as long as the Italians are in cycling....there is always a chance of that happening.............Hmmm, maybe they just want to prevent this from happening in DH:
There was also the mister good body suit too both he and Cedric wore.
UCI bans skinsuits?
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There was also the mister good body suit too both he and Cedric wore.
how about this, can we just keep the skinsuit for the women's class? 
this is still a stupid arguement which basically comes down to personal taste or your own individual interpretation of what is or is not an acceptable level of regulation. if you think the uci getting involved is a new thing go have a look at road racing regulations (both in terms of clothing, technology, and bike geometry), it will make your head spin.
the arguement that using a skin suit should be allowed becasue it helps to imrove ones time is useless. if everyone uses skin suits the results will be the same as they would if everyone wore moto gear. it's a zero sum gain.
clearly the riders want to use the gear they are paid to wear and the companies do not want to make one-off skin suits for racing, they want photos of their riders wearing the stuff that the rest of us will actually buy. This being the case it is certainly not in the sense of sportsmanship that every once in a while some yahoo shows up at the start line in a skin suit unannounced to the competition. it's sneaky and it is not in the spirit of competition.
and seeing as the skin suit debate is pretty much a non-debate among the riders involved it makes good sense to have some sort of regulation on clothing. it certainly isn't limited to cycling, every sport poses limits and regulations on uniforms and appearance and they often have as much to do with tradition and image as they do with form and function.
if you love the skin suit so much, make a real statement and wear one. as for me, having raced DH since the mid 90's i've worn all sorts of different gear and to be honest the skin suit is not the best choice. they offer far less protection, are not durable, and can be extremenly uncomfortable and restrictive when worn with pads underneath. they are also much hotter than the current crop of ventilated moto gear. For those asking for more regulations on safety, a skin suit is certainly not the answer.
and why do you hang onto the slinsuit as the sole souce of aerodynamic advantage in dh racing. we still have visors, big number plates, and bikes that cut through the winds about as well as an old volvo.
the arguement that using a skin suit should be allowed becasue it helps to imrove ones time is useless. if everyone uses skin suits the results will be the same as they would if everyone wore moto gear. it's a zero sum gain.
clearly the riders want to use the gear they are paid to wear and the companies do not want to make one-off skin suits for racing, they want photos of their riders wearing the stuff that the rest of us will actually buy. This being the case it is certainly not in the sense of sportsmanship that every once in a while some yahoo shows up at the start line in a skin suit unannounced to the competition. it's sneaky and it is not in the spirit of competition.
and seeing as the skin suit debate is pretty much a non-debate among the riders involved it makes good sense to have some sort of regulation on clothing. it certainly isn't limited to cycling, every sport poses limits and regulations on uniforms and appearance and they often have as much to do with tradition and image as they do with form and function.
if you love the skin suit so much, make a real statement and wear one. as for me, having raced DH since the mid 90's i've worn all sorts of different gear and to be honest the skin suit is not the best choice. they offer far less protection, are not durable, and can be extremenly uncomfortable and restrictive when worn with pads underneath. they are also much hotter than the current crop of ventilated moto gear. For those asking for more regulations on safety, a skin suit is certainly not the answer.
and why do you hang onto the slinsuit as the sole souce of aerodynamic advantage in dh racing. we still have visors, big number plates, and bikes that cut through the winds about as well as an old volvo.
I wanna see Bender huck that hundred footer in a skinsuit.
FTR, I'm not arguing for or against skin suits. The topic has no bearing on me and how I ride or race. I can see the reasons for it, but I can also see the reasons against it.
From a racing standpoint, there is an advantage to them (albeit minor). To say that some racers use them out of a lack of respect for their fellow racers is flat out wrong. At the level where speed suits become advantageous, the people involved are racing for a living. They are getting paid to race, but more importantly to try and win. How can you fault one racer for choosing to try and get a competitive advantage by doing something that is allowed within the rules, while another racer chooses not to?
FTR, I'm not arguing for or against skin suits. The topic has no bearing on me and how I ride or race. I can see the reasons for it, but I can also see the reasons against it.
From a racing standpoint, there is an advantage to them (albeit minor). To say that some racers use them out of a lack of respect for their fellow racers is flat out wrong. At the level where speed suits become advantageous, the people involved are racing for a living. They are getting paid to race, but more importantly to try and win. How can you fault one racer for choosing to try and get a competitive advantage by doing something that is allowed within the rules, while another racer chooses not to?
The comparison to ski racing is really bad. First of all the in ski racing there aren't pointy rocks, sharp trees or abrasive ground. Secondly, skin suits are regulated in ski racing. For safety reasons as well as to not lead to a suit arms race. Suits have to meet strict requirements, and can't be too fast. Racing isn't about being fastest to the finish period, it's about doing it within the rules. Some of which are in place to keep the competitors safe and preserve the image of the sport.
