[Transcend]

If you didn't race pro I'd kick you in the nuts. And screw the Canadian Series, there is no series... it's just a bunch of upper-level races now, isn't it?

It is a series with UCI points and prize money. Tremblant is the worst course on it however .

 

[CBJ]

He races pro when it suits, then am when he thinks he can get a payday. That is sandbagging, plain and simple. It's also pretty sad.

What is sad is you typical know it all comments but if that is only way you can express yourself so be it.

 

[Transcend]

What is sad is you typical know it all comments but if that is only way you can express yourself so be it.

 

[S.K.C.]

ChrisKring:

There are way too many sandbaggers in the AM class to even think about grabbing some prizes. The top guys in that class would be near the top of the pro class. I am fast enough to practice in the pro class without getting in Kovariks way so I prefer to have a good time practicing without backups and possibly not qualify. I missed qualifing last year. However, my time would have been good enough to qualify in the top 30 in 2004 so that tells you how much faster the field is getting. It is cool to try to hang on to the back of Rennie, Hill, etc and learn something.

...yeah - there are a lot of SUPER fast guys in Am class for sure... But I don't think they are THAT fast.

If I remember correctly the times for the winners in Pro class correctly from its inception:

2003: Bryn Atkinson - Mad Catz/ Iron Horse, 3:55
2004: Sam Hill - Mad Catz / Iron Horse, 2:54
2005: Sam Hill - Mad Catz / Iron Horse, 2:52
2006: ???

...so the field is definitley getting fast in pro for sure. I'm pretty sure Havukainen will be there for I.H. this year....

Man - I remember last year how close it was between 1st and 2nd for Am class - Tremain was like "Yeah I got beaten by like X tenths of a second - no big deal..." but that had to have killed him. Marc is REALLY fast and a great rider.

I'm going Am class again this year - still learning the necesssary skillz to tear it up. Woof's learning curve is ridiculous - I remember him charging the last 5ft. drop at Duryea last Oct. like it was nothing. There is this crazy steep off camber approach to the drop, and if you sketch out - you're boned. Glad to see you stepping it up to Pro class for the Open Kenny!

See you guys there.

 

[woof]

He races pro when it suits, then am when he thinks he can get a payday. That is sandbagging, plain and simple. It's also pretty sad.

Plain and simple, you're an asshole. I asked a simple question and also responded to your comments without attack. I can appreciate Dom's feedback but your level of intelligence is apparent by your willingness to pass judgement on someone you know nothing about.

 

[woof]

Thanks C.K. and CBJ.:heart:

 

[Transcend]

Plain and simple, you're an asshole. I asked a simple question and also responded to your comments without attack. I can appreciate Dom's feedback but your level of intelligence is apparent by your willingness to pass judgement on someone you know nothing about.

If you say so. I didn't attack anything, I simply said not to sandbag and be a moron.

Does anyone see a problem with with racing am for the Open even thou I'm racing pro for the Domination Series

And this is fair to the real Ams who race that category day in and day out?

 

[konahucker43]

hell i am racing am. i probably could race pro and do ok but o well

 

[Pip3r]

dom is anything going to be done this year to prevent sandbagging in AM? i know its a tricky issue where as its not a governed race.
im stoked, waiting as long as i can though to register incase i get hurt.
is there a limited number of entrants?

 

[DS Dom]

dom is anything going to be done this year to prevent sandbagging in AM? i know its a tricky issue where as its not a governed race.
im stoked, waiting as long as i can though to register incase i get hurt.
is there a limited number of entrants?

I don't think that sandbagging has really been an issue yet, last season the top 8 were within 3 seconds of eachother and none of them would have done better than 45th in the pro class. I have been trying to come up with ideas that for a clear cut off point, but it seems pretty difficult since its not a norba sanctioned race. I would like to see a rule that requires anyone holding an UCI elite or NORBA semi-pro and above license to enter in Pro. There have not been any cases that I know of yet where someone has done this and walked away with prizes, but thats not to say it couldn't happen.

 

[S.K.C.]

Transcend:

He races pro when it suits, then am when he thinks he can get a payday. That is sandbagging, plain and simple. It's also pretty sad.

