[blue]

i love college kids who've taken a basic criminal law class and think that they know how it's supposed to work and that they know their rights.

What about Uni cops straight out of the academy?

I was tazed once in the drive-stun mode (halfway out a window, fleeing a party and subsequent MIP ), and I was on the ground for a good two minutes before I could really stand back up. Luckily for me, the po-po thought getting a blast through my ass was punishment enough and gave me a schweet schweet warning...I'm not sure if the barbs have a different affect, but yeah, that was my experience.

Hipster pansies who won't take action piss me off. Those cops deserved to get beaten in that library.

 

[bjanga]

Ok, so after watching the footage of it and listening to the various reports, this is what I get:

Cops show up, try to interview him, he ignores them, and cops grab his arm.

Try again. Cops show up, he walks from his computer to the door (you know, leaving), cop grabs his arm, cue video.

Three choices:
Cop could have let the kid walk out.
Cops could have carried the kid out after tasing him once.
Cops end up carrying the kid out after tasing him 5 times.

 

[BMXman]

Hey it is nothing personal. You just failed to answer the question on the appropriateness of what was said to that student. You know... "get back or you're gonna get tased too." You still have failed to answer it..

I believe it's called obstruction of justice....D

 

[bjanga]

I believe it's called obstruction of justice....D

How? Was he interrupting LOS to Mostafa or the other officers? What if he wanted to leave the library (which would have meant that he would have had to walk past the officer)?

 

[manimal]

I wasn't saying I know the law, I'm just saying it really seems to me like the kid was pushing the cops' buttons, and the bystanders were doing the same. The cop gave them a "friendly reminder" that it was none of their business and was trying to keep a riot from breaking out. Apparently it worked.

If you were just meaning kids in general and not directing at me, my bad, I'm a tool.

sorry....i was agreeing with you no, you obviously "get it".....i was referring to the kids that were up in the cops face.

 

[Silver]

The cop gave them a "friendly reminder" that it was none of their business and was trying to keep a riot from breaking out. Apparently it worked.

The police in a non-police state aren't afforded the protection of Stasi agents. Their actions at work are most certainly public business.

 

[manimal]

Help, I'm being repressed! Did you just threaten me with violence?

Hey it is nothing personal. You just failed to answer the question on the appropriateness of what was said to that student. You know... "get back or you're gonna get tased too." You still have failed to answer it.



It's good to know that you agree with this was wrong in general, but you are still holding back with your "USUALLY" statement. Obviously it is hard for you (and everyone else) to e-speculate on this matter accurately with the available information.

a swift kick in the nuts for an ignorant statement like that is not violence, it's justice

sorry, i was under the assumption that i was to answer the other question. yes, threatening an unruly crowd is quite ok with me, although he was simply bluffing with the taser more than likely because if he'd already fired the barbs, all he had left was a contact jolt. pepper spray would have been much more effective. i've used that tactic several times when i was affecting an arrest and a pissed off crowd starts to gather (common occurrence in the projects where i work). i only give 3 "get back!" warnings before someone breaks out the hot sauce. it's a safety thing. 2 or 3 of us .vs. 50-100 in an angry mob = fighting dirty. if the figures of authority lose a street fight then what will that do to any further attempts at doing what we sometimes have to do? so in other words.....we don't lose, even if that means threatening a crowd that is interferring with our duty.

 

[kidwoo]

i was referring to the kids that were up in the cops face.

As they should have been. That sh1t was way over the top. Forgive those of us who believe cops should have some accountability for their actions. The correct response is not to shock the crap out of them for pursuing that end.

 

[BIGHIT8989]

The kid was gettin High in the library... thats what i've heard from my sister, she goes to UCLA

 

[robdamanii]

Try again. Cops show up, he walks from his computer to the door (you know, leaving), cop grabs his arm, cue video.

Three choices:
Cop could have let the kid walk out.
Cops could have carried the kid out after tasing him once.
Cops end up carrying the kid out after tasing him 5 times.

