Who says you can't have electronic suspension? They allow electronic shifting
UCI bans skinsuits?
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I bet they don't ban it, Shimano and Campy have too much cash tied up in it. But god forbid we run discs on our cyclocross bikes
Not that I want to get too involved in this debate....but one note: that study is almost assuredly comparing the time saved with a skinsuit vs. a standard road racing setup of lycra shorts and a tight jersey. The time difference between those options is likely to be much less than the time difference between a skinsuit and moto gear. It may also be that the upright riding position on a DH bike means a greater frontal area- wind resistance is then a bigger part of the equation.
In any case, is this really that big of a deal? I don't particularly care one way or the other as it doesn't really change what I do or even what most WC pros do at the vast majority of races.
Fashion show... Haha. That´s quite funny. It´s not like skinsuit-supporters think it´s ugly. Waiting for a medal or something for wearing it?
Chill out.
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Then why do racerboiz get so pissed when jean-clad freehuckers make fun of their matching kits?:huh:
Also, last I checked......most "mainstream" competitive sports use uniforms. What type of fashion show are you talking about? A communist one?
if this is truly an aesthetic issue rather than performance, maybe the uci would consider banning the latest troy lee kits? how is the sport to develop its own image / identity if we're just moto wannabe's? actually any tapered moto pant & moto inspired graphics in general are an affront to (my personal) good taste, and should be banned immediately.
Geeze, bcd and Dave Camp might take offense. Just because there isn't a rule saying you can't do something doesn't mean people will do it. Why do you care what wheel size people run? 26" has been the norm because it works well for the majority of courses, but if you can make it down the hill faster on a 29er then why the hell regulate it. Not enough people compete in our sport to break it down into supersport, superbike, GP, etc, but I think dh should be full on modified do whatever the hell you can to get down faster. The one exception is that the power has to come from your own combustion. Gearboxes, electronic shifting, carbon fiber out the wazoo. Bring it. The notion that "Joe Public" cares what we are doing is laughable. The only percentage smaller than dh'ers is the spectators.
bwahahah.. If China was in charge ugly dh'ers would have their faces superimposed with models chiseled features on the podium and the whole world would collectively think, "wow, that represents the ideal athlete!". I wonder if, "she told me she was 18" flies in China....
actually, we'll be one step closer to watching races that look exactly like the ones we watch now. As for the China comment, give me a break. DH racing is probably the least regulated cycling discipline in existence. And besides, if it was a race run by China everyone else would be in moto gear and the chinese athletes would be in lycra. everyone would know they were breaking the rules but no one would be able to do anything about it. oh yeah, and all the Chinese downhillers would be 16 even though the UCI minimum age is 17
whose standard? i don't feel the need to conform to someone else's sense of aesthetics; style is subjective.
your point being?
my point - i think skinsuits are a non-issue. just another optional bit of gear in the wc racers quiver - to be used at their discretion if they believe it to be advantageous for the course. imo, they hardly detract from the image of the sport (though maybe i'm missing out on how insecure the male population really is; do guys also rant about the 'gheyness' of football players wearing tights?).
this is pure radness regardless of the clothing:
You are so ghey if you think that is a rad photo.
If it was not for people pointing out the skinsuit I would hardly notice.
xy9ine...
Did you watch the world cup on Freecaster? It´s bloody fun.
Haha... someone elses sense of aestethics... Where did you pick that up? From the guy selling hot dogs around the corner? COME ON!
Style is subjective... You're pretty da*n right it is! Does Dolly Parton sleep on her back?
Did you watch the world cup on Freecaster? It´s bloody fun.
Haha... someone elses sense of aestethics... Where did you pick that up? From the guy selling hot dogs around the corner? COME ON!
Style is subjective... You're pretty da*n right it is! Does Dolly Parton sleep on her back?
yup. wicked racing. freecaster is the best thing to happen to dh in a while (assuming they iron out the technical glitches).
again, i could care less what people wear whilst riding bicycles. really has no scope on my passion for the two wheeled contraptions. just interesting how worked up people seem to get over the issue. all in fun.
