No...that's someone who is still in college....The mighty White Ivory tower...Originally posted by 911
Finally... someone who "get's it".
University of Texas may force students to take course in "DIVERSITY"
- Thread starter BurlyShirley
- Start date
LOL...you don't know how right you are...Its not my fault the class was at 8 a.m. I just couldn't seem to wake up before nineOriginally posted by 911
You're just bitter because you failed "diveristy 101"
how is giving someone a choice being narrow minded, stubborn, old fashioned, and unable think outside the box?Originally posted by 911
You're one of those narrow-minded conservatives, aren't you?
stubborn, old fashion, unable to think outside the box?
...and my heart's just fine, thank you.
Perhaps it's the brainwashed youth of today (not unlike yourself) that propogate the theories that "if you force it, they will learn"?
It's the youth of today (not unlike yourself) that seem to be unable to think for themselves and exercise COMMON SENSE (again I say, it IS the missing link!)
Poll the students who demonstrate at any given function (politcal, environmental, etc...) and ask them what they are protesting... the majority will give you a regurgitated answer, spoon fed to them by the leader of which ever coalition is staging the protest... further more, if (those same students) asked why they feel the way they do about said issues, and feel the need to demonstrate there... you tend to get a blank stare and a lot of "umm, well, because... umm... " and once again recite the scripted answers they've been spoon fed. (now don't get me wrong, not every person who demonstrates is a mindless bungling puppet, but the majority are... thus proving my point)
so back to your quote... again i ask, how is giving someone a choice being narrow minded, stubborn, old fashioned, and unable think outside the box?
Isn't "pro-choice" one of the bench mark stipulations of broadening ones views? is it not the for-front of todays social norms, not one that's thought to be old fashioned? and again, giving one a choice... while I'm honestly trying to fathom how this can be consrtued as not being able to "think outside the box"... well perhaps your're right, because I can't see how the two coincide??? i guess I'm guilty of that one...
also...
the "bleeding heart liberal... " comment had nothing to do with the "young naive... " comment. you're absolutely right, they apply to both sides. The point I was trying to make was that no matter which side you choose, being young, still in school, etc... you still have a lot to learn about life. Come see me in 10, 15, 20 years... and let's see if you still feel the same way about everything then as you do now?
What if they did it this way:
When I was in high school, you could challenge the diploma exam. This meant that a native French speaker didn't have to take all 3 years of French class (which would be pretty pointless, right?)
If you passed, you got credit for the course. Do the same thing here...or you could make it super simple and just ask to see a passport. If you have one, you don't have to take the class. If you don't, welcome to Early Indonesian history 101...
When I was in high school, you could challenge the diploma exam. This meant that a native French speaker didn't have to take all 3 years of French class (which would be pretty pointless, right?)
If you passed, you got credit for the course. Do the same thing here...or you could make it super simple and just ask to see a passport. If you have one, you don't have to take the class. If you don't, welcome to Early Indonesian history 101...
Think outside the box! If you spoke French really well, you'd have gotten laid in high school from 20-30 of your favorite female french classmates
btw, I think y'all are just arguing to argue. That, or you somehow gots yo panties all waded up for no reason.
Ok... you called me a bleeding-heart liberal and followed up with a string of classic liberal stereotypes. I retorted by calling you a conservative and followed with typical conservative stereotypes. I thought it was clear that I wasn't being serious... and that I was just playing off your comment. Again, of course I understand that any of those terms could be applied to someone of any political ideology. Stop trying to construe what was a joke into an attack. I didn't mean to offended you, but again, you started with the slanderous statements.Originally posted by DHRacer
how is giving someone a choice being narrow minded, stubborn, old fashioned, and unable think outside the box?
Perhaps it's the brainwashed youth of today (not unlike yourself) that propogate the theories that "if you force it, they will learn"?
It's the youth of today (not unlike yourself) that seem to be unable to think for themselves and exercise COMMON SENSE (again I say, it IS the missing link!)
Poll the students who demonstrate at any given function (politcal, environmental, etc...) and ask them what they are protesting... the majority will give you a regurgitated answer, spoon fed to them by the leader of which ever coalition is staging the protest... further more, if (those same students) asked why they feel the way they do about said issues, and feel the need to demonstrate there... you tend to get a blank stare and a lot of "umm, well, because... umm... " and once again recite the scripted answers they've been spoon fed. (now don't get me wrong, not every person who demonstrates is a mindless bungling puppet, but the majority are... thus proving my point)
so back to your quote... again i ask, how is giving someone a choice being narrow minded, stubborn, old fashioned, and unable think outside the box?
