[Secret Squirrel]

Is that a normal Thursday occurrence?

You might want to start having lunch meetings at places where people get up and introduce themselves by first name

Well....not usually....

Naw, that was just a little jab to say that I was 99% certain that what I was about to say was true.


And I'm totally with Blue on this....Aisle 3 plz!!! We're gonna need a price check on this personal lubricant...

 

[ohio]

If students in this country still had any heart, those cops never would have made it out of the library alive.

****in apathy.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

kid should have left
cops shouldnt have tazered him


nobody wins.

 

[ohio]

kid should have left
cops shouldnt have tazered him


nobody wins.

because he didn't have his ID? Give me a ****ing break. I would have raised holy hell in college too if some rent-a-cop had tried to kick me out of my university library b/c I didnt have my college ID. I would have left but not without giving them a hell of a time and making a total pain in the ass of myself.

I once got busted shagging a girl in the handicapped shower (only private shower in the building... plus it had grab handles). I didn't have my ID on me at the time. The rent-a-cops thought it would be fun to embarass the two of us and drag us out by threatening to break down the (locked) door. You bet your ass I gave them a ****ing hard time and screamed bloody murder and abuse of power. Should I have been tazered?

There are real threats on a campus, like sexual assault and alcohol poisoning and dirty old men stealing girls' knickers. Someone using the library isnt exactly a major threat. Hang those cops. Hang 'em high. Make an example of them. Take this country back from fear and authority.

 

[Changleen]

F*ck yeah.

 

[stevew]

alcohol poisoning

Alcohol poisoning is a threat?

Why, because it weeds out fraternity pledges?

 

[kidwoo]

You bet your ass I gave them a ****ing hard time and screamed bloody murder and abuse of power

Hee hee........while nekkid.


I kept thinking of the heavy books I'd be throwing at their heads. First one or two starts a trend.

 

[JRogers]

If someone had decided to lay down the law on those cops, they would have gotten zapped quick and then nobody would do anything. I'd like to think that you could get a bunch of kids to take charge and stick it to the man, but I doubt that would ever happen or that I would actually do anything differently.

 

[Silver]

because he didn't have his ID? Give me a ****ing break.

Something like this sure makes compulsory ID cards sound good, doesn't it?

"Show me your ID!"

"Uh, sorry officer, I forgot it in my car. Let me go get i....AHHHHHH!"

edit: Cell phone video cameras may just be the thing that helps to stop crap like this. It's going to be hard for the cops to get on the witness stand and say that he was resisting...it's also going to be hard for that one asshat to claim that he was physically threatened by the guy asking for his badge number.

Btw...paging manimal...I'd love to have him view the clip and give us his opinion.

 

[bjanga]

Westy, dudes with tasers were the University Police Department, the dude you see standing at the edge of the body of students on the right side of the frame in the beginning of the video is a Community Service Officer.

The way I understand it (and the way that stuff like this usually works) is that the CSO asked Mostafa for his ID. Mostafa didn't leave immediately, CSO radioed UPD, UPD arrives. Mostafa gets the idea and starts walking out . . . cue video.

The telling thing is that Mostafa appears to have been confronted at the entry to the computer lab. From the sound of things and the way the video begins, looks like Mostafa was on his way out. gg.

blau, im actually glad to see that none of the students went past verbal confrontation with the officers . . . "we must be the change that we wish to see in the world" and all that.

 

[sanjuro]

I watched this for the 5th time today, but at home alone, where I can clearly hear what they are saying, and see better what is happening.

There are at least 3 policemen holding a handcuffed suspect, and they need to taser him? And they continue to taser him because he won't stand up after being shocked?

I think what will happen is next time, people won't passively stand by when something like this happens, and you will see a riot.

 

[bjanga]

riot

I am curious to see what goes down on campus tomorrow. People have had all day to sit down and watch that video.

 

[binary visions]

I'm f**king disgusted by this video... and by a lot of people's reaction. "Oh, well he should have had his ID." "Oh, well he should have respected the cop."