That's not the point. The kid absolutely refused the cop's orders several times, even after being warned that he would be tazed again. Once he disobeyed a law enforcement officer, it was not about leaving the building any longer. It's really unreasonable that he should be forgiven for mouthing off to the cops and screaming at them when all they wanted to do was ask him some questions. They didn't know why he was there, they were called by a student patrol because he was being belligerent, and they were doing their job. The kid escalated the situation needlessly. He walked from his computer to the door, yes, but when a cop says "stop, we want to talk to you" and you ignore him or otherwise aggravate him, what do you expect?

You f'ing stop and talk to him and it avoids trouble.

What I don't get is why this guy is a martyr for pissing off the cops and getting tazed for it. Why can people not understand that cops will let you be if you just cooperate with them? Why should I feel bad for him when he's too damn stupid to comply with what a person in a position of power is telling him? Yes, sometimes I think things cops hassle people for are stupid, but damnit, SUCK IT UP and be respectful. It makes life a lot easier for EVERYONE.

 

[robdamanii]

The police in a non-police state aren't afforded the protection of Stasi agents. Their actions at work are most certainly public business.

Point taken that it is their business, but it's also the officer's business to protect themselves and the safety of the public at large. By threatening a zapping to the fresh kids who were threatening the cop with turning him in, he potentially prevented a riot that could have hurt not only the officers in question, but any number of other people as well.

I'd say that's pretty good grounds to threaten a zapping.

 

[Silver]

What I don't get is why this guy is a martyr for pissing off the cops and getting tazed for it. Why can people not understand that cops will let you be if you just cooperate with them? Why should I feel bad for him when he's too damn stupid to comply with what a person in a position of power is telling him? Yes, sometimes I think things cops hassle people for are stupid, but damnit, SUCK IT UP and be respectful. It makes life a lot easier for EVERYONE.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're whiter than Casper...am I right?

The guy isn't a martyr. Have you actually watched the video? Whatever the facts were that led up to the first use of the tazer, they don't justify zapping him multiple times afterwards while he's on the ground.

 

[Silver]

Point taken that it is their business, but it's also the officer's business to protect themselves and the safety of the public at large. By threatening a zapping to the fresh kids who were threatening the cop with turning him in, he potentially prevented a riot that could have hurt not only the officers in question, but any number of other people as well.

I'd say that's pretty good grounds to threaten a zapping.

Are you crazy? Those other students stood around for 5 minutes watching this, I didn't hear anyone threaten the cops at all. Asking for a name and a badge number is not a precursor to a riot.

 

[robdamanii]

Are you crazy? Those other students stood around for 5 minutes watching this, I didn't hear anyone threaten the cops at all. Asking for a name and a badge number is not a precursor to a riot.

Did you not hear the amount of screaming and yelling at the cops in the footage? Hell, if I were a cop I'd damn sure be worried about 75 kids standing around, saying that it's "abuse of power" and "we want your badge number" and the possibility that it may become violent. The officers construed the kids in their face as a threat, which is a reasonable assumption. If you let one kid become threatening, others will follow suit, seeing that they can get away with it. It was a perfectly acceptable statement to threaten the kid with a tazing if he didn't back off. I would have done the same thing in the situation.

 

[bjanga]

They didn't know why he was there, they were called by a student patrol because he was being belligerent, and they were doing their job. The kid escalated the situation needlessly. He walked from his computer to the door, yes, but when a cop says "stop, we want to talk to you" and you ignore him or otherwise aggravate him, what do you expect?

You f'ing stop and talk to him and it avoids trouble.

I do not think he was being belligerent, I believe the CSOs called UPD simply because he would not leave his computer. The kid did escalate the situation. I think he wanted out and he flipped when the officer grabbed his arm. If he was trespassing, why would the officer want to delay his vacation of the premises? Why could the officers not have followed him out of the library and questioned him then? Why did he need to be forcefully escorted out when he was walking out in the first place?

 

[robdamanii]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're whiter than Casper...am I right?

The guy isn't a martyr. Have you actually watched the video? Whatever the facts were that led up to the first use of the tazer, they don't justify zapping him multiple times afterwards while he's on the ground.

If he's not acting like a martyr, then why the "here's your F'in Patriot Act" comment? He's playing the race card to full effect, and it's proved by the Muslim alliance league or whatever it is calling for a probe in the case.