Isn't "pro-choice" one of the bench mark stipulations of broadening ones views? is it not the for-front of todays social norms, not one that's thought to be old fashioned? and again, giving one a choice... while I'm honestly trying to fathom how this can be consrtued as not being able to "think outside the box"... well perhaps your're right, because I can't see how the two coincide??? i guess I'm guilty of that one...
also...
the "bleeding heart liberal... " comment had nothing to do with the "young naive... " comment. you're absolutely right, they apply to both sides. The point I was trying to make was that no matter which side you choose, being young, still in school, etc... you still have a lot to learn about life. Come see me in 10, 15, 20 years... and let's see if you still feel the same way about everything then as you do now?
All I was ever trying to acknowledge in this thread is that a serious college-level course that delt with some aspect of diversity could be a useful addition to a university's core curriculum. What does that have to do with me being a "young, naive" college student? Why do I have to "learn a lot about life" to be able to say what would improve a school's educational program. If anything, I would have a better idea than most people seeing how I'm currently a student. I find it hard to believe you're more in touch with today's student population than I am.
And I'm curious as to how exactly I'm "brainwashed", lack common sense, and am unable to think for myself? Stop trying to place yourself on some sort of pedestal because you've had "life experience"... as if I've lived in an f-ing bubble in the clouds all my years.
Yeah yeah, you didnt answer any of the questions though. I dont want to get into the namecalling stuff though.
No there, Mr. "major university". The question about freedom of choice and FORCING people into learining about diversity.
As for forcing people to learn about diversity like I said earlier it all comes down to how you think universities should be structured. Colleges currently FORCE you to learn a lot of things and a lot of them are far less relevant than diversity. If universities are going to continue to try and give students a broad based education than adding such a course to its core curriculum would make sense. And again, when I say diversity course I mean a serious college-level seminar. Diversity is a broad term and could cover many classes in politics, global studies, economics, etc...
I posed this question earlier:
If thats what you think, then your problem with the university system goes beyond the issues of a diversity course.
- Mr. Major University
well.... yeah
(I'll admit, i was just stoking the fires of debate, I'll try to behave from here on out).and i all fairness to 911, and I don't mean this as a slam (seriously) he is still young and somewhat impressionable and does hold true to a lot of "hopeful", "naive", ideals that the world can be a better place. And before he goes after me for calling him naive... that was meant in a good way, meaning he still has hope for a better world.
I think as we get older, we quickly realize that things are not really ever going to change (in our life times). Our society will need to hit rock bottom before it begins to get better. I think the reason I singled out 911 to debate with, is that, I've been where he's at, and while I've probably grown a little calloused in my views on the world, there's still a flicker of hope that someday, it might get better. I'm a firm believe that life SHOULD be fair, and just, and right. It's not, and probably won't ever be, but that still doesn't change the fact that it "should" be.
I still don't think colleges should "mandate" diversity courses, but could offer them as electives. But who knows what will happen there?
But, yes LO... it's just fun sometimes to argue for the sake of arguing
Imagine if young people started out thinking the world was never going to change? The few who did make it change wouldn't have tried and the rest would've been grumpy old farts by the time they were thirty.
Don't try to force young people to grow up too quickly. Don't educate them on how crappy the world can be. Their energy makes it a better place to live.
hell yeah mutha fvcka!Originally posted by DHRacer
But, yes LO... it's just fun sometimes to argue for the sake of arguing
Most anyone that has been out "in the world" for a few years knows that higher education doesn't teach you much about it. The only way to learn about the world is to experience it, and you won't do that sitting in a diversity class with 30 other 20yo kids who are only thinking about how to increase the amount of alcohol they can consume in one night. Being from Boston, where there are over 20 "institutions of higher learning" in a 10mi radius, I always get a big kick out of idealistic students who think they are learning important things about life by sitting in a sociology class. . They're always out handing out leaflets and letting everyone around know how they feel about the world....good stuff.
As far as useless classes go I think diversity is right up there. I myself had the pleasure of being forced to take a class on theatrical set design to get my EE degree and let me tell you, I'm a much better person for it, what a waste of time and money. I went to the school to learn about electronics, not the theater....if I wanted to learn about the theater then I'd go to the theater; and if I want to learn about diversity I'd go to the ghetto :devil:
don't get me wrong, I'm a strong believer that we need liberal arts majors.....who else is going to get me my fries?
