[Evel Monkey]

Originally posted by Transcend
Evel - According to the info I have from orange, there is definetly a 4" patriot. In fact here is one that one of my team guys is on this season. It now has a 5th element air shock on it however, not that beat down fox coil. It is an older model, but the 4" option is still available as far as I can tell? I will look into it this evening for you guys.

As for pricing, the stuff on the site seems AWEFULLY high. It is MSRP in pounds sterling. My pricing sheet lists some stuff cheaper, but im not sure why so I don't want to jump to any conclusions.

Is this your fellow riders rides, looks very nice. Older model, what year? Can you tell me the HA on that. Please let me know what you find out on price points.

Thanks

 

[Ice Bullit]

I would look at the Preston FR from transition bikes. It has 4" of travel and from what I hear is a good 4X frame as well. It retails for $850.00.

NSMB just did a review on it too, you should check it out.

http://nsmb.com/gear/transition_review_04_04.php

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by dw
Its too bad that you are not down with the linkage bikes, for a 4X bike and dirtjumping, 4X especially, wasted energy in the suspension means less accereation, and a disadvantage either way. Some linkage bikes (dw-link bikes for example) can be extremely durable, with stiffer rear ends than conventional single pivots for the same weight. (and vise versa for some other linkage designs) Its all in the bike design though. Not all frame designs are created equal, no matter how similar they look to the naked eye.

The Hollowpoint MTX fits every one of your requirements to a tee except for #1 and possibly #6. I dont know if any are available still . It was short run, but the bike absolutely rips.

Good luck Scott!

dw

DW, I found the Hollowpoint XC on the Ironhorse website, but no MTX version. Do you have link or pic of the MTX, or is it the same bike rebadged? I like the look of the design and I'm sure it sprints well with the mostly rearward wheel path. Or, at least that's how the CAD drawing on the site works out. For cornering I prefer something a bit more vertical overall, but with only 4.5" of travel it's shouldn't be too big of a deal. What about durability? Is the MTX version beefed up for casing big jumps? I'm guessing the listed geometry is a bit off. It says 66.5 HA??

I need the 411.

As you know I do prefer single pivot bikes, especially for a single front gear and sprinting on smooth ground. I don't think I need anything more complex, but that doesn't mean the HP MTX wouldn't also be a great bike.


SC

 

[DßR]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
DW, I found the Hollowpoint XC on the Ironhorse website, but no MTX version. Do you have link or pic of the MTX, or is it the same bike rebadged? I like the look of the design and I'm sure it sprints well with the mostly rearward wheel path. Or, at least that's how the CAD drawing on the site works out. For cornering I prefer something a bit more vertical overall, but with only 4.5" of travel it's shouldn't be too big of a deal. What about durability? Is the MTX version beefed up for casing big jumps? I'm guessing the listed geometry is a bit off. It says 66.5 HA??

I need the 411.

As you know I do prefer single pivot bikes, especially for a single front gear and sprinting on smooth ground. I don't think I need anything more complex, but that doesn't mean the HP MTX wouldn't also be a great bike.


SC

beef:

 

[Crash_Tested]

There is some info on the Hollowpoint MTX in these threads

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66014&highlight=Hollowpoint+MTX

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82012&highlight=Hollowpoint+MTX

 

[ssaddict]

Those bikes looked so Tits last weekend, I gotta get one. I think they have a lower travel setting too maybe 3.75 or something, dave will chime in soon i'm sure. But the rear ends are nice and stout because its still a 1 peice rear tri, the links it does have are nice and short and transfer flex or rather lack there of into the frame really good (unlike a longer linked 4bar bike for comparison).

 

[YETI187]

i don't know if someone already posted this one (i'm too tired right now to browse through all the responses) but i would reccomend the arrow ds3 http://www.arrowracing.com/framesets/ds3.html it seems as though it fits all your requirements, except the single pivot (the wheel moves on a single pivot arc though), and possibly price (i saw no price listed for it) but it seems like a great bike from the frame specs

 

[YETI187]

apparently someone has already posted on the ds3, but it still seems like a great bike

 

[YETI187]

check out the chumba wumba zulu dss, single pivot, but again, not sure on teh price http://www.chumbawumba.com/zuludss.htm

 

[YETI187]

the karpiel 4x and the specialized mx fit the profile of having the extra travel for if you mess up a jump, but are multi pivot. i believe the specialized is within budget but from a big company that might not sell through go-ride. karpiel is multi pivot, not sure on price, but from a small company

 

