[Floor Tom]

Are many of you running tyre inserts? Cush core or something else? What has your experience been like? What the pressure are you running and what did you run before? Anyone used them and then gone back? Dh bike or trail bike, I'm keen to hear your thoughts

I've been using Cushcore XC inserts in my trail bike for a few months now, I did it because I raced downhill on that bike and rode it in the bike park. Run front and rear with Maxxis Exo+ tyres, still not solid enough on the rear to be honest, the side walls are showing quite a bit of wear and have been weeping sealant. Pressures went from 27 - 29 to 23—25 and while I did like the feel of them they do add a noticeable amount of drag, now that bike doesn't need to be as burly I'm thinking I might stick with one in the back and run an Exo+ on the front. Not sure if that will unbalance things, be interesting to see.

Now I have a downhill bike and have fitted normal cush core front and rear, might try the xc one in the front when I take it out of the trail bike.

 

[jstuhlman]

nope. just went doubledown and haven't had an issue since.

 

[Floor Tom]

Yeah, I had DD before but they don't make a DHR2 29x2.4 DD MaxTerra, only a MaxGrip which is too soft for the trail bike and would mean I either need to run sticky rubber on the front as well or a gripper rear tyre than front tyre, neither of which I'm very interested in.

 

[Cerberus75]

I run an Assegai DD maxxgripp F DHR2 exo+ R with cushcore. When I kill the DHR I'm going to switch to DHF in the rear unless Maxxis puts out a DD tire for the Rear soon. I ride really rocky trails. I dropped about 4 psi with cushcore the protection is good haven't broke a rim since I started using the inserts. The lack of tire rebound keeps the tires glued to the trail.

 

[jstuhlman]

hmmmm...i just run dd dhf's front and rear. both probably the grippy compound. it's my trail bike. it's my dh bike. it's my around town beer bike. guess i'm just not too picky about it. love, love, LOVE doubledown though. fewest punctures/tears/burps/pinch flats (none) ever.

 

[jonKranked]

I've been running rimpact since October.

 

[Nick]

love, love, LOVE doubledown though. fewest punctures/tears/burps/pinch flats (none) ever.

 

[Toshi]

EXO+ DHF up front. No Cushcore.

Downhill casing DHR II in rear with Cushcore.

seems to work

 

[Floor Tom]

love, love, LOVE doubledown though. fewest punctures/tears/burps/pinch flats (none) ever.

I hear that, ran one for a while but it was a bit skinny (2.3 Dhr2). Really wish they made a 2.4 DHR2 29er in the trail rubber. Pretty sure I'd be happy then, might not even want the cush core at all since that bike doesn't get the same abuse it used to.

 

[Floor Tom]

I've been running rimpact since October.

They look decent, similar weight to the cush core xc too.

 

[Katz]

I used Cushcore for about a year inside various single-ply tires in the back.

I still got a couple of pinch flats (at 26.5 psi) and dinged the rim. Not that I'm fast or fat, I like gapping stuff as I'm reasonably proficient at bunnyhopping. Sometimes landing doesn't go like I planned. And then, there are sidewall cuts. Inserts don't turn a 1-ply tire into a 2-ply tire.

So I switched to 2-ply tire with no insert last September. I've only ridden like 400 miles since, due to work and exceptionally cold (for me) weather. I still ping the rim occasionally at 27 psi, but no ding/cuts/flats thus far.

I never really experienced the magical extra damping of inserts people talk about on the internet, but I wasn't able to run lower pressure anyway and I'm not particularly in-tune and sensitive about that kind of stuff. If anything, I think DH-casing tires make the bike feel more calm on choppy descent.

That's been my experience. Didn't work all that well for my local terrain and my riding style/skill level. YMMV.

 

[jonKranked]

They look decent, similar weight to the cush core xc too.

I've been happy with them. Installation was easy too. Honestly probably easier to seat the tire with them than without, I was able to use a regular floor pump instead of a compressor. I haven't experimented with tire pressure, but I'd maybe 1 or 2 psi lower than previously. Biggest difference for me is not deforming / rolling tires in corners and I probably don't bottom the tires on the rims as much.

 

[FlipFantasia]

no to inserts, dh casing and forget about it

 

[Da Peach]

no to inserts, dh casing and forget about it

certainly seems like the simplest option

 

[Floor Tom]

no to inserts, dh casing and forget about it

On the trail bike?

 

[FlipFantasia]

On the trail bike?

yeah, if you're riding aggressively enough to think you need inserts, why not cut the bullshit and just run dh casing? weight wise it'll probably be a wash, so why add complexity?