. They're always out handing out leaflets and letting everyone around know how they feel about the world....good stuff.As far as useless classes go I think diversity is right up there. I myself had the pleasure of being forced to take a class on theatrical set design to get my EE degree and let me tell you, I'm a much better person for it
, what a waste of time and money. I went to the school to learn about electronics, not the theater....if I wanted to learn about the theater then I'd go to the theater; and if I want to learn about diversity I'd go to the ghetto :devil: don't get me wrong, I'm a strong believer that we need liberal arts majors.....who else is going to get me my fries?
True, I am in college, however I don't think that's a bad thing and it isn't going to discount my opinion. You saying that college students are naive is like me saying that people who have been working the same job for 25 years are stubborn and resistant to change. There is some truth in both. It's cool if I'm considered naive, personally I want to keep my "youthful energy" and hope that I keep it for the rest of my life.
So I'm going to keep my naive view and believe that a few people with the right ideas can change the world and hell, if it doesn't happen, at least I die happy.
In all honesty there isn't much that the U of Texas can do to make the students learn from a diversity course, but I think that integrating an element of culture to their studies is going to do a whole hell of a lot more for their lives than Calc 101. I'll tell you right now, I won't remember my Math requirment in 5 years, but I'll never forget the friends I made and the people I met building houses in Mexico. A little traveling outside our culture would do most students I know pretty good. Too many depressed people hanging out on campus who can't see past the tip of their Abercrombie and Fitch visors(not speaking literally or anything).
The Ito
I like how college kids (especially the idealistic hippie types) think so globally all the time, yet still take the time to bash other college kids for wearing 'Abercrombie'. Not pointed directly at you Ito, cause you've made some good points around here...but its pretty hilarious how big a role "fashion" still plays in college kids lives when they're supposed to be thinking so big. Its hilarious. I mean, you see dredlocks and smell patchouli..hey there's anti-war, pro-pot, pro-diversity, anti-bush, bleeding-heart crowd. Its every bit as much a uniform as 'Abercombie' yet the hippies are so much better in their own minds because the anti-man. Give me a break.
I can agree with that. Doing service work outside teh US (heck even in the US) is much better than a course on "cultural diversity" will be.
I haven't traveled far by many peoples standards. If you drew a triangle from Tijuana(sp?) to Whistler and east to MN I have seen much of it and traveled through it a few times. I have dabbled in PA(mostly the Pokenos(sp?) but Philly too) and LA(New Orleans)
I wouldn't call myself worldly
but I took Tijauna for it's face value. There was one side of a valley filled with mansions across from dirt floor shacks and burnt out cars on the opposite side. An elderly mexican woman spit on a young blonde couple walking in front of my family when we turned off the "tourist" street in town. The lady said nothing but spit on the perky blonde girl as she walked by. I saw poverty first hand (evenif only in Tijuana) and it struck a cord....especially when our taxi driver (really cool guy) giving the tour of the city gave us a cultural lesson as went. He was not an afluent man. we got a flat tire in a "not so good" part of town...where a half block away happened to be a 31 flavors icecream shop (the damndist thing) so my mother little brother and I had icecream while my father helped the taxi driver change the tire...in almost nascar pace....except the jack (like 4x4 guys hang off their roll bars, the ones that jacks stuff WAY up there) was hung up on the bumper and they couldn't get it off. After only a few moments with little progress the taxi driver pushed the car forward and twisted the bumper to hell.
He promptly pulled up to the front of the store and we all jumped in side. Subtle enough for me to know that this local didn't want to spend anymore time in that area than he had to.Also noticed a young boy (maybe my age or a little younger) in a police uniform directing traffic on the tourist street. That was interesting to a pre teen. Also the kids crying and begging for money at the customs crossing....standingin garbage cans, etc. Where an adult walked by and collected the $ they had and left them there to collect more.
made me a little cynical.But we shouldn't have to go to another country to experience different cultures....often we neglect our own back yards for culture.
