Now. Why not?
Universal Healthcare
- Thread starter blue
- Start date
Americans don't deserve it.
I know you don't care much for me (no worries here), and that you don't trust sources outside of unknown Lib bloggers, but open your mind and check this out:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv3n1.pdf
If for no other reason, because Canadians will have no place to go to get necessary treatment.
Sweet, more nonsense.
First of all, healthcare in Canada falls under the jurisdiction of each individual province. The systems are completely different in each province, so there is no "Canadian Healthcare". There is a health act which outlines certain responsibilities and obligations which are the minimal standard for each province.
Our system here locally is broken, as wait times for non essential care can be daunting, but you can always get treatment. It is much faster in other provinces.
Just ask the guy with various recent Xrays, MRIs and plenty of broken and torn body parts who happens to live there. Total wait for an MRI - 3 days. I didn't have to worry about losing my house over it either.
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Only if I get to define Universal.
Okay, so this anti-government propagana?
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/15/waittimes-fraser.html
Maybe not CA,
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10508986
but a common theme with socialized medicine systems, is wait time.
As for losing your house over medical expenses, that is why God created medical insurance. (please note the humor)
If you read your own links, you will see they are for "therapeutic" treatment. Any emergency or other diagnotisc treatment is available instantly, as I pointe dout if you woudl actually read what was in front of you.
I also mentioned that wait times are high and that the system is broken. As mentioned, treatment is still available, and your point was nonsense.
You really do practice cognitive dissonance don't you? Just ignore the facts in front of you, and mumble incoherent party lines. Awesome. Off to ignore list you go. Let me know when you go back to school or learn to debate with things other than party line talking points.
Also, a massive amount of Americans live below the poverty line and can barely afford to eat. I am pretty sure health care is not high on their list of things to spend their next $40 on.
I also mentioned that wait times are high and that the system is broken. As mentioned, treatment is still available, and your point was nonsense.
You really do practice cognitive dissonance don't you? Just ignore the facts in front of you, and mumble incoherent party lines. Awesome. Off to ignore list you go. Let me know when you go back to school or learn to debate with things other than party line talking points.
Also, a massive amount of Americans live below the poverty line and can barely afford to eat. I am pretty sure health care is not high on their list of things to spend their next $40 on.
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Well he IS from Vashon Island......it's like WA state's Alaska....
Sorry, my bad. I assumed that the NZ article titled "Waiting time doubles for heart surgery " actually was about heart surgery.
In the U.S. it is illegal for someone to turned away for emergency care because of income. Please note this is not always the case, especially if you have Michelle Obama on your staff. http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1122691,CST-NWS-hosp23.article
In decades past, the poor and sick in our nation have not been dying on the sidewalk. There have always been (and always will be) charity care.
"She attributed the sharp increase in waiting times at Auckland Hospital, which takes heart bypass patients from Auckland and Northland, to a shortage of nurses in the intensive care unit and changes in angioplasty, a less-invasive treatment for narrowed heart arteries."
:huh:
i'm game for basic universal healthcare for CITIZENS. upgraded insurance should be available for a premium to those who can afford it to avoid wait times through private doctors but, even i, find it sad that kids born in this country don't have basic insurance.
I'd support it if it included a complete overhaul of medical system, at least when it comes to finances. The system is so screwed up just having the gov pay for people as things are would be a complete disaster. If things got fixed and universalized it would probably end up being less of a burden on the economy and be better for everyone. We lose jobs overseas in many cases simply because employers find health insurance too expensive. Of course a lot of wealthy middle-men would lose their jobs so it will never ever happen.
Emergency care is EXTREMELY expensive, and in a country where 50% of bankruptcies are at least partially due to health care costs, can we afford to leave people uninsured?
The CATO Institute has the journalistic quality of used toilet paper, and gives a horrible name to libertarianism.
You were talking about Canada, not NZL. Once again, hen faced witha ctual facts, you attempt to chance the subject.