For bike racing we're not talking tenths of a second, I'm betting they shave at least 5 seconds of time on an average course. I personally don't want to wear one because I'm a hack, and am sure I will get hurt more racing and practicing in one. In addition, I don't want to show up for a race knowing I'm at a big disadvantage before I even start.
For bike racing we're not talking tenths of a second, I'm betting they shave at least 5 seconds of time on an average course. I personally don't want to wear one because I'm a hack, and am sure I will get hurt more racing and practicing in one. In addition, I don't want to show up for a race knowing I'm at a big disadvantage before I even start.
The General said alot of what I wanted to say, JonKranked, so you won't get a long quoting post back...
I think you´re turning it into if it was ok to race with a skinsuit as a minority in wc-races. As you say, those were the rules.
The discussion (from my point of view anyhow) was if there really is a bad thing with everybody racing motogear, under restrictions.
And no, suspension is not the same thing in this discussion (you´re kidding?). As I said, skinsuit give nothing to the sport, but developing better bikes do. And with regulations on clothes, there really is no point if everybody is wearing it. Riders will only go a little faster. So, if riders want the extra protection motoclothes gives, well that's fine, don´t you think?
Here´s an example for your old physics books:
Blenkinsop, Schladming.
Let´s say he would do 10 sec on his race time with the spandex (!). And that is pretty much. He would change his avarage speed from 19,63 mph to 20,50 mph. Speedsport, nah.
Ok, so now someone will say for the millionth time "it´s a speed sport", "fastest man down wins". Haha...
I just got off the phone with the UCI, I started a Petition to Ban the Sunday and DW link all together, Its an unfair advantage for those who get them, Its not fair that they can Buy a faster time.
Hey Pelo, stop with the body armor comment, you can get a skinsuit that fits over your armor, and even some with padding built right in. Try one someday, then comment about how much of an unfair advantage it is.
The real issue here isnt if it is an unfair advantage, its image, and It just pisses me off that the UCI is calling it something else. If they were just coming straight out and saying it..... We dont want to look GAY, then I would think twice. I swear if DH turns into what happened with Road biking. I am F&cking out
I just left that part out. I´m here, in front of the keyboard, with the armor (custom built in padding) and the skinsuit over it. Just to get perspective on things.
I call post production trickery..... Fontuckey is never windy!
I think one major point is being overlooked here...
Bottom line, downhill racing is a competitive sport. Not a fashion show.
Bottom line, downhill racing is a competitive sport. Not a fashion show.
why not just wear a thong and a full face helmet... I bet cedric would do it!Hey guys, you're all forgetting that seran wrap is mad cheap!! Just don't forget yer tighty whities!!!
or Delta House. And these guys are nowhere close to UCI level....why not just wear a thong and a full face helmet... I bet cedric would do it!
hate to break it to you, but every competitive sport that has achieved mainstream success is, in fact, a fashion show. And guess who decides what's in fashion? That's right, the athletes.
Anyone stop to consider for a moment that if there was to be a ban on skinsuits the impact on the sport of DH racing as we know it would be absolutely zero? No one rides in skinsuits now so nothing at all would change. a ban on skinsuits would be as noticeable and inconvenient as a ban on sniffing a dog's arse in public (or racing with 4" wide tires). If no one does it, and it is disallowed, who cares? don't think you'll find too many WC racers upset because they can no longer wear a piece of clothing they don't own in the first place.
and don't give me that slippery slope nonsense about regulating disc brakes or suspension technology next, it's a cheap way to prolong an argument when you don't actually have anything useful to add.
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Ski racing is pretty big. So is snowboard racing. Hell, even BX racers wear skinsuits much of the time...and TLD helmets with no visors.
looks like I'm gonna continue to lead a one man parade, and not give a rat's ass about what other people think about how I look.
edit: be sure to leave me a voicemail when downhilling hits mainstream success, so I know which costume to to go buy.
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Fraser, you, or whoever brought it up, are killing me with the skiing comparisons. that sport is way more about aerodynamics than DH racing will ever be. Max speed in a DH mt. bike race is slower than the average speed at a dh ski race. Races are decided by .001 of a second and something as simple (well, complex really) as choosing the wrong wax can kill an otherwise mint run. other than the fact that they are individual time trials starting at the top of a mountain and ending at the bottom mtb racing and ski racing don't share much worth comparing.
I'll wear a skin suit next year if you will
the irony of this comment is that you seem to care a great deal about how other people looklooks like I'm gonna continue to lead a one man parade, and not give a rat's ass about what other people think about how I look.
I wonder about your time gap.
