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Turner goes non-horst...

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Sherpa, Sep 24, 2005.

  1. Sherpa

    Sherpa Basking in fail.

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  2. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    F

    :(

    But maybe they'll be cheaper, I guess.
     
  3. Kntr

    Kntr Turbo Monkey

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    No horst link. Oh man, I can hear it already.
     
  4. WheelieMan

    WheelieMan Monkey

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    Nooooo, the world is coming to an end!!

    I'm not seeing as video at the first link, is there supposed to be one?

    That's actually pretty shocking to me. Turner claims that the only reason they ditched horst-link is because the axle path is no different from a single-pivot? Well duh. But then it confuses me why Turner would claim that a horst-link closer to the ground like on the NRS is more effective. Sure, it changes the shape of the axle-path more, but that's not the point of the horst-link...
     
  5. RPG

    RPG Monkey

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    Turner is now a KONA???? I guess I'll be waiting for the new IH Type 6 instead of a 6 pack. I'm dissappointed.
     
  6. bballboy388

    bballboy388 Monkey

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    i thought it ment that they wont be using the horst link for that bike in the second link cause its single piviot. wouldnt that mean for there 4bar linkage ones they would still use it?
     
  7. Sherpa

    Sherpa Basking in fail.

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    Go to an English class, please.
     
  8. WheelieMan

    WheelieMan Monkey

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    In the first link Turner makes it clear that they are dropping the horst-link from all models.

    For the Highline, dropping the horst-link makes perfect sense. Even with a horst-link, the orientation of the top link would cause the frame to brake like a single-pivot.
     
  9. Fulton

    Fulton Monkey

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    I for one am kinda happy about this. Should bring the frame price down, and I can't tell the difference between a ventana X-5 (non horst), and turner 5 spot (horst), suspension wise.
     
  10. ChrisRobin

    ChrisRobin Turbo Monkey

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    If I remember correctly, Turner came up with that suspension system first and then everyone else used it.
     
  11. Fulton

    Fulton Monkey

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    actually, I think it was AMP
     
  12. binary visions

    binary visions The voice of reason

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    Care to inform us of the significant differences between the Horst and non-Horst suspension designs?
     
  13. arboc!

    arboc! Turbo Monkey

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    yeah, i dont get it
     
  14. Grizzle

    Grizzle Monkey

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    the only major advantage that the horst link had was that it helped isolate the brake caliper mount from the swingarms rotation. Basically, without the horst link, when you grab rear brake, the rear suspension will compress a little. With horst link, the rear suspension stays where it is more.
     
  15. binary visions

    binary visions The voice of reason

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    Right. Actually, I knew the difference, I was just baiting RPG there to see if he was under the typical delusion that a Horst link provides a magical, verticle axle path that somehow causes it to do everything perfectly ;)
     
  16. Grizzle

    Grizzle Monkey

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    Oh, right. Sorry, i forgot to mentoin that the seatstay bars are made with flubber impregnated titanium, making them absorb the largest bumps and pedal bob, turning it directly into forward SPEED!!!
     
  17. chillindrdude

    chillindrdude Turbo Monkey

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    hurray for increased brake jack
     
  18. binary visions

    binary visions The voice of reason

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    Ahahaha... Awesome.

    New signature :thumb: :D
     
  19. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    Yep, increased brake jack, and poorer pedaling characteristics. Low pivot single pivot bikes rely more on platforms to pedal better. Even ridden a concentric pivot? LOL... Increased brake squat and stiffening is going to happen as a result of caliper rotation, which will exist on the "new" turners.

    I have an "old" turner :D
     
  20. RaID

    RaID Turbo Monkey

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    looks like the current Turners are going to become more sought after
    like the 02 super t
     
  21. RPG

    RPG Monkey

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    Hey, I know that all this horst link bs is marketing hype derived by specialized. I was just taken back by the shock of the change. I've owned 3 turners, 2 of which were single pivots. I just would like to know if they abandoned the link due to license fees. For my application, trail bike, pivot placement doesn't matter.
     
  22. binary visions

    binary visions The voice of reason

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    Then why did you deride it with your comment about turning Kona and how you were disappointed?
     
  23. rpk1988

    rpk1988 90210

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    Sweet Turner, but your car has a flat tire. You should restore that beast back there. :D
     
  24. vitox

    vitox Turbo Monkey

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    ouch!!!!
    how i pity the person who had to write that, plus i think it wasnt necessary to get into that detail of the 180º degree turn their "suspension developement" has taken.

