Underage Drinking

sanjuro · May 25, 2006

2 things.

I don't know about teenage alcoholism in Europe. My best friend from London was an alcoholic by 18. I think America does publicize the crazy teenage drinking though.

And two, Europeans do not drive as much as Americans (isn't the price of gas in Europe around $8 a liter?). So obviously less drunk driving in Europe, which is the biggest concern about teenage drinking.

BurlyShirley · May 25, 2006

I agree with the age constraints, unless said minors enter the military. Statistically, I dont think kids are responsible enough to drive, however, with the world being expensive as it is, kids have a true need to be able to drive to jobs, etc. There is no true need for them to be able to drink, however.
You can argue all day long, post whatever stats you like, (of course I have my personal examples :rofl:

) most people, including myself, wont be convinced that kids can hand THAT added responsibility.
In a nutshell, suck it up princess.

sanjuro · May 25, 2006

BurlyShirley said:
I agree with the age constraints, unless said minors enter the military. Statistically, I dont think kids are responsible enough to drive, however, with the world being expensive as it is, kids have a true need to be able to drive to jobs, etc. There is no true need for them to be able to drink, however.
You can argue all day long, post whatever stats you like, (of course I have my personal examples ) most people, including myself, wont be convinced that kids can hand THAT added responsibility.
In a nutshell, suck it up princess.

Just curious, what was your opinion of the drinking age when you were 18?

Changleen · May 25, 2006

Just FYI, the drinking age in France is 14, and I think either unlimited or 8 years for drinking with a meal.

I think the difference is that people who are exposed to alcohol in a mature environment earlier in their lives don't see it as such a big thing. It's not built up to be this big thing, so people don't rush out and abuse it the moment it is legally available. The trouble is this only works if their introduction is responsible and mature.

Teenage drink driving and drunken criminality IS a problem in Europe, it's not like we don't have a problem at all - The problem certain places in Europe are having (notably central London, Manchester, and basically deprived inner-city areas) is that this responsibility is not often not present and Alcohol is available to these idiots.

It's a question of responsibility and maturity in dealing with it.

sanjuro · May 25, 2006

Changleen said:
Just FYI, the drinking age in France is 14, and I think either unlimited or 8 years for drinking with a meal.

So what was your opinion of the drinking age when you were 13?

Changleen · May 25, 2006

sanjuro said:
And two, Europeans do not drive as much as Americans (isn't the price of gas in Europe around $8 a liter?). So obviously less drunk driving in Europe, which is the biggest concern about teenage drinking.

Uh, I don't really think that's quite right - we don't drive as FAR but we drive probably nearly as often. (Well, maybe not as much as people from AZ and the like, but...) and when you're drunk it's the driving at all that's the problem.

BurlyShirley · May 25, 2006

sanjuro said:
Just curious, what was your opinion of the drinking age when you were 18?

Honestly, I didnt start drinking until I was 21. Ask anyone around RM.
However, I did sell beer to friends out the back of the grocery store I stocked at for a couple years.
I recognized why the laws were there tho.

Changleen · May 25, 2006

sanjuro said:
So what was your opinion of the drinking age when you were 13?

I don't remember having one. I was brough up in the UK where it was always 18, but I have been easily able to drink in Pubs and purchase Alcohol since I was about 15, basically beacuse of where I grew up. (Small / medium sized town.. People know who is dick etc..), and my parents would often allow me to drink with meals and so on at the weekend. It's never really been a big thing for me, although I did get pretty pissed up at University.

sanjuro · May 25, 2006

Changleen said:
Uh, I don't really think that's quite right - we don't drive as FAR but we drive probably nearly as often. (Well, maybe not as much as people from AZ and the like, but...) and when you're drunk it's the driving at all that's the problem.

Living in NYC, New Orleans, and SF, I rarely drove drunk (although I did occasionally drive after a few, especially in New Orleans where I have never heard of any my friends getting a DUI).

Usually, the traffic, parking, and the DUI threat really stopped me from drinking and driving, espeically, when I had plenty of other options to get around.

However, in Connecticut, the bars were 10-30 miles away. There is a place where I was very nervous driving after a certain hour.