[BMXman]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
I owned one of those a couple of seasons ago. I really liked, but it was a bit long in the TT for me (5'8"). I ran a 35mm stem to help, but it was still a bit longer than I like. The durability was really good, I even took it out for a few DH days with the linkage set at 4.5" of travel. I tried 26" wheels on it, as long as you ran 3.5" of travel or less they were fine, but at 4.5" a 2.3 tire would rub the cable mount on the back of the seat tube. As for 4X racing the around the BB pivot is not so hot for sprinting. Set at the 2.5" mode it sprinted decently, but any more travel and it was a mushy pedaler.

whoa...you and I have the same exact opnion on this bike....good to see someone else has a similar review....I'm 5'9"....D

 

[Curb Hucker]

Originally posted by YETI187
the karpiel 4x and the specialized mx fit the profile of having the extra travel for if you mess up a jump, but are multi pivot. i believe the specialized is within budget but from a big company that might not sell through go-ride. karpiel is multi pivot, not sure on price, but from a small company

That Karp is over 2G i think, and lets not forget, this isnt a usual bike for Jan to build so it will take even longer to get

 

[chillindrdude]

why not the azonic propulsion?

 

[Sandwich]

word-
the cheeta FSDS is indeed different than the prowler...not that it matters.

 

[dw]

Originally posted by -BB-
WHAT!!!

But I wanted one!!!

Bastard!!

Call Todd ASAP!

dw

 

[dv8cam]

Originally posted by DßR
beef:

Not that rear end! I've seen BMX bikes with stronger stays!

 

[The Mad Haderer]

The Planet X is about a month out of having the production runs arrive...i am riding one of the final pre=productions and they nailed it...16 inch chainstay...BBsized single pivot...room for a 2.5 tire...adjustable beyond belief....4 inch travel...fox avaw/propedal equipped....with a talas on the front and some mono minis the bike wieghs in at a 32 lbs mark and thats with my DH wheels on it. thro on some singletracks and lighter hubs and uve got a 30 lbs bomb proof slalom ripper frame.

Pm me if you would like some contact info for Peter @ planet X.

 

[DßR]

Originally posted by dv8cam
Not that rear end! I've seen BMX bikes with stronger stays!

you can tell how strong something is just by looking at a photo of it? Wow. You just made FEA obsolete and hundreds of thousands of man-hours in the engineering profession un-necessary.



[hint] it's a triangulated unit connected to the front end by links you can't see; it doesn't need 2" diameter tubes to be stiff/strong.

 

[Superdeft]

Originally posted by v10"o-PlEaSuRe
The Planet X is about a month out of having the production runs arrive...i am riding one of the final pre=productions and they nailed it...16 inch chainstay...BBsized single pivot...room for a 2.5 tire...adjustable beyond belief....4 inch travel...fox avaw/propedal equipped....with a talas on the front and some mono minis the bike wieghs in at a 32 lbs mark and thats with my DH wheels on it. thro on some singletracks and lighter hubs and uve got a 30 lbs bomb proof slalom ripper frame.

Pm me if you would like some contact info for Peter @ planet X.

can you post some pics?

 

[Roasted]

Cove hooker seems to fit the bill. I know retail the frame is 1150 american.

 

[The Mad Haderer]

Originally posted by Superdeft
can you post some pics?

Ill have to see if im can leak the info....gotta talk to the men up stairs but take my word for it...this bike is the tazer killer.

 

[Instigator]

Originally posted by v10"o-PlEaSuRe
Ill have to see if im can leak the info....gotta talk to the men up stairs but take my word for it...this bike is the tazer killer.

Got me interested

 

[Superdeft]

Originally posted by v10"o-PlEaSuRe
...this bike is the tazer killer.

It's not much different from the proto-pics that were released earlier is it? And what of the 6" version?

 

[The Mad Haderer]

Originally posted by Superdeft
It's not much different from the proto-pics that were released earlier is it? And what of the 6" version?

visually not really....different head tube...if you look a bit closer though you will notice some very nice changes. I will be at all except the east coast nationals so feel free to sneak a peak if u make it up to sonoma.

The 6 inch version is in the process of being produced....only very slight differences in frame looks, a lil different geometry but still super adjustable, and VERY VERY stiff. the proto im running can be pushed to a lil over 5 inches of travel by throwing in a different stroke shock.

 

[dv8cam]

Originally posted by DßR
you can tell how strong something is just by looking at a photo of it? Wow. You just made FEA obsolete and hundreds of thousands of man-hours in the engineering profession un-necessary.



[hint] it's a triangulated unit connected to the front end by links you can't see; it doesn't need 2" diameter tubes to be stiff/strong.

Triangulation does not matter, man. Those stays will flex to all hell on the gate or powering out of a turn (linkage does not matte in this case. It will flex between dropouts & links along the stays). Where have you ever seen stays so small on any slalom, 4x, dirt jumper, freeride bike? Even the S.C. VP Heckler/Blur 4x frame has been reported to have flexy rear, and they look twice as wide as the IH's stays. Plus look at the geo. Headangle would make it steer slow as a walrus out of turns. And the rear length won't make it manual worth sh---. 20 plus years of racing talking here, son.