Transcend - I know this guy and I've done a few races with him, and I can tell you he isn't one of those ultra-competitive jerks who play both sides of the race class fence to use to their advantage. Woof is a no bullsh!t, friendly, well-mannered guy. The Open is a bit tricky when it comes to figuring out where you belong - especially if you're new to the racing scene. You've got everyone from Am's to super fast Experts in Am class, so as was previously stated, a lot of tough decisions have to be made if you are around Sport/Expert level... do you risk it and try to qualify for Pro/Open or do you get a guaranteed spot in the Am race and hone your skills?...

I asked Shawn why they don't just have Intro/Am, Sport/Expert, and Pro/Open class, but he seems to like the structure they way it is...

 

[Transcend]

Transcend:


Transcend - I know this guy and I've done a few races with him, and I can tell you he isn't one of those ultra-competitive jerks who play both sides of the race class fence to use to their advantage. Woof is a no bullsh!t, friendly, well-mannered guy. The Open is a bit tricky when it comes to figuring out where you belong - especially if you're new to the racing scene. You've got everyone from Am's to super fast Experts in Am class, so as was previously stated, a lot of tough decisions have to be made if you are around Sport/Expert level... do you risk it and try to qualify for Pro/Open or do you get a guaranteed spot in the Am race and hone your skills?...

I asked Shawn why they don't just have Intro/Am, Sport/Expert, and Pro/Open class, but he seems to like the structure they way it is...

I just want to be clear here - I never said he WAS anything. I simply said not to sandbag.

It isn't fair to the other racers. My take on it if if he can race pro during the regular series on the same course, he should race class at the open - higher level of competition or not.

 

[S.K.C.]

I understand what you are saying about sandbagging, and I agree too. There are a lot of guys who try to pull that crap and it pisses me off as well. I like to see sportsmanship out on the track, and knowing first hand - Woof is one of those guys who shows it.

You gotta admit, you were a bit harsh on him not knowing him and all... :wonky2:

 

[Cant Climb]

Last year there was basically zero problems with pro practice. Definatly a lot less crowding issuess than Am. Plus the pros usually get the better (later) practice time.

......the only problem i found last year in Pro practice was the 'moderator' at the start ramp was not enforcing that only pros were on the course during pro practice......the guy seemed more interested in being everyones buddy......it didnt create a crowding problem it was more like they would stand in the middle of the trail trying to figure stuff out or to watch......it just got on my nerves because it something that could be easily remedied.....

 

[DS Dom]

......the only problem i found last year in Pro practice was the 'moderator' at the start ramp was not enforcing that only pros were on the course during pro practice......the guy seemed more interested in being everyones buddy......it didnt create a crowding problem it was more like they would stand in the middle of the trail trying to figure stuff out or to watch......it just got on my nerves because it something that could be easily remedied.....

Thats interesting, I saw him turn away at least 2 or 3 people. If this was actually happening it would have been nice for someone to mention it to shawn, marc or myself.

 

[ChrisKring]

I didn't see any AM racers poaching Pro practice. I did see a Pro racer poaching AM practice on Friday while I was walking the course. I confronted him for sandbaging AM class since he has a Norba semi-pro license. He then rode off really quickly. It turns out he was racing pro. His name is Erik. :nuts:

 

[S.K.C.]

... I have to admit it is pretty easy if you are an Am to sneak into Pro practice... The colored wristbands definitely help, but enforcement should be tighter this year. While I was watching pro practice, I saw some riders sneaking into the course down range by the wall-ride/rock slab...

I'm not pro, but I could definitely see how Am's could piss a guy off if he's trying to seriously focus on practice time.

Mick Hannah got pretty steamed at a couple of slow riders during Pro practice - I don't know if they were Am's, but - everyone is slow compared to that guy...

 

[Cant Climb]

Saturday morning there was some AM pushing his bike up the steep rock slab section and just as i dove in........craziest thing i ever saw......real moron.....

i saw others though....or maybe some of them were people who shoulda have been in AM....not sure....didnt see all the number plates....

 

[ViciousDHer]

just registered. pro for Me and am for the fourteen year old.

 

[sayndesyn]

I'll be there racing Am. I did pretty decent in the "Am" type of class in germany. I'm guessing they are comparable. How many people are typically in that class? I debated just running pro/open for the practice benefits, but not qualifying would suck big time.