You suck at debate and political discourse. You are great are having verbal diarrhea of official party talking points though.
Illegal, but good luck ever getting out of the hole you're thrown into by the bills, especially if you're poor. I don't understand why saying "Well, the ER will take them!" is a valid excuse for this sh!t. Emergency care yes (that will put you in debt for life), but no preventative care or treatment for chronic illnesses. What are the uninsured supposed to do if they have cancer? Respiratory illnesses? Heart disease? Die?
Hell, this isn't even limited to the poor (remember, it's their own fault!) these days. Many middle-class families are unable to afford insurance. Even when you DO have insurance, it may or may not cover treatment, even things that will save your life.
I posted after my girlfriend wrecked on her bike (don't know if she got hit or not) going between her jobs Friday afternoon. She was taken by ambulance to the ER, and she suffered a severe concussion and torn rotator cuff in her shoulder. When she was first wheeled in and I was there, she kept asking me the same three questions in her amnesia. Where she was, why she was there, and if she had health insurance. She doesn't. No individual provider in the country will touch her with a 10 foot pole for under $350 a month, as she has had extensive back surgery when she was a teenager and there are lingering issues. She was dropped by Medicaid when she turned 18. She's looking at a ~$4000 hospital bill. She's a 20 year old pre-med student that makes little more than $1000 a month working, going to school, and barely breaking even...what the hell is she supposed to do? There really aren't any options unless you're old or have children.
I sat by her bed and cried.
Someday I hope you're rendered destitute with a severe medical problem so you can experience what it's like to be the bitch of a medical system and country hijacked by the profiteers that you so adore and love. Gain some empathy, and go fvck yourself.
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Blue your forgetting the part where if your poor in America it's your fault, and anything bad that results from it you had coming for being so lazy.
fixed, tyra
manimal nailed it.
samirol blew it (you dare not curse the fount of wisdom & escape being smote)
vibiker should get the custom title vashonista (for funzies)
Yeah just let the non-citizens die, they're worthless and don't deserve it..... idiot.
look quimdigger, it's not like the welsh are going to get in expensive car accidents while spending their strong dollar here & go untreated in the er
he's obviously alluding to those who live in the shadows among us & get their primary healthcare for their entire families from our system, w/o ever demonstrating any attempt to pay for it. gee, i wonder what made them think they could get away w/ it?
Probably the same thing that lets Tyson foods and every farm owner in California get away with using them as cheap labor that they don't have to pay payroll taxes on...
only americans get the human rights people!
yep, plenty of suck to go around
Why should American citizens have to pay for healthcare for people who are in the country illegally? I understand that the immigration system in the USA is broken and in complete shambles. I understand that these people get expoited and work beow minimum wage and yet still pay taxes much of the time. This is their choice, as is coming to the USA in the first place.
However, I also understand that when you climb a fence/cross a desert/enter in the trunk of a car, that you KNOW what you are doing is illegal. They should expect nothing more than deportation at the Govt's earliest convenience.
As a Canadian, I pay HUGE taxes, why should that money go to helping people who are here illegally when the health system here is already taxed to it's limit?
When I lived in the USA i did it legally. It was a huge pain in my ass and I could have easily gotten around it, but I did everything by the book.
However, I also understand that when you climb a fence/cross a desert/enter in the trunk of a car, that you KNOW what you are doing is illegal. They should expect nothing more than deportation at the Govt's earliest convenience.
As a Canadian, I pay HUGE taxes, why should that money go to helping people who are here illegally when the health system here is already taxed to it's limit?
When I lived in the USA i did it legally. It was a huge pain in my ass and I could have easily gotten around it, but I did everything by the book.
C
curtix
Guest
Who could handle all the claims for the entire universe?
You don't, as far as I know. I think the Province bills you at their regular rate if you're not a Canadian citizen or you haven't been resident in the country long enough. If I recall correctly, Alberta lets you come onto their system immediately, but BC makes you purchase private insurance until you've been in Canada for at least 3 months, even if you're a citizen.
