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UCI / Discovery channel

aaronjb

Turbo Monkey
Jul 22, 2010
1,105
659
Never followed US racing. What was stupid about it?
UK Nationals have two race runs. Fastest time of the two to count
That makes for, perhaps, more fair racing (accounting for mechanicals and so on), but it makes for very poor spectating and would be terrible to watch on a broadcast.

The dual-run format was from the days of 5-9 minute courses, where flats were a given and frames and wheels were tearing apart on the regular.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,535
5,470
UK
but it makes for very poor spectating
It actually makes for better spectating at National level as racers, friends and family all get two chances to watch the elites (or their friend/family member's race run).
you don't really get many spectators at UK nationals who aren't at least friends with someone racing.
On a WC level. Yeah. it would be a shit show with hours of waiting time like Rampage

9 minute courses
WOW!
9 minutes? with the exception of Ft william and a couple of others most UK (Nat) DH tracks are generally somewhere around 3min in length.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
Local races in Orgeon were also two runs on long courses in the early 2000s. I quite enjoyed this format as you got more out of your weekend of racing and a mechanical did not mean no result (besides that dude that broke his frame at one race).
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,881
2,132
not in Whistler anymore :/
Then do the calculations instead of going "how about this and that". As for Africa - erm dude. The main customer for it is in developed countries because of the price. Sure you will get customers from africa but you are making the common startup mistake of going "our total potential customerbase is 7 billion".

So please. Numbers. If I'm wrong tell me. Since for now the total satelite internet market is valued at 3.4 bilion and it is forecasted to go to 6.4bil in 2026. Starlink Ceo said and I kid you not their potential revenue is 1 TRILLION.

Also please see the video I attached. Using Dragon 9 the cost of getting ONE starlink satelite is 250-500k. So if they are planning to go with 42000k satelites it's a cost of 38-64 bilion dollars. Satelites have a 5 year life. So every 5 years you have to spend 38-64 bilion USD. Ok the prices go down. So lets say 20 bilion every 5 years. That's just the satelite costs. 4 bilion per year in cost at full scale. How is it doable without huge subsidies?

 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,188
19,155
Canaderp
Will the Gondola at MSA even be there next year? I guess if not, the racers can ride the slow lift like the rest of us plebs, though its not in the most ideal spot...

The whole place, except for two runs accessed via magic carpet, is still closed after one of the gondola cabins fell off and to the ground recently..




 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,375
803
Bold moves to do MSA and Snowshoe that late. Should be very pleasant weather :rolleyes:
Early October weather is often very nice at MSA.

I'd even say hosting a World Cup at Fort William is probably more risky, weather-wise, any time of the year. :) ...or that Lourdes World Cup that was in March or April a few years ago. That was pretty bad if I recall correctly.

Like canadmos wrote, it appears unlikely the current MSA gondola will be functional in 2023, or ever again for that matter. We'll see how that situation develops, but it is not looking very good at the moment.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Never followed US racing. What was stupid about it?
UK Nationals have two race runs. Fastest time of the two to count
UCI has no issue with the 2 run thing? Since that's a very good idea even if a problem when you get too many riders.
 

Fool

The Thing cannot be described
Sep 10, 2001
2,759
1,470
Brooklyn
Worth it to listen to the Downtime podcast with Neko and Chris Kilmurray, and the Making Up the Numbers podcast with Richie. Sounds like too many changes, too fast, after hearing there would not be much change in the first year. Why not a test events to try these new formats out? It's really going to change riders' approaches to training and racing, after having the same format for so long. Used to be a build to a flyer race run, now you have to do it twice in a row.

Also, I'm all for all the coverage, but now we're looking at 7+ hours of event time, how is Discovery going to package that? The EWS recap model that works so well?
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Worth it to listen to the Downtime podcast with Neko and Chris Kilmurray, and the Making Up the Numbers podcast with Richie. Sounds like too many changes, too fast, after hearing there would not be much change in the first year. Why not a test events to try these new formats out? It's really going to change riders' approaches to training and racing, after having the same format for so long. Used to be a build to a flyer race run, now you have to do it twice in a row.

Also, I'm all for all the coverage, but now we're looking at 7+ hours of event time, how is Discovery going to package that? The EWS recap model that works so well?
If it's on demand and not linear TV then it's not an issue. What makes me wonder more is Disco wants such a long even since longer event = most costs.
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,287
854
coloRADo
Yeah, good point. Sometimes watching the Redbull WC DH races I'm like "can we just get it over with?!"