Silver · May 25, 2006

Growing up in the cold North where we drank to keep warm, and the age was 18, I saw much less really stupid behavior than I do down here. Mind you, if you're 21 years old and die because you did 21 shots of tequila in an hour, we probably didn't need you around anyways.

The other thing I noticed is that households of friends where the parents were Nazis about alcohol use turned into the biggest binge drinkers out of my group of associates.

BurlyShirley · May 25, 2006

I just really didnt like the feeling of being drunk when I was younger. So I never really drank, just got high. Now getting high messes me up too much ( I think the average dope has just gotten better) and getting drunk is great.

ohio · May 25, 2006

BurlyShirley said:
Statistically, I dont think kids

We're not talking about kids. We're talking about adults.

If 18 year-olds weren't so apathetic and the ACLU didn't have better things to do, the law would be tossed. The drinking law is actually unconstitutional under equal protection.

BurlyShirley · May 25, 2006

ohio said:
We're not talking about kids. We're talking about adults.

If 18 year-olds weren't so apathetic and the ACLU didn't have better things to do, the law would be tossed. The drinking law is actually unconstitutional under equal protection.

Better things to do like....uh...keep child molestors from getting hassled? Everyone knows this is a battle that cant be won. And Im glad for it.

dan wask · May 25, 2006

Take it from a kid who is 16. Drinking and drugs are even more of a problem because we can't get it all the time. When we do get it, we binge, purge, and usually binge again.

The only issue I see in the lower numbers of teen drunk driving in europe is the fact that in most places you have to be 18 to get your liscence. Also, most european countries have prevelent numbers of superior driving machines (see BMW/VW/Audi here) :rofl:

I understand this is about underage drinking, but I throw marijuana in the same boat. In my small catholic school sophmore class of about 180 students we have had 8 kids expelled for possesion of the herb this year. If its illegal, we will just use it more than we are told.

Its like when a child is told he can't have a cookie before dinner, he only wants that cookie even more, and when he reaches into the jar, he stuffs his face with 5 of em'

Tenchiro · May 26, 2006

I have met people under 21 that could handle their booze far better than some adults I know.

While age really isn't the greatest determining factor of booze worthiness, it is the best we can do. But I feel it should be 18, after all if you are old enough to die for your country, you are old enough to indulge.

Chunky Munkey · May 26, 2006

My parents were able to drink at the age of 18, I was able to as well, and kids today should be allowed to drink at 18 in my opinion. It didn't do anything to harm me. I drank and drove regularly. And back then there were the typical morons that drive like MORONS while under the influence trying to impress a girl or buddies and wind up dead in an accident or worse, kill someone else, but there are people like that in ANY age group and any generation. If the country considers you an adult at 18, if the country says in time of war that you have to sign up for selective service in case there is a war, if they say that at the age of 18 you will be held responsible as an ADULT if you hit someone in the face, then why can't you be held responsible as an adult to consume alcohol?

In the least, the military should be allowed but I don't think it's done anything to stop drinking underage or driving under the influence.

It's parental control and involvement that prevents kids from drinking too much and driving under it's influence. My father was a liquor salesmen. And he told me moderation. That's why I'm still here today and witnessed cars cut in half in the junk yard from people I once knew all cuz of some moron doing a 110mph under the influence with his lights out. Real smart! It's not the majority. It's a few morons that made it bad for everyone.

Said my part. Done.

valve bouncer · May 26, 2006

Used to be 21 in Australia, now 18. 20 here in Japan.
I'm of the opinion that if you're old enough to vote, you're old enough to drink. You're either considered an adult or you're not.
In other news they have beer vending machines on the street in Japan but don't really seem to have a problem with under-age drinking.

Changleen · May 26, 2006

blue said:
All of the people that I regularly drink with would NEVER get behind the wheel of a car after drinking.

Fortunately I think this attitude is becoming more prevalent, which is great. Amongst my peer group, it is pretty looked on in pretty much the same way as two-timing your wife: :nope:

chicodude · May 26, 2006

Its a touchy subject I can see. I drink, and I handle my alcohol fairly well, and I would rather walk home in the pouring down rain than drive home drunk.