 

[Transcend]

I'm not pro, but I could definitely see how Am's could piss a guy off if he's trying to seriously focus on practice time.

Mick Hannah got pretty steamed at a couple of slow riders during Pro practice - I don't know if they were Am's, but - everyone is slow compared to that guy...

Really? Mick is about the LAST guy I could see getting pissed off. When i busted myself up at mt snow a few years ago, i was trying to keep up with Mick during practice runs, he was more then happy to let me tag along, show me his (retarded) lines etc. Hell he even stopped to wait for me once or twice. He then had his trainer tape me up so i coudl race after i got hurt - class act.

 

[S.K.C.]

...I've never met the guy - but I too have heard nothing but good things about Mick. I guess I overstated things a bit - I saw him come up on 2 riders that were kinda cruising through the wide open section before the berms. He was haulin' the mail, and just yelled: MOVE! and sounded pissed... with the speed he was carrying, I guess he looked more aggro than he was. :


Saydsyn:

I'll be there racing Am. I did pretty decent in the "Am" type of class in germany. I'm guessing they are comparable. How many people are typically in that class? I debated just running pro/open for the practice benefits, but not qualifying would suck big time.

...Am class at the Open is definitely competitive, because it's not REALLY Am class in the traditional sense. Am class here is everyone from Am all the way up to Expert. Typically there are well over 100 riders in Am - I remember last year there were so many people showing up that Shawn had to start making temporary number plates...

 

[sayndesyn]

Cool, I'll be racing Expert in the Norba races so I guess that's the best fit.

 

[DS Dom]

...Am class at the Open is definitely competitive, because it's not REALLY Am class in the traditional sense. Am class here is everyone from Am all the way up to Expert. Typically there are well over 100 riders in Am - I remember last year there were so many people showing up that Shawn and to start making temporary number plates...

I don't really understand how or why you feel that Amateur is not really Amateur. In most sports, professionals are the guys that are crazy skilled and do it for a living. I understand that by this definition there are only a few downhillers that can actally make a living off racing, but expert class riders definatly fit into the category of Amateur. The beauty of the open is that it allows top Amateur riders to compete with the big dogs on the same course at the same time. Go watch a Pro/Am surf or snowboarding contest, the Am's definatly have A LOT more skill at what they do than a beginner/sport rider has in downhill.

 

[S.K.C.]

Right - but like I said I was referring to Am class in the traditional sense, as in riders of equal ability level in the same class.

Even though I've been around events like the U.S. Open of snowboarding since 92', I guess because it's bike racing I look at it differently - feels more serious to me than the atmosphere of being artistic in your competitive expression.

But yeah - you're right, it's called the Open, so the class structure is going to be different than say a NORBA or BMX race.

 

[manwithgun]

How is it that sandbagging has suddenly become a fierce topic when last years top three Ams were separated buy a total of .37 seconds???

 

[S.K.C.]

Good point.

 

[bikenweed]

...I've never met the guy - but I too have heard nothing but good things about Mick. I guess I overstated things a bit - I saw him come up on 2 riders that were kinda cruising through the wide open section before the berms. He was haulin' the mail, and just yelled: MOVE! and sounded pissed... with the speed he was carrying, I guess he looked more aggro than he was. :

I feel his pain. It's not a dick thing at all to yell MOVE, it's a race, and he needs his practice. It never feels good to get passed, but that's a risk you run if you want to race. If this were a Sunday afternoon ride, it would be a dick thing to do, but he came all the way from Oz to race. During the last few races I didn't yell at some riders to move during practice, got kinda close to their back wheels, and when they went to brake smashed into them and made them crash. It's embarasssing because it's happened three times in three weeks. This weekend I'll be hollering, and avoiding crashing.

 

[dante]

there were a lot of sandbaggers in AM last year, about 41 of them. :devil:

 

[bizutch]

wow...I just read 5 pages of crap....time to get back to work.

 

[dhbuilder]

wow...I just read 5 pages of crap....

no sh.. !

 

[S.K.C.]

Bizutch:

wow...I just read 5 pages of crap....time to get back to work.

...excellent.

Our plan worked PERFECTLY.

:evil:

 

[dhbuilder]

what's that, getting him back to work ?

 

[S.K.C.]

Lol - no - wasting the time of reading 5 pages of crap.