Do you seriously not understand the real issue here? It'd not about how much faster the skinsuit makes you, its about spending money to gain an advantage that has nothing to do with skill.
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I completely understand it. I've been around the Dh community an awful long time. It has nothing to do with $. It has to do with the fact that it is a speed sport and you should take every advantage you have to push the sport to be faster.
Ski racing, snowboard racing, boardercross, road racing... all wear skinsuits for a reason.
The real reason is a bunch of homophobes are afraid of being seen in lycra.
The biggest point is being overlooked, DH racing isn't formula 1 racing! It's not done by a team of professionals with $500 million budgets who's sole JOB it is is to make the fastest car on the planet. DH racing is done mostly by people who do it as a HOBBY for FUN, and don't get paid to do it.......So stop comparing a small fringe racing sport, who's cost already gets in the way of a lot of people racing, to a other world class, overly funded racing sports. I'd imagine 95% of the people racing DH at WC cups don't wanna have to worry about wearing a skinsuit to have a prayer of winning. Maybe sam or fabian don't care but, they are a small fraction of the people racing. And WC racing doesn't exist only because of the top 10, it exsist because of all the other 150 or whoever who race that weekend
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Sorry, but the best riders on the planet (who would be wearing skinsuits) are paid very well for what they do. Their teams also have high 6 figure and sometimes 7 figure salaries.
riding a track like ft william 5-8 secs faster does require sharper reaction times and skills. at last years worlds Rachel crashed in practice and observed that the reason was because she was going so much faster in her skinsuit.
its not a money issue either, i have several Underarmour tops that i use as a base layer under my body armour and race jersey.. i suppose they could be described as a "skinsuit" and they are cartainly not expensive.
I can see trying to gain every advantage as possible but all the other down hill speed sports that use skin suits like down hill skiing, boardercross, and even road racing to meseem to be in more of a wide open atmosphere where wind and resistance could play more of a factor. And, just asking here but are those other sports dealing with a fairly faster avg. speed? I mean, yes there are a lot of times when you're wide open ripping full bore but there are also a lot of times when you're slow and tech. I just feel the skin suit doesn't play enough of a factor or you probably would have more dudes in tights. The slight, slight advantage it might have isn't enough to out way the cool factor of wearing a tighter fitting pair of race pants and jersey. And why not be the only gravity sport not willing to travel into the funny zone of race attire? At least most riders are wearing tighter gear and not going full free rider baggy.
keep the suits on the snow and pavement.
But who knows, 10 yrs from now even beginner and sport riders will be showing up at the local race with florescent green suits. 12 green suits huddled around the camp fire Saturday evening drinking a beer remembering there lines of the day just waiting to get out there Sunday and taking on the hill one more time for race day. Hell yeah green suits.
keep the suits on the snow and pavement.
But who knows, 10 yrs from now even beginner and sport riders will be showing up at the local race with florescent green suits. 12 green suits huddled around the camp fire Saturday evening drinking a beer remembering there lines of the day just waiting to get out there Sunday and taking on the hill one more time for race day. Hell yeah green suits.
Have you ever raced at Ft William, Ste Anne, Livigno? Trust me, those suits make a huge difference at those places.
I haven't been or raced at any of those locations. I don't know, if you were to research results i would think the suits where not always the fastest of the day all the time. You're right though, the suits could make a difference but if it does, when are the pro's gonna drop the hammer and just say look fellas, if you're not in a suit, you're not riding hard enough. I want to see commercials and magazine adds endorsing the suit.
serious question now. Do the top guys ever do any extensive testing in those things. Like say riding a timed run on a certain track geared up in the usual attire like the race pant and jersey and then, immediately after, gear down and slip into the suit and go up and do it again? Just some comparative research.
You don't need to do the research. The advantages of wearing tight clothing over something loose and flopping has been known for a long time.
I'm still not convinced with the trail layouts, speed and the time spent at top speed, on dh tracks the suit would be an advantage.
In '06 I raced in Ft. Bill and changed from regular "baggy" downhill clothes into my skinsuit between two practice runs.