I did watch the video. Several times. And each time, before he is tazed again, he is directly refusing to comply with the officers demands. The second time he is tazed, you can very clearly hear him tell the officers to "Fvck off!" just prior to receiving a jolt. After that, the audio is more difficult to discern, but he is ignoring direct orders from a law enforcement officer.

Put it in a different situation. The cops confront a guy who is a known thug with an extensive criminal record and they do the same. They taze him, he resists, they taze him again, etc. Are they wrong in that case? Did they act "inappropriately" if it's someone else?

What the kid did before they got there is really irrelevant when he started disobeying direct orders and resisting them.

I don't feel bad for the kid at all. He knows very well if you disobey an officer of the law you will suffer the consequences of it. He did so willingly and repeatedly, and he had to reap the consequences of it accordingly.

 

[robdamanii]

I do not think he was being belligerent, I believe the CSOs called UPD simply because he would not leave his computer. The kid did escalate the situation. I think he wanted out and he flipped when the officer grabbed his arm. If he was trespassing, why would the officer want to delay his vacation of the premises? Why could the officers not have followed him out of the library and questioned him then? Why did he need to be forcefully escorted out when he was walking out in the first place?

Manimal may correct me if I'm wrong, but SOP is to detain and question the suspect ASAP, not ask him to "please follow me outside" so we can question you.

There was obviously a reason to detain him and question him.

 

[RenegadeRick]

The kid was gettin High in the library... thats what i've heard from my sister, she goes to UCLA

Oh come on. If that were true he would have been charged with posession or something like that.

This is just like when Jeff Spicoli stabbed Mr. Hand at Ridgemont High.

The more times you tell the story, the more distorted it gets. I am surprised you didn't hear worse than that through the grapevine.

 

[kidwoo]

If he's not acting like a martyr, then why the "here's your F'in Patriot Act" comment? He's playing the race card to full effect, and it's proved by the Muslim alliance league or whatever it is calling for a probe in the case.

Yup.

Whiter 'n casper.

 

[robdamanii]

Yup.

Whiter 'n casper.

Glad to see everyone can actually have a discussion about this as opposed to insulting everyone else who disagrees.

My race is a non-factor in this, as is this kid's race. He was being a prick and he got what he deserved. That's not gender specific. I recall seeing lots of white people on "COPS".

 

[ohio]

You are still discounting the fact that he did enough to get someone to call the cops.

Speculation, but I'm guessing it was something along the lines of "fvck you, I'm not leaving." CSOs probably can't use force, and couldn't convince him to leave by weight of authority so they said something like "if you don't leave we'll have to call to cops." He says "fine" or maybe another "fvck you," and they leave to go get the cops at which point he decides "okay I'll leave goddammit."

I would do the same thing, and if you think that warrants the use of a hand on his arm, let alone a tazer you're out of your fvcking mind. I guaran-fvcking-tee you that simply having cops show up was enough to get him to leave with nothing more than a few loud remarks.

 

[valve bouncer]

Glad to see everyone can actually have a discussion about this as opposed to insulting everyone else who disagrees.

My race is a non-factor in this, as is this kid's race. He was being a prick and he got what he deserved. That's not gender specific. I recall seeing lots of white people on "COPS".

The point being made, which was obviously a little too subtle for you, is that visible minorities sometimes get hassled by the police for no apparent reason. Tends to have the not unreasonable affect of pissing you off. Now that may or may not be the case here but may give a clue as the why the guy acted like he did. Maybe it was the fourth time that day someone had asked him for his "papers".

 

[valve bouncer]

Just saw this, semi-related...New Zealand's finest.



http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/clumsy-cop-stuns-himself/2006/11/18/1163266813801.html
A clumsy New Zealand policeman attending a domestic dispute accidentally shot himself and a teenager with a stun gun before pepper-spraying an innocent woman.

The constable was loading his weapon when he accidentally zapped himself with the stun gun's 50,000 volts while trying to stun a man at the centre of the incident last month, the New Zealand Herald reports.

Another shot hit the man's 16-year-old son.

After five attempts to hit the man, the officer eventually used pepper spray, but succeeded only in hitting the man's 21-year-old daughter - an unintended target.

The wanted man eventually gave himself up.