 

[Westy]

yeah, if you're riding aggressively enough to think you need inserts, why not cut the bullshit and just run dh casing? weight wise it'll probably be a wash, so why add complexity?

Rolling resistance on a DH casing can make pedaling a miserable experience. It is almost like they were designed for bikes that were never intended to climb.

'Round here a DH casing on the front tire makes little difference as either you are climbing steep stuff with little weight on the front or going down steep stuff. I know several people who run a DH casing up front and an insert in the back. I run a DH casing in the front but only for the maxxgrip compound in the wet winter months, our rocks tend to be rather friendly and round and tire damage isn't much of a problem.

 

[Floor Tom]

yeah, if you're riding aggressively enough to think you need inserts, why not cut the bullshit and just run dh casing? weight wise it'll probably be a wash, so why add complexity?

Fair enough, I can see an argument either way, inserts let you run lower pressure without getting tyre roll or having to worry about your rims, but they are extra faff and you still need to run a somewhat burly casing anyway which might make a dh casing lighter overall.

I'm on the fence for the trail bike though they seem like a good option for a full on dh bike.

 

[FlipFantasia]

I ran dh casings on my 'trail' bike the past 4 years living in whistler with lots of riding in pemby, bike park, gnarly descents across bc and some enduro racing, including transprovence, and didn't have a single flat. Yeah they roll slower than typical, but I did plenty of big climbs/rides with them and for me not having to worry about flats or traction and being able to run low pressures is worth the trade off. I hate faffing about with tire bullshit, so inserts is 100% non starter for me, I'll take the rolling resistance penalty.

 

[buckoW]

I try and avoid running them if possible for weight and faff reasons but in the middle of the summer when all the bike park g-out trails are working then I run a Cush Core and DH casing in the rear only.

 

[fwp]

On east coast rocks I run Cushcore front and rear. Its nice to know that if you get a flat in a high speed rock garden you aren't smashing expensive wheels off rocks at speed until you slow down. Nothing short of an insert will give me that peace of mind.
I use to run DH casing with procore rear got a puncture through the tire, inner procore sleeve and tube, wrecked a brand new rim.
I get the weight penalty sucks but its worth it if it saves my wheel.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I run whatever tire I happen to favor on whatever rim I happen to have on hand with no stupid inserts. Every once in a while I trash a tire, every once in a while a rim. It's all part of the game. Of course, I ride like a wimp... Edit: All the trashing experience I have encountered has been on east coast rocks, FWIW...

 

[StiHacka]

You

I run whatever tire I happen to favor on whatever rim I happen to have on hand with no stupid inserts. Every once in a while I trash a tire, every once in a while a rim. It's all part of the game. Of course, I ride like a wimp... Edit: All the trashing experience I have encountered has been on east coast rocks, FWIW...

You also weight 110lbs.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

You

You also weight 110lbs.

157, but yeah...

 

[mtg]

Interesting. I used to have a lot of problems with flat tires from denting rims (that would no longer seal) or pinch slicing tires, even with DoubleDown casings. After over 2 years running CushCore with EXO casings, I still have yet to flat one of them. As a plus, the small bump compliance is better on the thinner casings, rolling resistance is lower, and the foam provides more damping through rocks than a thicker casing.

 

[slyfink]

Interesting. I used to have a lot of problems with flat tires from denting rims (that would no longer seal) or pinch slicing tires, even with DoubleDown casings. After over 2 years running CushCore with EXO casings, I still have yet to flat one of them. As a plus, the small bump compliance is better on the thinner casings, rolling resistance is lower, and the foam provides more damping through rocks than a thicker casing.

Is this in the DT Swiss rims?

I have one more spare DD DHRII. when that one dies, I may give CC a try. My problem with flatting has only ever been due to pinching tires. I'm guessing rim wall shape, strength and angle all have a role to play in this scenario.

 

[jonKranked]

while i can't speak for cushcore, the rimpact inserts are super easy to install. and i mean super easy. if anything, i'd say over the process might be a little easier, as i was able to use the insert as leverage to get enough of the tire bead seated that i didn't need to use an air compressor, and was able to fully seat it using a regular floor pump.

 

[Cerberus75]

On east coast rocks I run Cushcore front and rear. Its nice to know that if you get a flat in a high speed rock garden you aren't smashing expensive wheels off rocks at speed until you slow down. Nothing short of an insert will give me that peace of mind.
I use to run DH casing with procore rear got a puncture through the tire, inner procore sleeve and tube, wrecked a brand new rim.
I get the weight penalty sucks but its worth it if it saves my wheel.

This is my experience as well. East coast riding would trash many tires and at least a rim a season. With cushcore I can now replace tires when the knobs are worn most the time.