Anyone that has been there knows it is usually pretty windy up top, (at this particular occasion the weather was pure evil) and I noticed that my braking points changed a lot after jumping into the lycra.
I have no timing from those runs to compare, but the fact that I almost got spat out of the corners up top and had to pedal a lot less in between to achieve the same kind of speed makes me quite confident that a skinsuit helps.
It is of course optional, but I feel a lot of the people posting in this thread should try one on if they are serious about their racing. And perhaps leave those who choose to run them alone.
Weekend warriors should not be bothered by something that quite obviously does not address them.
Anyone that has been there knows it is usually pretty windy up top, (at this particular occasion the weather was pure evil) and I noticed that my braking points changed a lot after jumping into the lycra.
I have no timing from those runs to compare, but the fact that I almost got spat out of the corners up top and had to pedal a lot less in between to achieve the same kind of speed makes me quite confident that a skinsuit helps.
It is of course optional, but I feel a lot of the people posting in this thread should try one on if they are serious about their racing. And perhaps leave those who choose to run them alone.
Weekend warriors should not be bothered by something that quite obviously does not address them.
Then you my son need to start looking up information on aerodynamics.
The resistance of fluidscertainly in the case of the windgoes up with the square of the velocity, and the faster one goes the more air resistance one encounters. Thus a 10% increase in speed requires a 33% increase in power, and a 25% increase in speed requires almost a doubling of power.
So, suppose you want to go 25% faster? You need to put out almost double the power! Well, at slower speeds, not quite. Because part of your original power was used to overcome the force of friction, and that part of your power needs only to increase 25%.
At 12 miles per hour, about half of your total power is used in overcoming friction, and about one-half air resistance. To go 25% faster you need to increase your power by about 61%.
At 20 mph, four-fifths of your total power is already spent overcoming air resistance. To go 25% faster, you need to increase your total power by 83%.
While in DH's case most of the power is being provided my gravity, the rules are still the same.
Yes, they have. Skinsuits at Ft William are worth about 6-8 seconds depending what team you talk to.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you spend $7500 on a DH bike, that's an advantage over a $1500 DH bike. A XTR drivetrain will outperform Alivio for a few hundred $$ more. If you race road or XC, spending $200 on good clipless pedals will make you faster than if you get $20 toe clips. Shaving grams, cutting tires, getting tire pressure right, and tuning a drivetrain are all things that have nothing to do with skill but give you advantages.
Face it: Every sport which involves racing against the clock uses skinsuits. Your argument is irrelevant because I could list off the improvements that you can make to your bike and equipment that give you advantages for days. It's an image issue, and the pic of Sam Hill shows that to be irrelevant as well. If you're afraid of being gay don't wear one. And if you're not among the top racers in the world you're never going to wear one.
The main difference between Formula 1 and Dh is that money can't buy you a win in DH. You could have the lightest, sweetest, most decked out bike in the history of the world, but the the RIDER in the saddle isn't skilled and in top physical condition, it doesn't matter. I've got $5 that says if you put Hill, Peat, or Minaar on a clapped out Schwinn Straight8 from the last century they'd still wind up in the top 10, probably even top 5. Formula 1 you put a good driver in a bad car they'd be lucky to be in the top 50% of the field. Yes I understand that Formula 1 Driving takes a high degree of skill and years of practice, but that doesn't change the fact that there is much more emphasis placed on the vehicle than the person piloting it.
No, and no. Yes, an XTR drivetrain will out perform an Alivio drivetrain but not by leaps and bounds. If properly setup performance differences won't be night and day, but what you're really paying for is lighter parts. That's all.
That's exactly my point.....