 

[kidwoo]

The point being made, which was obviously a little too subtle for you, is that visible minorities sometimes get hassled by the police for no apparent reason. Tends to have the not unreasonable affect of pissing you off. Now that may or may not be the case here but may give a clue as the why the guy acted like he did. Maybe it was the fourth time that day someone had asked him for his "papers".

What he said.

Being as white as I am, you can't just dismiss the occurance as some whiner 'playing the race card'. It neither diminishes the severity of his treatment nor helps your case in a rational discussion about it. I'm sorry the comment went over your head.

 

[robdamanii]

The point being made, which was obviously a little too subtle for you, is that visible minorities sometimes get hassled by the police for no apparent reason. Tends to have the not unreasonable affect of pissing you off. Now that may or may not be the case here but may give a clue as the why the guy acted like he did. Maybe it was the fourth time that day someone had asked him for his "papers".

The point of the matter is he's pulling a race card after being tazered. Bull.

He was asked for ID. He didn't have it. He became belligerent. Cops showed. He gave them a hard time. He got tazered.

The same thing would have happened if he was white, black, or asian. The fact remains, he gave the cops a hard time, disobeyed their orders, and resisted arrest. He deserves everything he got for his asshattery.

 

[bjanga]

What the kid did before they got there is really irrelevant when he started disobeying direct orders and resisting them.

You walk out of in-n-out and an officer grabs your arm. A second officer is approaching and about to grab your other arm. What do you do?

 

[robdamanii]

You walk out of in-n-out and an officer grabs your arm. A second officer is approaching and about to grab your other arm. What do you do?

Calm down and ask what the problem is. I'm not dumb enough to get fresh with a cop.

This has been the case before. I've had similar run ins with cops being busted for parties. Being compliant and being respectful will get you a long way with officers.

 

[kidwoo]

You walk out of in-n-out and an officer grabs your arm. A second officer is approaching and about to grab your other arm. What do you do?

I'd probably play the race card because I heard that term on the radio and it sounds interesting.

 

[RenegadeRick]

The same thing would have happened if he was white, black, or asian. The fact remains, he gave the cops a hard time, disobeyed their orders, and resisted arrest. He deserves everything he got for his asshattery.

I'm not sure I buy the race thing here, but I'm not sure that it isn't a factor either.

People make judgements about everything, all the time. It is what we do. Race is a factor that is considered in every interaction with another human being, no matter how hard you may try and deny it, it is our nature. Anyone who says that they never consider race is clearly in denial.

Abstraction and generalization is a key means to human intelligence, and this is simply the truth.

Besides... stereotypes are a real time-saver

 

[RenegadeRick]

I've had similar run ins with cops being busted for parties. Being compliant and being respectful will get you a long way with officers.

So what you are saying is that you are making a generalization about people based on previous interactions you have had with other people of the same type. I believe you have just proven my point.

 

[Reactor]

I'm f**king disgusted by this video... and by a lot of people's reaction. "Oh, well he should have had his ID." "Oh, well he should have respected the cop."

Nothing short of a direct threat against the officer - or an attempt to sprint out of there - should have resulted in using a tazer, let alone several times. And I can't believe that many kids just stood there and watched them do that to him. Send tens of thousands of volts through someone and then inform them that if they don't get up, you'll do it again? With any luck the guy will be plowed over by a bus full of students next time he crosses the road.

Disgusting, and I hope next time one of those cops tries that, they get the tazer taken away from them and applied to their nutsack for the better part of ten minutes. I will be interested to see what, if any disciplinary action is taken against the cops.

Tazers are supposed to be employed in place of a lethal weapon, in a situation that would have had you shoot the person in the past. Too many people have started to use them as compliance tools. Here in chandler, an officer tazered a 13 year-old girl for disturbing the peace in a library.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR511392004


I'm all for officers having a tool that lets them not shoot someone. But the because of the alleged safety of the tazer they've started to be employed in circumstances that wouldn't normally involved lethal force.