Knowing alot about road racing and time trialling, one basic study: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/aero/aerodynamics.htm, lists the average gain on a 40km time trial (where a rider is averaging just 37kph), gains 29 seconds, or .72 seconds per km.
Fort Bill was 2.82km, and a gain of 7 seconds is 2.48 seconds a km. The winner this year averaged 36kph.
I can see how he might gain a second on a long course which is easily a winning margin. I don't see how anyone could gain 5-7 seconds though
people tested with and w/out skin suits at Ft. William, the difference in time was in the 5-8 second range.
your reference to time trialing brings up another good point worth mentioning, especially to all those posting here who base their argument on the fact that DH racing is a time trial event. Time trials on the road, not unlike DH, racing are all about achieving the lowest possible time. unlike DH racing, aerodynamics in road racing are heavily regulated. yes folks, the uci does impose restrictions that prevent the fastest possible time (as do many other sports). get over it.
I vote that everyone has to dress up like Kool-Aid Man.
I like to see that study. Was it formal or informal?
UCI limitations I believe only have to do with the bike itself.
If I was to slap a fairing on a road bike, a top TTer would destroy the competition.
Even simpler would be to cover my spokes with saran wrap. The same exact effect as a disc wheel but adding just grams as opposed to half a kilo.
They did do away with 24 inch wheels that were popular in the 90's.
But skinsuits and aero helmets I believe have not been regulated. I know they constantly tout some magic fabric, but I believe the trick with these items is not aero, but breathable and aero. Obviously for most time trials, you want to be comfortable and cool, as well as fast.
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where do you think I got the idea?Dude, that's so 2005
Not only did GR pull off a backflip on a DH rig, he did it dressed as Kool-Aid man.
So does this make you type faster then?
The only thing that should be banned in dh racing is engines. Hell if you can make it down faster on 3 wheels, 29ers, or a homemade gearbox I say go for it, why should what you wear be any different? At what point do you draw the line? No short sleeved shirts because there is less wind resistance? No sleeveless Robbie Bourdon shirts? No tight upper body armor with no shirt, and a jockstrap? If the UCI goes through with this I think we all just got one step closer to watching races being run by China.
Hell yes. If you can get down the course faster and stay within the borders of the race tape with wings on then you deserve the gold medal and a can of Dinty Moore cause you da man.
actually, we'll be one step closer to watching races that look exactly like the ones we watch now. As for the China comment, give me a break. DH racing is probably the least regulated cycling discipline in existence. And besides, if it was a race run by China everyone else would be in moto gear and the chinese athletes would be in lycra. everyone would know they were breaking the rules but no one would be able to do anything about it. oh yeah, and all the Chinese downhillers would be 16 even though the UCI minimum age is 17
But what gender would China allow you to race as if you had a sex change?As for the China comment, give me a break. DH racing is probably the least regulated cycling discipline in existence. And besides, if it was a race run by China everyone else would be in moto gear and the chinese athletes would be in lycra. everyone would know they were breaking the rules but no one would be able to do anything about it. oh yeah, and all the Chinese downhillers would be 16 even though the UCI minimum age is 17
I just want to know what the hell the guy behind him is up to?!?
master blaster?
the guy behind him is the remote control for the airplane; they were a pair.
F*ck no. 29" wheels are for kooks.
Skinsuit or no, it is downhill MOUNTAIN bike racing. You need gears and 2 x 26" wheels.
You think skinsuits look retarded? Wait until Joe Average flicks TV channels and sees a bunch of dorks racing whatever frankenbike they've made up.
I reckon DH MTB should have the same equipment and gear code as is used in BMX. Wear whatever you want so long as you're adequately protected.
JonKranked, I owe you rep!!!
All you need to know about Chinese downhillers is how they did in the BMX event at the Olympics.actually, we'll be one step closer to watching races that look exactly like the ones we watch now. As for the China comment, give me a break. DH racing is probably the least regulated cycling discipline in existence. And besides, if it was a race run by China everyone else would be in moto gear and the chinese athletes would be in lycra. everyone would know they were breaking the rules but no one would be able to do anything about it. oh yeah, and all the Chinese downhillers would be 16 even though the UCI minimum age is 17
I heard from some local guys that the Chinese Women's team was training in the Bay Area. They had some incredible starts which they blew on the first jump.
have you ever ridden a bike with 29" wheels? or is that your sphincter talking?
Eh? Settle petal.
If there's a benefit to them, then they shouldn't be allowed because they contravene the equipment standard. (ie. you're not allowed to race with electronic suspension or a motor are you?). If there's no benefit, then they won't be used because they're weaker/heavier by comparison.
Rational arguments aside, no I haven't ridden them, no I won't ride them and yes I stand by my statement that they're for kooks.
Screw skin suits, the secret to flat out speed is chemicals! Oh yeah HGH kid!!!