Nothing short of a direct threat against the officer - or an attempt to sprint out of there - should have resulted in using a tazer, let alone several times. And I can't believe that many kids just stood there and watched them do that to him. Send tens of thousands of volts through someone and then inform them that if they don't get up, you'll do it again? With any luck the guy will be plowed over by a bus full of students next time he crosses the road.

Disgusting, and I hope next time one of those cops tries that, they get the tazer taken away from them and applied to their nutsack for the better part of ten minutes. I will be interested to see what, if any disciplinary action is taken against the cops.

 

[Echo]

problem is 'cops' don't understand tasers and the affects.

why didn't the students jump the security?

Actually I'm pretty sure in NY any cop who uses a tazer has to get hit with one before they are certified, and any cop who uses pepperspray gets hit with that before they can carry it.

 

[Echo]

I'm f**king disgusted by this video... and by a lot of people's reaction. "Oh, well he should have had his ID." "Oh, well he should have respected the cop."

Nothing short of a direct threat against the officer - or an attempt to sprint out of there - should have resulted in using a tazer, let alone several times. And I can't believe that many kids just stood there and watched them do that to him. Send tens of thousands of volts through someone and then inform them that if they don't get up, you'll do it again? With any luck the guy will be plowed over by a bus full of students next time he crosses the road.

Disgusting, and I hope next time one of those cops tries that, they get the tazer taken away from them and applied to their nutsack for the better part of ten minutes. I will be interested to see what, if any disciplinary action is taken against the cops.

Just remember that 1) you didn't see the whole incident, and 2) you have 2 cops there with one complete asshole who won't cooperate, and about 60 hippie kids who are on the verge of starting a riot. The only thing that kept those kids from running up and jumping in the cops faces and starting crap was the prospect of getting tazed.

 

[Strakar]

I'm f**king disgusted by this video... and by a lot of people's reaction. "Oh, well he should have had his ID." "Oh, well he should have respected the cop."

Nothing short of a direct threat against the officer - or an attempt to sprint out of there - should have resulted in using a tazer, let alone several times. And I can't believe that many kids just stood there and watched them do that to him. Send tens of thousands of volts through someone and then inform them that if they don't get up, you'll do it again? With any luck the guy will be plowed over by a bus full of students next time he crosses the road.

Disgusting, and I hope next time one of those cops tries that, they get the tazer taken away from them and applied to their nutsack for the better part of ten minutes. I will be interested to see what, if any disciplinary action is taken against the cops.

I don't have any "grudge" against the police, and still as I watched this all I could think was "why is everyone just standing there?". "Why don't they just beat the living crap out of the guys doing it?". At points I just felt that "ok this is it, they're going in, they cannot stand watching and let this continue anymore"... but no.

Yeah yeah yeah asking for their badge numbers is the correct "social" attitude, but I can't imagine myself watching this and standing perfectly still. Even worse if they are rent-a-cops.

I think that this behaviour is just totally unnatural. The law only means something as long as it exists to serve the people, not the other way around.

 

[RenegadeRick]

I think what will happen is next time, people won't passively stand by when something like this happens, and you will see a riot.

I doubt it. Americans are quite soft these days. Frankly, I am surprised anyone confronted the officers at all.

The only thing unusual about this incident is the fact that it was captured on video. Tasers are all the rage in Florida. They have been using them like crazy on people chained to hospital beds, pregnant women, people who don't check out of hotel rooms on time, 24 students and more. Some die.

Here is a video with an officer's commentary on how it was right to taser someone for not getting out of a vehicle, and right to shock them a second time for not putting their hands behind their back after they were one the ground. I so disagree. After being tasered, you may not have sufficent muscle control to comply. Once a suspect is on the ground, they are a threat to no one. Just like Mostafa was a threat to no one on the ground, but was shocked repeatedly for not getting up WHEN HE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO.

Here are some choicer quotes from the "pregant woman" article linked previously.