 

[slyfink]

This is my experience as well. East coast riding would trash many tires and at least a rim a season. With cushcore I can now replace tires when the knobs are worn most the time.

This experience has been brought to me by DD casing... It's good to have options I guess!?!

 

[HAB]

Interesting. I used to have a lot of problems with flat tires from denting rims (that would no longer seal) or pinch slicing tires, even with DoubleDown casings. After over 2 years running CushCore with EXO casings, I still have yet to flat one of them. As a plus, the small bump compliance is better on the thinner casings, rolling resistance is lower, and the foam provides more damping through rocks than a thicker casing.

Yeah, I think it definitely depends a lot on what kinds of failures you're seeing. CushCore does a way better job of protecting the rim than a burlier sidewall does, and helps prevent pinch flats to the casing as well. If you're getting pinch flats and/or slashing sidewalls, a burlier casing handles that well.

 

[Floor Tom]

while i can't speak for cushcore, the rimpact inserts are super easy to install.

I wouldn't call Cushcore super easy to install, not too bad but on a different level to just fitting a new tyre. The xc ones are easier than the standard ones but still a lot more work.

 

[mtg]

Is this in the DT Swiss rims?

I have one more spare DD DHRII. when that one dies, I may give CC a try. My problem with flatting has only ever been due to pinching tires. I'm guessing rim wall shape, strength and angle all have a role to play in this scenario.

Yes, DT rims, which have been some EX471's, and mostly XM481's.

Obviously the heavier rims would hold up better without CC, but for those that have issues with bottoming out rocks/tires on rims, my experience says it works better to use a bottom out bumper (eg CushCore) and keep everything else relatively light vs using heavy rims and tires. Part of the reason is the other benefits of rolling resistance and tire damping over rocks.
If your main issue is slicing tire casings that is not from pinching between rock and rim, that's where thicker casings make sense to me.

 

[canadmos]

I've trashed two rims on rocks in the past 6 months. Is CC or something similar worth the hassle? Problem is, is that inserts aren't needed at all for the riding where I live. There are very little rocks in the dirt here and when going up north in the summer, you're riding on big rock slabs and not chunky rock gardens and such.

Do you need to use more sealant when you have an insert?

Think the XC version of CC would be worth installing for trips?

Why are inserts so expensive?

 

[djjohnr]

All my rim trashing this year has been on DD/DH casings. I'd rather live with replacing rims than add another 200 grams.

 

[Floor Tom]

Yes I think the xc version might be worth trying out for you. I have a friend visit recently from Whistler who has started using a standard cush core in the rear, he swears that its saved him more than one rim already, he's been using iy for maybe 6 months if that.
I have witnessed his rim destroying antics in the past and would tend to believe him.

The xc version is narrower so if you run rims at 30mm internal or less, and tyres at 2.4 or narrower and don't need as much protection then they are a good bit lighter.

 

[mykel]

I have been wondering about them for the big bike, but for cutting trail chatter. Anything to help with the nerve damage so I can actually hang on to the damn thing. Nobody in my riding group uses or has ridden them, so no idea how they would work for that purpose. My last two demo'd rims have been taco'd rather than dents/flatspotted and as @canadmos and I play at the same lift park - am interested in how Chris makes out if he decides to jump. Other issue is that I can not get them direct anymore. Must go through Canukistani distro channels, so BOHICA. And, I need a 26 / 27.5 combo and I have not seen a standard 26 for sale up here in commie-land or online now that I think about it.

 

[Floor Tom]

In my experience it will help take the edge off the chatter but won't get rid of it, though I'm sure you weren't expecting to get rid of it entirely.

 

[jonKranked]

I have been wondering about them for the big bike, but for cutting trail chatter. Anything to help with the nerve damage so I can actually hang on to the damn thing. Nobody in my riding group uses or has ridden them, so no idea how they would work for that purpose. My last two demo'd rims have been taco'd rather than dents/flatspotted and as @canadmos and I play at the same lift park - am interested in how Chris makes out if he decides to jump. Other issue is that I can not get them direct anymore. Must go through Canukistani distro channels, so BOHICA. And, I need a 26 / 27.5 combo and I have not seen a standard 26 for sale up here in commie-land or online now that I think about it.

Original rimpact is available in any wheel size combo you need - 26/275/29. The new pro version is only 275/29.

 

[jonKranked]

Why are inserts so expensive?

probably relatively low production volumes. also foam extrusion/forming isn't cheap. and the base polymers that are being used are higher end stuff than the cheap foams you're used to seeing.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Why are inserts so expensive?

Like @jonKranked said but mostly because