confuse (and my written and spoken English is good).

Instead of going out of your way to call him ignorant and so on, help him if you can. He spent a lot of money on a continuously under-performing frame, and info to repair it is not as widely available as it is there (Turner around here is just another good brand, it's not seen as the end-all bike manufacturer that it seems to be in the US). Don't know/want how to help him, shut the fvck up and let others do it.

Man, you just don't get it. His very first post wasn't to ask for help. It was to beat the company and the product down and make it sound like a piece of crap, without even giving the company a chance to help him. Wheres the confusion? Remember, he edited his first post, so you're not reading his original post. But the post the title clearly shows his intent.

I realize its a hassle when you buy a foreign product with no real support in your country. I've owned both a Nicolai Lambda and a Nucleon. At the time there was ONE bike shop in the entire USA that was a dealer for them. And they had just taken on the line, so really they knew nothing about them. If I had a problem with the bike. I wouldn't go register on a German bike forum, make my first post be a "Lambda is a piece of Crap" and expect to get a positive response. Does that make sense to you?

The fact that its a pain because you are in another country does justify his actions. If you don't want to go thru the extra trouble of dealing with a foreign manufacturer, then why buy one? Stick with a Euro bike or deal with the headache.

And yes calling him "ignorant" was the right word. It means a lack of knowledge. It's not a derogatory term.

As far as not helping him. I would have been more then happy to; had he asked respectfully for it in his first post. While he did have a line in there asking a question, almost the entire post was ORIGINALLY a rant against Turner. So if you read my posts in that context, maybe you'll understand my point of view better.

Turner DHR, piece of crap.

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