While a growing number of human rights watchers and scientists have voiced concerns about effects on pregnant women, children, elderly people and people with heart, neurological and psychiatric disorders, the review showed that police from Boca Raton to Fort Pierce have fired the weapons at:

• Six people 65 or older, including an 86-year-old man; and at least 35 people 16 and younger, including a 100-pound, 14-year-old boy and a 13-year-old girl;

• 87 women of childbearing age, including at least three women who, after being shocked, said they were pregnant;

• At least 57 people who were high on drugs;

• At least 272 people who were shocked multiple times, including 67 shocked three times, 31 shocked four or more times and one man shocked nine times.

Some of these Taser firings ended violent confrontations in which immediate harm was possible, including encounters with armed and physically threatening suspects.

But in at least 237 incidents, the dart-firing stun gun was used only to get compliance from passively resisting or fleeing suspects.

Mostafa was hit repeatedly in drive stun mode, something even the manufacturer advises caution with.

Even the company that makes the stun gun, Taser International, urges caution about use of the weapon in the "drive-stun" mode and with repeated shocks — uses that The Post survey found have been frequent on the streets of Palm Beach County and the Treasure Coast.

When the two barbed prongs that Tasers shoot are ensnared in skin or clothing, they transmit 50,000 volts of current that override the nervous system and temporarily paralyze muscles. The greater the distance between the prongs, the more incapacitating the effect. Another five-second jolt can be administered by pulling the trigger again as long as the suspect hasn't ripped out one of the prongs.

Officers also can remove the prong cartridge and discharge the weapon directly against a person's body in the "drive-stun" mode to subdue combative arrestees with a searing jolt of pain.

The Taser training manual advises that because it is not incapacitating, this mode can lead to "prolonged struggles" and that "it is in these types of scenarios that officers are often facing accusations of excessive force."

The technique also requires some care, according to Taser International, but the company's guidelines contain conflicting recommendations. The manual points out that the neck and groin "have proven highly sensitive to injury, such as crushing to the trachea or testicles if applied forcefully." The manual continues, "However, these areas have proven highly effective targets."

A recent amendment to the DeLand Police Department's Taser policy is clearer, saying that the "drive-stun" mode can be used only under exceptional circumstances. Local policies don't address the use of the "drive-stun" mode in writing, although narratives in some of the reports examined by The Post acknowledge that this use is discouraged.

Still, the weapon was used in the drive-stun mode in encounters described in at least 209 of the 1,017 reports.

And for the idea that the police have been through tasing, I am not sure that is still happening:

In the same month, forensic engineer James Ruggieri warned police departments that Taser shocks could damage the heart and cause delayed cardiac arrest. He advised that officers not be submitted to shocks during training.

It seems that officers might enjoy tasing each other, kind of like a fraternity hazing ritual. But this may be dangerous. Theoretically, when officers are first in training they are strong and healthy and in good shape. Taser incidents often involve people of questionable health and they may have questionable chemicals in their bodies.

I just don't know what else to say.

 

[RenegadeRick]

Actually I'm pretty sure in NY any cop who uses a tazer has to get hit with one before they are certified, and any cop who uses pepperspray gets hit with that before they can carry it.

That is just stupid. It is like saying we should shoot people who are going to carry guns so they know what they can do. Note in my prior post, they are advising against this practice.

 

[RenegadeRick]

Just remember that 1) you didn't see the whole incident, and 2) you have 2 cops there with one complete asshole who won't cooperate, and about 60 hippie kids who are on the verge of starting a riot. The only thing that kept those kids from running up and jumping in the cops faces and starting crap was the prospect of getting tazed.

Echo, this incident started while he was leaving. In simpler terms, he was cooperating. And those kids are unlikely to have started a riot. It is certainly inappropriate for the officers to have threatened those other students who were there doing nothing wrong.

I suppose I deserve to be tasered for having a difference of opinion with a mod

 

[binary visions]

Just remember that 1) you didn't see the whole incident

I know that, but first of all we have a video and sound clips, and secondly, if they guy had actually made agressive or threatening movements, the cops would have been all over that in the press statement. I don't buy that this was anything other than a couple of douchebags who don't really understand the weapon they're wielding.