 

[Transcend]

Originally posted by dv8cam
Triangulation does not matter, man. Those stays will flex to all hell on the gate or powering out of a turn (linkage does not matte in this case. It will flex between dropouts & links along the stays). Where have you ever seen stays so small on any slalom, 4x, dirt jumper, freeride bike? Even the S.C. VP Heckler/Blur 4x frame has been reported to have flexy rear, and they look twice as wide as the IH's stays. Plus look at the geo. Headangle would make it steer slow as a walrus out of turns. And the rear length won't make it manual worth sh---. 20 plus years of racing talking here, son.

I'll put FEA and computer modelling against your "looking" at the frame anyday.

LOOK at the space shuttle, and the F117A stealth fighter. Neithe rof those look like they can fly (and they are both inherently unstable) but like whoa, they do.

Don't judge a book by its cover.

 

[Tame Ape]

Originally posted by Acadian

Wow, it looks like they've gone to the 1.5 toptube standard too!

 

[go-ride.com]

The PX bike looks pretty pissed. Does anyone have any geometry or measurements. TT length, BB height, Head angle, CS length. What size shock does it use? Any pricing yet?

Looks like the CS can be set really short, but I will say the dropouts are a bit ugly. I guess I could just cut some of the xtra adjustment off.

If they haven't gone into final production I would recommend adding a gusset plate to the down tube where the shock mount is welded.

If the price is good I would like to bring some of those in for Go-ride. I think we could promote that bike as a DJ/Urban bike and maybe get a few 4X racers.

 

[Jm_]

Originally posted by Transcend
I'll put FEA and computer modelling against your "looking" at the frame anyday.

LOOK at the space shuttle, and the F117A stealth fighter. Neithe rof those look like they can fly (and they are both inherently unstable) but like whoa, they do.

Don't judge a book by its cover.

You got a point with the F117 (or a B2), but the space shuttle just drops like a brick out of the sky...I wouldn't really call it "flying". To "simulate" it they fly a learjet with the thrust REVERSERS ON in flight, it's literally got the glide ratio of a brick.

 

[Jm_]

Originally posted by dv8cam
Triangulation does not matter, man. Those stays will flex to all hell on the gate or powering out of a turn (linkage does not matte in this case. It will flex between dropouts & links along the stays). Where have you ever seen stays so small on any slalom, 4x, dirt jumper, freeride bike? Even the S.C. VP Heckler/Blur 4x frame has been reported to have flexy rear, and they look twice as wide as the IH's stays. Plus look at the geo. Headangle would make it steer slow as a walrus out of turns. And the rear length won't make it manual worth sh---. 20 plus years of racing talking here, son.

wow..I didn't know we had a lot of DH races back in 1984.

Anyhow, one key problem with your "visual review" is that the rear triangle connects to the main frame in two places. This makes a huge difference. Call us back when you figure it out.

hint: A single pivot might need 2x beefier stays since the swingarm connects with the mainframe only in one place.

 

[dw]

Originally posted by dv8cam
Triangulation does not matter, man. Those stays will flex to all hell on the gate or powering out of a turn (linkage does not matte in this case. It will flex between dropouts & links along the stays). Where have you ever seen stays so small on any slalom, 4x, dirt jumper, freeride bike? Even the S.C. VP Heckler/Blur 4x frame has been reported to have flexy rear, and they look twice as wide as the IH's stays. Plus look at the geo. Headangle would make it steer slow as a walrus out of turns. And the rear length won't make it manual worth sh---. 20 plus years of racing talking here, son.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAA What?!

Thats awesome man.

So tell me, what is the geometry of the bike and what are the stay tube measrements ? (dont forget thickness) Better include chainstay yoke dimensions too because that has a huge effect on stiffness.

 

[kidwoo]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
The PX bike looks pretty pissed. Does anyone have any geometry or measurements. TT length, BB height, Head angle, CS length. What size shock does it use? Any pricing yet?

Looks like the CS can be set really short, but I will say the dropouts are a bit ugly. I guess I could just cut some of the xtra adjustment off.

If they haven't gone into final production I would recommend adding a gusset plate to the down tube where the shock mount is welded.

If the price is good I would like to bring some of those in for Go-ride. I think we could promote that bike as a DJ/Urban bike and maybe get a few 4X racers.

I'd hit it

 

[Mani_UT]

Originally posted by Acadian
ya that yeti is also pretty dreamy! So is the Turner Rail...so is the....

Yeah no ****..
Scott is such a bad influence anyway.. He started to talk to me about the idea thursday.. I hooked up like a fish and Friday I had a rail!! I am such a kook lol

I think I am gonna like that bike though. And it's all amt black.. It's gonna match the cuervo !!!