Arizona: tasered man falls from tree

An $8m claim was filed against the City of Mesa Police Department, Arizona, in the case of Bruce Bellemore, after he was allegedly left paralyzed in February 2004 when a police officer fired a taser at him as he stood in a tree. The shocks from the taser caused him to fall out of the tree onto his head. Bruce Bellemore was an unarmed suspect who had run from a house into a neighbouring garden, where he climbed the tree in order to escape from four guard dogs. At the time he was shot, he was already surrounded by four police officers, one of whom was pointing a gun at him, with the other three pointing tasers. Bruce Bellemore claims he told officers he was having difficulty climbing from the tree due to an injured wrist. Despite this, it is alleged, the fourth officer shot him once with a taser some 20 seconds after arriving on the scene and fired a second taser shot some 15-20 seconds later while Bellemore was convulsing from the first shot. The whole incident, from the time of the arrival of the first officer on the scene, to the time police called paramedics after Bellemore was on the ground, reportedly lasted no more than three and a half minutes. .

He won his lawsuit by the way, $2.5 million I believe, and here is another 13 year-old....

Police defend use of Taser on girl, 13

State attorney cites "serious concerns" about incident, which is under investigation.

By DANA TREEN
The Times-Union

Jacksonville police are defending the decision to use a stun gun on a 13-year-old girl at least twice and perhaps more because she wouldn't follow orders, but the state attorney said the incident raises "serious concerns."

The 65-pound girl was in the back of a patrol car Feb. 7 when she was jolted by a 50,000-volt Taser being used in stun-gun mode, according to a Sheriff's Office report. A Taser typically fires two barbs into a target through which electricity is focused, but in stun-gun mode direct contact is made with the target.

This was two weeks before Sheriff John Rutherford announced a moratorium on Taser use by police.

Police were called to the girl's Collins Road apartment because she was fighting with her mother.

The girl, Llahsmin Lynn Kallead, was handcuffed and placed into a patrol car but managed to slide her cuffed arms to the front of her. Police said she refused to put her arms behind her and started kicking the inside of the cruiser.

That's when she was zapped. Police said there were two jolts, but Kallead said Tuesday she counted five times and showed a reporter five marks on her back and legs she said were caused by the stun gun.

"I saw her jump from one side of the police car to the other" from the shock, her mother, Rosie Vaughan, said Tuesday. "She shook."

The use of force in the UCLA situation was way over the top. And the kicker:

But according to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

After being tazed several times he probably couldn 't get up.

 

[Reactor]

Time for a singing telegrahm? Cop by alkaline trio?

 

[bjanga]

Calm down and ask what the problem is. I'm not dumb enough to get fresh with a cop.

That is the sensible thing, yes. But if instead you were to scream at the officer, telling him to let you go, does that warrant the use of the taser?

I'd probably play the race card because I heard that term on the radio and it sounds interesting.

ORLY?

 

[blue]

After being tazed several times he probably couldn 't get up.

Exactly. It was at that point that I wanted to reach into the video and bust a monitor over that "stand up" motherfvcker's skull. This was one of the few cases where the officers deserved to get beaten down.

Tazers are used in far too many situations that they shouldn't be - the effects of getting hit with one are too varied and risky to be blasting people because they're "passively resisting".

 

[BMXman]

It's obvious many people argueing for this kid haven't had many interactions with police....I have and it's plain and simple you do what they say and things go a lot smoother.....robdamanii has made a perfectly good point.

From what I have read some of you are just bent on hating the police without having the complete story....like I said before, this kid created the situation and when things started turning out bad for him he screams" Patriot act"....it's simple...don't start none won't be none.....D

 

[robdamanii]

That is the sensible thing, yes. But if instead you were to scream at the officer, telling him to let you go, does that warrant the use of the taser?






ORLY?

Yes, if I become unruly, I'd fully expect to get a tazer, a billy club choke hold, a knee in the back, whatever. They're not there to make life comfortable for me, they are there to do their job and protect themselves.

How would you feel if some ranting lunatic was resisting arrest and screaming about the patriot act and abuse of power? They didn't know what the kid was capable of, and they needed to get him subdued so they could commence the arrest. Perfectly acceptable.

The kid has no lasting physical issues with it that we've heard of, so he needs to suck it up and deal with the fact that be brought it on himself.

 

[syadasti]

From what I have read some of you are just bent on hating the police without having the complete story....like I said before, this kid created the situation and when things started turning out bad for him he screams" Patriot act"....it's simple...don't start none won't be none.....D

Regardless of the fact he wasn't going quietly, resisting arrest does not give police the right to police bruality. If they tazered him only once and then dragged him out of the library, there would be no story.