You really think it's appropriate to shock someone with a disabling taser, and then shock him again when he doesn't leap to his feet after being asked? You've got three people standing over you, one who has a weapon generating probably 50,000 volts, you've just had your whole body convulse an drop to the floor - hang on while I just leap to my feet in accordance with Mr. Dipsh*t's request. The tasers are often adjustable but given the involuntary scream of pain, I don't think it was set on "mild tickle."

2) you have 2 cops there with one complete asshole who won't cooperate, and about 60 hippie kids who are on the verge of starting a riot. The only thing that kept those kids from running up and jumping in the cops faces and starting crap was the prospect of getting tazed.

Ohhh... So we should keep shocking the kid we have rolling on the floor as a demonstration to keep the other kids back.

I know that's not what you meant, but I didn't make any statement about yelling at the kids to get back. I understand they were in duress and did what they felt like they needed to do to control the situation, but what they did to the student was totally unacceptable.

 

[valve bouncer]

I thought the idea behind the taser was that it was to be used in situations where previously a cop might have used their gun i.e where the perp needs to be incapacitated as lives are in danger. Seems though that a lot of cops use them for crowd control. This thread really need Manimal to chime in and tells under what grounds tasers can be used.

 

[Echo]

I understand they were in duress and did what they felt like they needed to do to control the situation, but what they did to the student was totally unacceptable.

I disagree. While it's questionable that they continued to taze the poor bastard over and over when all he was doing was lying on the ground, the fact is that the whole situation could have EASILY been avoided if the jackass had just done what he was told right from the start.

You people are acting like the rentacops went in there looking for an excuse to taze someone. Obviously that's not the case.

The fact that at the VERY START of the situation, the jackwad is screaming "here's your patriot act! here's your abuse of power! here's your abu ghraib!" says it all. He was asking for it and he got it. If he had left quietly nothing would have happened.

 

[sshappy]

I disagree. While it's questionable that they continued to taze the poor bastard over and over when all he was doing was lying on the ground, the fact is that the whole situation could have EASILY been avoided if the jackass had just done what he was told right from the start.

You people are acting like the rentacops went in there looking for an excuse to taze someone. Obviously that's not the case.

The fact that at the VERY START of the situation, the jackwad is screaming "here's your patriot act! here's your abuse of power! here's your abu ghraib!" says it all. He was asking for it and he got it. If he had left quietly nothing would have happened.

He only yelled that after he'd been 'tazed' (is that a real word?).

If just being a jackass is good reason to be tazed we had better all get ready to be zapped.

 

[binary visions]

So, if he was asking for it, why didn't they just shoot him in the foot? Same result, wouldn't have killed him. Bam, one shot, he would have been down - they wouldn't even have had to do it multiple times.

Easy.

The "jackwad" didn't start screaming about the patriot act and such until after they had hit him with fifty thousand volts that he didn't deserve and he was rolling on the floor in pain . I wouldn't have wandered quietly out of my own campus library just because I didn't have my ID on me when I needed to be in there. I would have protested that I was a student there and I needed to be there, and they could look me up if they wanted to.

 

[Echo]

Well I can't watch the video again because I'm at work. But from what I remember, he was screaming "get your hands off me! see this? see the oppression inherent in the system?! help help I'm being oppressed!" long before he got zapped.

 

[Westy]

Well I can't watch the video again because I'm at work. But from what I remember, he was screaming "get your hands off me! see this? see the oppression inherent in the system?! help help I'm being oppressed!" long before he got zapped.

If all he was doing was yelling should he have been physically restrained? Normally I wouldn't consider yelling to require such a reaction.

 

[valve bouncer]

If all he was doing was yelling should he have been physically restrained? Normally I wouldn't consider yelling to require such a reaction.

Well, he was in the library.