    "Over the years our Horst links have been moved closer to the axle in order to reduce the noise of the derailleur hitting the frame on rough ground. As the pivot gets closer to the rear axle" for instance, sounds like "all our suspension technology wasnt worth more than a bit of noise from the rear derailleur.
     
  25. vitox

    vitox Turbo Monkey

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    i cant quite decide if to interpret it as "sorry we were actually misleading people all these years with our previous marketing"

    or "during all these years we believed what specialized said, now we have decided to trust another company, just because"

    or mose likely i guess "we will be doing a fiancial move and change to a different suspension system, our clients already know that our forte is not suspension design but frame execution, customer service and durability, and stay with us"
     
  26. Rik

    Rik Turbo Monkey

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    I cringed when I read that.
     
  27. WheelieMan

    WheelieMan Monkey

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    Yeah, I had to read that sentence twice because I could hardly believe it. Ever heard of a SRAM derailleur? They don't make any noise at all...
     
  28. frorider

    frorider Monkey

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    yeah i think we all cringed reading that.

    FWIW, this thread on mtbr suggests that part of the reason is getting away from the licensing hassles of horst link/ellsworth.
     
  29. Discostu

    Discostu Monkey

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    So essentially Turner's angle for their 2006 bikes is "we swear it hasn't gotten any worse". So much for progress.

    I hope everyone who is expecting price drops won't be dissapointed...
     
  30. Urban FR'er 666

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    TNT huh??? :confused:

    Well, atleast they picked a good name for it, b/c THIS REALLY "BLOWS"!!! :stosh:
     
  31. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    Yeah, this part really rubs me the wrong way. Turner seems to be very vocal about "oh, it rides the same" or "we can't tell the difference in a blind test". That's all fine and dandy, but we don't care about what is "the same", we want progress, something better. If it's not better, don't waste my time. Whether it was true or not, Turner rode on the "specialized/horst link" wave, and now they aren't going to just "undo" all of that brainwashing all of a sudden.
     
  32. Grizzle

    Grizzle Monkey

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    Maybe the bikes will cost less now due to not having to pay lisence fees?
     
  33. Sherpa

    Sherpa Basking in fail.

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    Nope, Casey (recently departed from Turner as well) said prices will stay the same.
     
  34. WheelieMan

    WheelieMan Monkey

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    Either that or Turner will make more profit.
     
  35. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    Turner said (in another article) that he was having a hard time competing against other "botique" manufacturers that were getting their frames made overseas, such as Yeti, and now Titus, amongst others. I'd say this is a reason why prices haven't/won't go down.
     
  36. BillT

    BillT Monkey

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    I think Turner is going to find it a bit difficult to change the flavor of their kool-aid.

    I am looking to replace my Bullit with something new around Feb/Mar of next year so I hope I'll be able to source an obsolete 6 Pack, if not, I'll look elsewhere.
     
  37. Acadian

    Acadian Born Again Newbie

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    I love this thread:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=132355

    I read that article last week - and that is the first thing I popped into my mind when i heard about all this...

    I was out riding all day yesterday, so I had to catch up on those thread this morning. Some make it sound like it's the end of the world..there are OTHER bikes out there other than Turner. If you are a die hard Turner cult member, then accept the changes, if not, MOVE ON.

    Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my 5-spot and glad I have one of the original’s…but there are other great trail bikes out there - I won't comment on which ones since it's a personal thing and I got my preference...but by reading some of the threads on MTBR its like Rita just demolished their world...
     
  38. binary visions

    binary visions The voice of reason

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    Uh, since when has Turner done something better?

    They make great bikes, but it's the same old bike over and over and over again. Tweaks to the frame, and the same suspension. They haven't done something significantly different in years.

    Turner is making a change to their frame that will have very little effect on the way the thing actually rides. Other than that, it's business as usual - and if you've been doing business with Turner, I hope you haven't been expecting revolutionary designs. They stick with tried-and-true designs and execute them well.

    Anyone who says "this sucks" or "I'm disappointed" just doesn't understand how similar a Horst link is to a non-Horst link. In a back to back blind test of two of the same bikes, one with a Horst link and one without, I'll bet 98% of the people riding won't be able to tell the difference.
     
  39. binary visions

    binary visions The voice of reason

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    Oh, I do agree, though, that they're eating their own words with this change.

    "Horst is the best!"

    "Wait, wait. Sorry, upon closer examination..."
     
  40. Sherpa

    Sherpa Basking in fail.

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    Its f'in funny isn't it?