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by v10"o-PlEaSuRe
The Planet X is about a month out of having the production runs arrive...i am riding one of the final pre=productions and they nailed it...16 inch chainstay...BBsized single pivot...room for a 2.5 tire...adjustable beyond belief....4 inch travel...fox avaw/propedal equipped....with a talas on the front and some mono minis the bike wieghs in at a 32 lbs mark and thats with my DH wheels on it. thro on some singletracks and lighter hubs and uve got a 30 lbs bomb proof slalom ripper frame.

Pm me if you would like some contact info for Peter @ planet X.

The bike looks nice. What HA did you get with the Fox fork? Any idea of retail price? One more...what stroke shock does it use?

I did leave a voicemail at PX USA last week, but haven't heard anything. Should I send an email?

 

[The Mad Haderer]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
The bike looks nice. What HA did you get with the Fox fork? Any idea of retail price? One more...what stroke shock does it use?

I did leave a voicemail at PX USA last week, but haven't heard anything. Should I send an email?

the head angle and bb hieght are all adjustable depending on ur shock choice and where u mount it up on the bracket.... im also running a talas up front so i just dialed it up a lil for sea otter DH and down a lil for mtnx....i also run my bike kinda steep no idea on #s but it rails.

it can run a variety of strokes...for about 4 inches i use a Fox Float AVA in a 6.5 x1.5 stroke. its basically the most standard XC length shock on the market.

Retail price depending on shock choice will be in the neighborhood of 1000-1200 is what im told....will have pix on wednesday nite

Also...the head tube is not 1.5 standard....it is an internally relieved 1 1/8 standard head tube so the diameter is big all the way thru but it has a varying wall thickness

 

[Bert]

Thought I'd chime in here as I have the other, newest proto of the PX SplitTail that Mikey's talking about. I'll also agree that this version has the specs nailed, as I've ridden the previous yellow version for about the last 2 years. Finally, it's here!!!

So, just ran a tape on mine and can say that, in my current setup, it looks like this:

Chainstays from 16"-17 1/8" in 4 diff. 3/8" increments.
Effective top tube of 21 1/2" (I believe, though maybe 21 3/4").
BB ht of 12 7/8" and wheelbase of 42 5/8" (again, in my shock setting which is a bit lower and slacker than Mikey's).
Standover's 27 1/2" at the bb.
There are 7 shock shuttle positions and the mount is not triangular, probably giving something less than 14 possible positions.

So, for shameless plug's sake, I'll agree that a 4-bar is unnecessary for a 3-4" bike with a ProPedal or 5th Air. Look at the Tazers: rode well, but made within reasonable weight ranges, they break. Otherwise, too much material needed to keep it stiff. This bike has a huge pivot and is super stiff. The angles are there. One thing you may pat yourself on the back for Scott is that production bikes will most likely come with the shuttle CNC'd as part of a larger "gusset" running from its current position down to the bb shell. STIFF. I don't have a weight yet, nor do I have pics, but soon. Anyone interested, check it this coming weekend at Bass Lake or at Sonoma or Big Bear. It kicks. Oh yeah, and it's matte black. Pink will never be the new black.

 

[DHTRAVELER]

Scott,
Just do the Rail and be done with it. You sold me mine and I love it!!!

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by DHTRAVELER
Scott,
Just do the Rail and be done with it. You sold me mine and I love it!!!

I looks like price will be a deciding factor. I really want to build a demo bike that more riders can afford and justify. I can sell the Rail for about $1300, so if the PX is $1200 it looks like I will go with the Rail, but if the PX is more like $1000 then that is enough of a price difference to add a new bike to our line.

If I was building the bike for just myself, it would be a Rail. I have absolute faith in Turners products, so the extra few $ would be worth it for me.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
I looks like price will be a deciding factor. I really want to build a demo bike that more riders can afford and justify. I can sell the Rail for about $1300, so if the PX is $1200 it looks like I will go with the Rail, but if the PX is more like $1000 then that is enough of a price difference to add a new bike to our line.

If I was building the bike for just myself, it would be a Rail. I have absolute faith in Turners products, so the extra few $ would be worth it for me.

From a racers perspective the Rail is a little too slack and too heavy to really be considered. It would definetly be a fun play bike though!

 

[DHTRAVELER]

Originally posted by SuspectDevice
From a racers perspective the Rail is a little too slack and too heavy to really be considered. It would definetly be a fun play bike though!

I know it was designed for a 110mm fork but couldn't you put an 80 or 100mm travel fork on it to get the head angle steeper for racing? I am still learning what ways you can use effectively to adjust geometery, so if I'm way off on this please be kind.

I guess its more the axle to headset race distance than the fork travel that effects head angel, no? The quest for knowledge continues...