 

[Echo]

If all he was doing was yelling should he have been physically restrained? Normally I wouldn't consider yelling to require such a reaction.

Well it was a library

 

[Westy]

Now if the cops had warned him to use his "inside voice" I could see it all being justified.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

i wish i had a dime for every time someone got tazed in my school's library.


it's seriously starting to interfere with my schoolwork.

 

[Echo]

Man I thought I was one of the biggest hippie bleeding heart liberals around but apparently not.

Go to a library and make enough of a scene that they have to call the cops, then refuse to cooperate with the cops when they arrive, and see what happens.

By the time you're enough of an asshole to convince someone to call the cops, you're already asking for a beatdown IMO.

 

[Westy]

Man I thought I was one of the biggest hippie bleeding heart liberals around but apparently not.

Go to a library and make enough of a scene that they have to call the cops, then refuse to cooperate with the cops when they arrive, and see what happens.

By the time you're enough of an asshole to convince someone to call the cops, you're already asking for a beatdown IMO.

But in this situation he was approached for a "random" ID check. No prior disturbance.

 

[binary visions]

Well I can't watch the video again because I'm at work. But from what I remember, he was screaming "get your hands off me! see this? see the oppression inherent in the system?! help help I'm being oppressed!" long before he got zapped.

He said "don't touch me" which I don't think is an unreasonable request considering they were simply asking him to leave the library because he didn't have his student ID on him.

Even so, do you think yelling about civil rights is justifiable cause to shock him with a taser? Then shock him again when he wouldn't get right back up? And again after they had restrained him?

Nobody called the cops. They were there doing random ID checks because they only allow students in the library after 11:00. That's it. No scene.

 

[RenegadeRick]

I disagree. While it's questionable that they continued to taze the poor bastard over and over when all he was doing was lying on the ground, the fact is that the whole situation could have EASILY been avoided if the jackass had just done what he was told right from the start.

We should always do exactly what the nice officers say right?

What about this case,

pleading guilty to two criminal counts of official misconduct stemming from a July encounter in which he asked two young women to lift their skirts for him to avoid going to jail.

or this one?

Cop gets probation for "violating oath" after allegedly forcing burglary victim into oral sex

 

[sanjuro]

There are two issues with case:

1. Was Mostafa Tabatabainejad asking for it?

2. Was tasering him repeated unnecessary?

I think the answers to both is yes.

Mostafa sounds like a cop's nightmare: a fairly smart yet totally disobedient citizen. He could have just packed up and left (or carried his id).

And after 500 years of the handcuff, when has the taser been required to force prisoners to move?

 

[sshappy]

There are two issues with case:

1. Was Mostafa Tabatabainejad asking for it?

2. Was tasering him repeated unnecessary?

I think the answers to both is yes.

Mostafa sounds like a cop's nightmare: a fairly smart yet totally disobedient citizen. He could have just packed up and left (or carried his id).

And after 500 years of the handcuff, when has the taser been required to force prisoners to move?

A disobedient citizen? A cop's nightmare? Actually, you're probably right, after all he was called Mostafa.

He's an Iranian American, should be tazered regardless of anything else.

 

[DRB]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15765622/

He had his ID but wouldn't show it because he felt like he was being profiled....

Yagman said his client declined to show his school ID because he thought he was being targeted for his appearance. His family is of Iranian descent.

 

[Silver]

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=4763689

Check the video at the end with the officer talking:

"He went limp, which is a form of resistance."

When that's the best defence offered, you know the officers on the scene ****ed up royally.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

We should always do exactly what the nice officers say right?

What about this case,

or this one?

big difference..........i'm assuming that if you don't have a student ID, you aren't allowed in the library. if you don't show them an ID, you should be kicked out, its pretty simple. i don't think they made up that rule just for ****s....

 

[Kihaji]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15765622/

He had his ID but wouldn't show it because he felt like he was being profiled....

Had it been a public place, I might have sided with his action of not showing his ID. But, the UCLA library is NOT a public area, it is a private institutions area explicitly there for the use of it's students.