I think its wierd that you are considered an adult at 18, but not adult enough for booze.

ALEXIS_DH · May 26, 2006

Changleen said:
Just FYI, the drinking age in France is 14, and I think either unlimited or 8 years for drinking with a meal.

I think the difference is that people who are exposed to alcohol in a mature environment earlier in their lives don't see it as such a big thing. It's not built up to be this big thing, so people don't rush out and abuse it the moment it is legally available. The trouble is this only works if their introduction is responsible and mature.

Teenage drink driving and drunken criminality IS a problem in Europe, it's not like we don't have a problem at all - The problem certain places in Europe are having (notably central London, Manchester, and basically deprived inner-city areas) is that this responsibility is not often not present and Alcohol is available to these idiots.

It's a question of responsibility and maturity in dealing with it.

i also think it has to do with that.
there is certain stigma attached to alcohol, lacking in other societies, that makes a big deal out of it, which kinda makes drinking and binge drinking some sort of bar-mitzvah equivalent or something.

my dad let me have beers without supervision since i was 13, i never abused it, alcohol was like most other stuff on my fridge. there was always wine on our table for dinner, similarly for all my peers.

first time i drank a hard liquor, i was in grade school, we were on a restaurant with the family and when the waiter asked what i wanted, i boldy said "double scotch". the waiter looked at my dad, my dad nodded, and a double scotch i got.
i had a little tiny sip, but it sucked at the time and made a funny face. my dad (and the table) laughed, and that was the beggining of my alcohol education. it was never a big deal, just a natural part of a meal. and i didnt drink to get drunk (until i was 16 for the 1st time), just like i never ate wasabi until passing out.

Changleen · May 26, 2006

You can pass out from Wasabi?

*Runs to fridge...*

Chunky Munkey · May 26, 2006

Changleen said:
You can pass out from Wasabi?

Yeh, Wasabi wit dat?

Old Man G Funk · May 26, 2006

BurlyShirley said:
I agree with the age constraints, unless said minors enter the military.

That could be a good recruiting tool for the military. "Join the armed forces and you can get sh*t-faced....legally."

With that, they might be able to bring the recruitment numbers up high enough that they might stop recruiting kids with autism.

Old Man G Funk · May 26, 2006

blue said:
I find that age-based prohibition works about as well as "abstinence only" sexual education for teens. 18+ (and 16+) year olds will continue to drink with such laws, but they will do so far more abusively and heavily, due to lack of access and alcohol education. European nations, with 16 and 18 year old drinking ages do not have such rampant problems with teen alcoholism and teen drunk driving. Why? I would think part of it would be cultural-Europeans are brought up in a culture which indulges itself in alcohol, but in moderation (including parental education, something the US lacks). The other part is liable to be higher age limits on driving, and the lack of the automobile as a major mode of status and transport amongst European teens.

I've also been of the same mind for a while. The drinking age should be 18 or lower. And, I do see some of the same mindset with abstinence only education. I think a lot of people have the head-in-the-sand mindset that if you don't talk about something, then you don't have to worry about it. We don't educate our children about these things, make them taboo, then when the kids find out from less than reliable sources and the problems don't get solved, we wonder why.

fluff · May 26, 2006

Is it illegal for under 21s to drink alcohol or to buy alcohol?

Old Man G Funk · May 26, 2006

fluff said:
Is it illegal for under 21s to drink alcohol or to buy alcohol?

Yes to both.

fluff · May 26, 2006

Old Man G Funk said:
Yes to both.

Sheesh, that's restrictive. Here you can buy it at 18 but you can legally drink at home from a lot younger than that.

You guys have some strange laws.

valve bouncer · May 26, 2006

fluff said:
Sheesh, that's restrictive. Here you can buy it at 18 but you can legally drink at home from a lot younger than that.

You guys have some strange laws.

I'd be guessing though that alcohol is more widely available in America than in Britain in terms of where and when you can get it. Australia is even more restrictive than Britain in terms of availability.
Noticed the pub culture changing much with the relaxing of the closing time laws Fluffo?

fluff · May 26, 2006

valve bouncer said:
Noticed the pub culture changing much with the relaxing of the closing time laws Fluffo?