But that's mainly because it's one line. And no one does anything different, so it gets a bit repetitive. And dare I say it. Boring. Save for the fact that maybe you want to watch your favorite riders. And you hang in there for that.

So what's the point of watching the same 20 riders do the same course twice?

If I were racing I guess I'd be all for it. More bike time is moar fun.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,535
5,470
UK
UCI has no issue with the 2 run thing? Since that's a very good idea even if a problem when you get too many riders.
Nah. No issue.
BDS & SDA Nationals (UK and Scottish) used to carry UCI E2 status (UCI points for WC entry up for grabs) and a UCI Commissare used to be a requirement. The Commissares often had issues with all sorts of perfectly fine stuff but not the 2 race run format. Occasionally 2nd runs were scrapped due to weather or red flags meaning first run really could matter more. Just heard WCs are going to be using the new Semi final in that way too.
We've since dropped E2 as it was a ton of money wasted meaning higher prices for the guys who actually pay for their entrys.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
With decreasingly LESS racers per round (Semi/final). will it be hugely longer?
Hugely? Not really but it seems weird they want any sort of extra costs given their parent company is writing off literally everything. I won't complain for more content but it strikes me as odd for a company that's downsizing.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,535
5,470
UK
Where would extra costs come from?
Naively I'd have assumed cameras and crew would still be at the event for the same amount of time?
Moar broadcasting fees?
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Where would extra costs come from?
Naively I'd have assumed cameras and crew would still be at the event for the same amount of time?
Moar broadcasting fees?
Maybe the issue isn't how much we are seing but the way I'm reading the update so I may be wrong but the way I understand it is we get. This is just for men for simplicity.

30 Final Runs shown in their entirety + some footage from the 60 men semis. So they still need to FILM 90 runs, there is probably some sort of break in between them.

Filming 60 runs vs 90 runs + a break is over 1.5x the time commitment for the camera people. More hours = more pay? Same for more footage for editors, more bandwidth.

Granted I may be reading it more but it seems there is more raw footage here even if the end broadcast may not be longer (though it probably will be if we interpret "entirety" literally).
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,535
5,470
UK
Excuse my naivety but surely camera "people" get paid for the day rather than per minute of filming?
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Excuse my naivety but surely camera "people" get paid for the day rather than per minute of filming?

Tbh no idea, depends on the country probably. Hourly? 90 runs probably gets into overtime so extra pay. It would be weird if broadcasting an event that lasts 1.5-2x the time cost the same.

Also what really interests me how they define showing runs in their entirety. Cameras for 100% of the track? Or just not shortened?

We are really doing typical RM armchair predictions based on very little details so it's really hard to judge.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,535
5,470
UK
So an agreed working day based on hours worked and time spent at the workplace? Probably including traveling and time away from home taken into account.
I honestly don't see the Camera crew's working day's start and finish time changing all that much if at all.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,375
803
nice for karen to drink a pumpkin spice latte or nice for a DH race?
Nice for a DH race. The normal temperature is between 10C to 15C that time of the year, the colors are great and the normal trail conditions are tacky.

A cold mud fest is for sure a possibility (not gonna lie), but sun, warmth and perfect hero dirt is totally possible as well. The lift generally closes around early-mid october and it pretty much always sucks because that means we loose about 2 weeks of prime-conditions riding. November would be quite a gamble, but the odds of having great race conditions in early october are really high IMO.
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,881
2,132
not in Whistler anymore :/
Yeah, good point. Sometimes watching the Redbull WC DH races I'm like "can we just get it over with?!"

But that's mainly because it's one line. And no one does anything different, so it gets a bit repetitive. And dare I say it. Boring. Save for the fact that maybe you want to watch your favorite riders. And you hang in there for that.

So what's the point of watching the same 20 riders do the same course twice?

If I were racing I guess I'd be all for it. More bike time is moar fun.
the only boring bits were the filler ones before they went live again
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
military gigs are always profitable. there’s your usecase.
I expected some more nuance and data. Though sure. If he keeps getting all of his money from the govt then his company may work. Not what we are arguing about as we were talking b2c. But lets not drag this off topic.