That doesn't even mention the fact they ignored the possibility he had a medical condition as he mentioned and the minor nature of his resistance. How does yelling while exiting a building represent a significant enough threat to the safe of people in the library and/or the officers on the scene to warrant the use of a tazer - they were trigger happy tazer rookies.

 

[binary visions]

It's obvious many people argueing for this kid haven't had many interactions with police....I have and it's plain and simple you do what they say and things go a lot smoother.....robdamanii has made a perfectly good point.

From what I have read some of you are just bent on hating the police without having the complete story....like I said before, this kid created the situation and when things started turning out bad for him he screams" Patriot act"....it's simple...don't start none won't be none.....D

I think many of you arguing are missing the point.

The point isn't that the kid became unruly and the cops didn't smile and keep their attitude all sunshines and rainbows.

The point is that this kid got hit with a dangerous weapon, and got hit with it several times when there is no reason to believe he posed any physical threat to the officers at all. Not only does the video indicate that he wasn't a physical threat, not one of the officers have indicated that he was aggressive or threatening to them in their statements.

I would feel far less strongly about this if they had hit him once, cuffed him while he was on the ground and dragged him out. There were three of them and he had no weapon nor was he physically threatening them. Instead the idiots used the taser again to get him to stand up. And again because they felt he wasn't being quite as cooperative as they would have liked.

Of course the kid put himself in that situation. Of course being polite and respectful would have gotten him further. However, his reaction wasn't completely out of line (that is, I understand why he reacted that way and it would be a natural response for many people), and nothing justified the use of force that extreme.

 

[manimal]

I would do the same thing, and if you think that warrants the use of a hand on his arm, let alone a tazer you're out of your fvcking mind. I guaran-fvcking-tee you that simply having cops show up was enough to get him to leave with nothing more than a few loud remarks.

did you frothers ever think that the police had reason to arrest him before they even went in based on the testimony of the security guards? the kid was TRESPASSING, an arrestable offense in most jurisdictions. he may have wanted to leave but at that point, when the officers were investigating the validity of the TRESPASSING charge, he was NOT free to leave. if this is the case then the officers had probable cause to believe that he was, in fact, trespassing and therfore they were constitutionally legal in not allowing him to leave so that they could conduct their investigation and make charges if necessary. just because a shoplifter is leaving a store and not causing a problem doesn't mean we just let him walk out. just because the boyfriend said he wasn't going to hit his girlfriend anymore doesn't mean he can just go.

again, i'm not promoting their actions of using the tazer in the first place, i'm just proving that the cops were justified in not letting him leave, he taunted the bull by not leaving the first time he was asked. but in this case there are other methods to be used, especially when you have the only exit covered. my department currently isn't using tazers while we wait for the justice academy to finish their report on the liability/safety of tazers. i believe that they are a very useful tool, especially when confronted with a situation where lethal force could be used....but an unarmed kid who couldn't go anywhere could've been handled differently.

and don't give me the race card crap. people forget that the attitude card gets pulled way before that. whenever someone pulls the race card on me on the street, i pull mine. cherokee indian and thell them they can KMA. it usually goes like this: "stupid white boy cop!, you just harrasin' me 'cuz someone put an 8-ball of crack in my pocket you f'in cracker mo'fo!"
"I'm american indian sir, my people were harrassed and oppressed in THIS country for almost 100 years before you're people arrived. my people were murdered and forced into little corners of land. if you wan't to play the race card to try and justify to yourself why you had an 8-ball of crack in your pocket then fine, but don't be such an ignorant dick and assume that, just because i'm pale-skinned, i'm a "cracker"."

"uh...yeah..man...i feel you....you know..."

 

[skinny mike]

did you frothers ever think that the police had reason to arrest him before they even went in based on the testimony of the security guards? the kid was TRESPASSING, an arrestable offense in most jurisdictions.

he was a UCLA student, he had every right to be there. he just didn't want to show his id because he felt he was being racially profiled, which i don't think is too unreasonable in this day and age. i guess you could say "brown is the new black."