Dman I am in a ramble'n mood today. Sorry
:I hear you, but we have to pick on something, right?Originally posted by BurlySurly
I like how college kids (especially the idealistic hippie types) think so globally all the time, yet still take the time to bash other college kids for wearing 'Abercrombie'. Not pointed directly at you Ito, cause you've made some good points around here...but its pretty hilarious how big a role "fashion" still plays in college kids lives when they're supposed to be thinking so big. Its hilarious. I mean, you see dredlocks and smell patchouli..hey there's anti-war, pro-pot, pro-diversity, anti-bush, bleeding-heart crowd. Its every bit as much a uniform as 'Abercombie' yet the hippies are so much better in their own minds because the anti-man. Give me a break.
You are right though and looking at it I have to say I was heistant at putting that last bit in. In the last two years I've learned alot at school, but what takes that longest is realizing that someone dressing a certain way doesn't always mean they fit into a category...me bashing someone for A&F isn't right. I've picked up on some of the subtelties of personalities in the past quarter, in fact one of the most profound things I've heard all quarter was yesterday from a girl in a A&F outfit in my Women and Lit class.
The structure of this class is not traditional in any way, it is less lecture and more discussion. This is probably why I have a different view on a diversity class than other seem to have. In my opinion such a class should not be a lecture style, it needs to be a round table where students discuss their opinions and conversation topics is somewhat unstructured. It doesn't open your eyes just to the outside world, but to the people around you. Rather than just having that "hottie with the thong showing in the corner" you have a person sitting next to you who shares her conservative view points on gay marriage(taking examples from last weeks class). When something like this happens you gain insight into the views around you, they become something legitimate. Rather than being spouted at you by someone with a PHD you have peers expressing themselves next to you.
Hopefully U o/T has a similar idea on what this class should be. Opening up the classroom to discussion would be infinitely more enlightening than reading a bunch of lecture notes. It's also enjoyable. There aren't many arenas were a student on campus can voice their opinion safely. Being from California I know that my school is very liberal, the teachers are liberal, and the majority of students are liberal. Still, I've seen opinions changed when conservative-minded students open up their mouths. It isn't about just learning pro-this or anti-that, but having a comfortable ground on which to express ideas. At best it will give students an open forum of peers, at the worst it becomes a lecture on being politically correct.
It's something that probably should be experimented with. Making it a requirment right away seems hasty, introducing the program and letting it grow naturally would probably be more beneficial to the school. If it crashes then let it be done with, hopefully though there are some dedicated people behind it.
Rhino, your last line is very correct. As much as I loved the TJ trip I plan on doing a similar trip next year, but keeping it in the US.
The Ito
I can relate. i went to college in Chicago and got to work with kids in the Projects on the weekends. Let me tell you something. There isn't anything in the world that will make you appreciate EVERYTHING you have and not take a single thing for granted, than walking into a high-rise ghetto project building and seeing the how these kids live. I wouldn't trade my time there for anything... THAT was the biggest life lesson i've ever had.
And not to beat a dead horse... that's not the kind of thing you'll ever learn in a diversity class. you just won't.
As a healthy alternative, why not offer more social outreach "clubs" that students could get involved in, and possible get credit for?
something like that, in my opinion, would be far more valuable to one's outlook on life, than sitting in a class reading about it.
okay, here's another topic to see what people think... why should we be so concerned about rebuilding and supporting all these other countries when we haven't even taken the time to clean up "our own backyard"? I guess I've always wondered why we are the only country to increase our national deficit in supporting other countries that whom, i sincerely doubt would be there for us, if were ever in the same situation... perhaps we could use that money to help people in our own country and start making these "little orphan Oliver" countries start working out their own problems instead of always asking the US for more.
Now, let me defend this by saying I FULLY realize that there are a lot of countries that cannot support themselves for what ever reasons and that there is always some disaster that requires some country to be rebuilt... but it's time to make them start holding their own.
How come we as Americans get to vote on our Presidents, on Laws, on so many things... and yet we don't get to vote on whether we want to help these countries or not? Doesn't seem right.
Well, if you're talking about Iraq, I'd say we have an obligation to clean things up and help out because we happened to be the ones who blew the place up.
As far as international aid goes, the US is first or second in the estimates I've seen when it comes to overall amount. (Japan being the other nation up there.)
Break it down by $/GDP or per capita, however, and the figures tell a slightly different story:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_don_cap
If you don't want aid going anywhere, I'd suggest voting for your friendly local libertarian candidate. They should be able to help you out.
No, not necessarily speaking about Iraq specifically, just all the aid that gets doled out in general. And i'm not saying that aiding other countries is a totally bad thing, but when it increases your national deficit, and you have issues in your own country that need to be dealt with... i think that our priorities need to be looked at a bit more.