No.. I have a baby remember... :mad:

I think it'll take a few years for peoples' habits to change but I'll be sure to let you know.

Brian HCM#1 · May 26, 2006

dan wask said:
In my small catholic school sophmore class of about 180 students we have had 8 kids expelled for possesion of the herb this year. If its illegal, we will just use it more than we are told.

That explains it, Catholic school. Also that's why all girl Catholic schools have the highest pregnancy rate around. I drank at a young age, my mom used to buy me beer when I was in HS. I was able to drink when ever I wanted to as long as I was being responsible. However laws are laws and they are set to protect you.

valve bouncer · May 26, 2006

Brian HCM#1 said:
However laws are laws and they are set to protect you.

I dunno if I buy that at all. Sometimes the law is obviously and demonstrably an ass. I'm guessing you wouldn't be so sanguine about a law that says you must pay a tithe to Robdomanatrix.

sanjuro · May 26, 2006

valve bouncer said:
I dunno if I buy that at all. Sometimes the law is obviously and demonstrably an ass. I'm guessing you wouldn't be so sanguine about a law that says you must pay a tithe to Robdomanatrix.

Boy, a law which protect teenagers which downside is they can't booze it up on the weekends...

Horrible!

ohio · May 26, 2006

sanjuro said:
Boy, a law which protect teenagers which downside is they can't booze it up on the weekends...

Horrible!

I law which INTENDS to protect teenagers. The reality is it protects no one, makes young ADULTS much less likely to obtain emergency help for, say, alcohol poisoning, and sets a precedent for age discrimination among legal adults.

If we want to make legal adulthood 21 years in the US that's a different story. If we don't think someone is old enough to drink, then we don't think they're old enough to take on adult responsibilities. Parents should therefore be held accountable for the actions of their children until age 21. 19 year old rapists and murderers should be tried in juvenile court.

valve bouncer · May 26, 2006

sanjuro said:
Boy, a law which protect teenagers which downside is they can't booze it up on the weekends...

Horrible!

Wasn't my point at all but since you brought it up....when most of the rest of the world trusts their young adults enough to let them have a beer whenever they want then maybe then, yes in this case (drinking age of 21), the law is an ass.

drt_jumper · May 26, 2006

How about lowering the drinking age to 18 (technically and adult) but at the same time make the penalties for drunk driving (b.a.c. must be considerably over the legal limit) much stronger. Here in WV and VA you get three try's to go out and kill someone or yourself. How about 1st offense Licence yanked for a year and a $1500 fine. 2nd offense....guess your walking for the rest of your life, and a $5000 fine. I dont drive drunk...never have, I have had too many friends killed by drunk drivers, and killed themselves. I can garrantee that at least with the people I know that would basically set in stone a true desig. driver. Just a thought.

sanjuro · May 26, 2006

ohio said:
I law which INTENDS to protect teenagers. The reality is it protects no one, makes young ADULTS much less likely to obtain emergency help for, say, alcohol poisoning

Good one. I use the same argument for legalizing cocaine, crystal meth, and gunplay

sanjuro · May 26, 2006

Seriously, age discrimination? Good luck with your Supreme Court case.

The real issue with the 21 drinking age is driving. 18-24 years have the worst driving record, and considering the Federal Govt forces states to legalize the drinking age by withholding highway money, it is pretty obvious what they are doing...

Underage Drinking

boob hater

Tube Smuggler

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

Tube Smuggler

Paranoid Member

Tube Smuggler

Paranoid Member

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

Paranoid Member

Tube Smuggler

find me a tampon

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

The Fresno Kid

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

Turbo Monkey

boob hater

boob hater

Attention K Mart Shoppers

Herpes!

Master Dildoist

Paranoid Member

The Spooninator

Tirelessly Awesome

Paranoid Member

Herpes!

Choir Boy

Choir Boy

Monkey Turbo

Choir Boy

Monkey Turbo

Master Dildoist

Monkey Turbo

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!

Master Dildoist

Tube Smuggler

The Fresno Kid

Master Dildoist

Monkey

Tube Smuggler

Tube Smuggler