Transcend, I absolutely believe this time advantage to be true. One thing I'll add to this: it appears to me that a very large component of this time advantage is likely due to the resolution of the headwinds the riders face. As Zutroy graciously pointed out, the resistance due to wind is a function of the of the velocity squared. Just remember that "velocity" as it relates to aerodynamic resistance is based on the sum of the rider velocity, V, plus headwind, Vh, i.e. (V+Vh) squared. In the video's of Ft Bill (I've never been there!) that I've seen, there are some substantial headwinds riders are facing. A rider going 20mph facing a 20mph headwind is effectively going 40mph as far as the wind resistance is concerned. This means that the combined resistance is four times greater than that of a rider in no head wind. A 40mph headwind yields NINE time the wind resistance due to rider speed alone! This is where I suspect the major component of the advantage is held. Again, I'm certainly not disagreeing that science shows a marked advantage, just pointing out an observation of Ft. Bill.
edit: I also realize that riders are not directly facing the headwinds at all times, and I'm not even going to get into that component here... nevertheless, it appears to me (again, a casual observer, never been there) that headwind appears to be a very large part at Ft. Bill.
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The F1 argument is a little off anyway. FIA is constantly making rules changes to save money. The big teams have what they have and they just spend it elsewhere. You tell them no beryllium in their engine, they just go and buy bigger windtunnels. A skinsuit isn't going to break the budget for anyone racing on the World Cup. Also, the last thing we need is for the UCI to be more like the FIA. How would y'all like it if they decided to ban all tires except Maxxis and then allocated 2 sets of Minions and 2 sets of High Rollers for the weekend. If it rains, they might let you have some Swampthings.
I think you mean Wet Screams, not swamp things. Honestly, if they did implement this rule, it would only affect a handful of teams anyways. On paper at least. Gotta love sharpies.*
*Disclaimer - this whole comment is just for S&G's.
So what your saying is, that if I wore a skinsuit, I would hav beaten the guys who were ahead of me? Even though they proved that there fitness elvel and skill level were obviously higher than mine. Damn I sure wish I could buy my way into a podium finish.....Oh wait thats right, I buy it with hard work, practice, workingout, PEDALLING Etc.
I seriously cannot belive this thread is still going, for gods sake, Seriously think for a minute. Whats going to hapopen if we start limiting performance items in DH. First off we start with Disc brakes not being allowed in cross racing....Unfair advantage, but wait, everyone riding has the opportunity to use it<Bull **** rule> Ban skinsuits, Unfair advantage<Bull**** rule, again EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO IT>, next on the list, Ban 9 in rotors from DH, Unfair advantage<Im fat a larger rotor has an obvious advantage for me> Since we are going down the list of things to be banned, Lets ban Hardtails, Unfair effeciency on pedally coarse, lets also ban anything with more than 8.2 inches of travel, lets ban anyting that isnt considered a single pivot, Hell I ride a Dirtbad<I dont consider it a single pivot, but thats another arguement for another day>, and I race someone who is on a Socom, and another who is on a Jedi, Hell I even race one on a Turner, and another on a Bighit, so lets ban anything that gives a pedalling advantage, or a tracking advantage, or anything that gives a cornering advantage. Hell while we are at it, lets ban any shock modifications, lets ban anythi9ng that isnt a shock in a box, thats an unfair advantage, because someone could sepnd an extra 2 bills and have there rear shock custom built to there bike, size, and riding style. I bet Push would love that.
Almost forgot, we have to ban clipless pedals too!!!! thats an unfait advantage to someone who doesnt haev the skill needed to use them properly
All these things are bought with more money, If I go buy a SUnday, get it setup just like Sam Hill, does that gaurantee me a win, F*CK no it doesnt, I still need the skill to use what I have. Banning skinsuits is all about a F*cking fashin statement, being made by a bunch of homophobes who are afraid they might like someone else Man bulge, or get jealous.
Seriously the only rules I would like to see, is a gear requirement, IE, Elbow pads, need pads, chest protector, neck brace, FF helmets, gloves, eye protection, I dont care which of these you have, just have something.
Get over it kids, Spandex isnt leaving anytime soon. And who cares if I or anyone else wants to wear a skinsuit, underpads, over the pads, WHO cares, unless your scared its going to automatically make me faster because I spent a Bill on a suit. ****, really guys I would be way more worried about somoene who sepnt 2K more on a different bike than the guy who spent a Bill on a suit to go faster, at least I can get teh same suit myself, thats something that is in my price range.
Seriously, for those worried about this crap, Step away from the keyboard, and go for a damned ride.
Finger's almost healed, I'll be riding soon