Ditto on the pain in the ass part. People really have no idea. The funny thing is that the INS (at least in Southern California) seems to be staffed almost exclusively with immigrants who have a rather tenuous grasp of the English language. I guess I'm not their target market. I remember being the only white guy in the waiting room in Santa Ana.
no, that's not what i said. we would never refuse medical aid, however, being here completely illegally without any sort of visa at all should not entitle you to a free ride on anything, be it mexican,canadian,german, san franciscan......
a little analogy for you:
lets say some dude comes to my house one night and says, "sir, i'm in dire straits and my family needs help because our home town is in shambles, could you please provide some food and shelter for us?" sure, i would be glad to help. so the next month, another man comes to my house and says, "hey, i heard that you give out free food and clothes if we're having a tough time....so can i get my free food and clothes now?" my reply would sound a lot like a shotgun racking a round in the chamber.
do you see the difference?
i seem to recall a pretty hefty medical bill from a suture i received while fishing in canada as a teenager. why should canadians pay for my medical services when i don't pay into their system. the same goes for us. the question you posed was about universal healthcare, not worldwide healthcare.
Having recently supervised the birth of nephew number 1 in London I can now say I've got a fairly good handle on the pro and cons of medical care in 3 countries. In NHS England the staff were hit and miss friendliness-wise, facilities for visitors sparse, buildings rambling but the care was absolutely gold-plated first class. No doubt about that.
Here in Japan US$300 a month insurance gets us (a family of four) everything. When I busted my shoulder the local hospital had me in the MRI within 30 minutes. Obviously a high standard here as well.
In Australia you can (and many do) pay for a higher level of care (or rather coddling as the doctors are all trained at the same places) but for the have-nots the publicly funded care is again of the highest quality.
Universal health care works well for most of the people, most of the time. I doubt that many people in the 3 countries I've mentioned reckon they'd be better off under an American type system.
Here in Japan US$300 a month insurance gets us (a family of four) everything. When I busted my shoulder the local hospital had me in the MRI within 30 minutes. Obviously a high standard here as well.
In Australia you can (and many do) pay for a higher level of care (or rather coddling as the doctors are all trained at the same places) but for the have-nots the publicly funded care is again of the highest quality.
Universal health care works well for most of the people, most of the time. I doubt that many people in the 3 countries I've mentioned reckon they'd be better off under an American type system.
You are absolutely correct on the first point, I was speaking hypothetically. As in why non citizens (illegals) get free US care. Sorry if that wasn't clear!
You traveled halfway around the world to take a peek at your sister's snatch?
I knew you were a sicko, but Christ, Japan must be rubbing off on you more than is healthy...
i thought it was to show her his frenulum piercing & matching foreskin coinpurse
Steady on there mucus, I wasn't in the room streaming to YouTube. It was a long f*cking night in that hospital though let me tell you. 36 hour labour, born 6am 08/08/08. The Olympic marathon looked like a stroll in the park after seeing what my sister went through.
Methinks the lady doth protest too much...
My sister was alright, she's already talking about having another one, it was me and my poor old mum that were cactus, it was just neverending, pair of blouses we were. I spose the old girl has an excuse as she's 63 but I'm just all poof. My kids were 8 hours each. Far more civilised.
Universal care goes a little too far. We should at least limit things to this solar system.
Actually the US already has universal health care for the lower income bracket. Every state in the country has a program that provides FREE (or close to it) health care to families making less than around $36K per year.
All they have to do is sign up.
In CA it's called Healthy Families, names are different by state:
http://www.healthyfamilies.ca.gov/hfhome.asp
Isn't roughly TEN PERCENT of Mexico's population in the US? Think about that one.
Um, no.
This covers only children who slide between the Medical gap and being "wealthy" enough to be privately insured.
Like I said before...unless you're old or have kids (or ARE a kid - also, a qualifier for Medical/Medicaid is that you're essentially destitute), you're pretty fvcked. You haven't been paying attention.