[RMR]

I've been running a 888 RC2X since 2007 and it's been so good to me, but I now have the opportunity to get a new 2009 40 for a scandalously low price. I've spent all day looking over reviews and discussions of both products, but there's not much in the way of direct comparison.

The 888 is so well sealed that the dust on my stanctions doesn't even get sticky with oil and the fork only needs service once per year (even then, it probably doesn't need it). It would hurt to give up this level of reliability, but I'll do it if there's a world of better damping out there that I've yet to discover.

On the other hand, dampers aren't brain surgery and there's no reason a damper that came out in 2006 is inherently inferior to one from just three years later. Maybe the performance is close enough that I should stick with my VERY trusty 888.

So, what do you think: Keep the 888 or replace it and why do you feel that way? Thanks!

 

[William42]

The 888rc2x is without a doubt more reliable then pretty much any other fork on the market.

All my friends 40's feel pretty fuggin good and are damn reliable though. They feel better then the 888 (which fall through their travel then ramp up hard, doesn't feel great on the fast stuff or rocky stuff imo, just good on the hucks). The 40 smooths out the trail and takes the big stuff alot better without falling over the front end!

But the 888 feels pretty rad too, and will feel the same in 20 years (and still be ridable in 20 years) so if 0 maint. is that important to you, I'd go with the 888.

 

[stepanov]

Don't do it unless you're ok with doing lots of maintenance on your fork. I had a 2006 66 RC2X for two seasons, and I've had a Boxxer team and a new totem with Mission Control DH since then, and I still count that 66 as the best fork I've ever had. Soooo goddamn bomb proof, good dampening and sexy looks. The old Zokes were the best.

 

[RMR]

Thanks for the quick replies.

William42: I'm willing to do the work if it'll give me significantly better performance, but when we're comparing almost zero labour to frequent servicing, the 40 would have to be distinctly better to be worth the trouble. Even by 888 RC2X standards, my fork runs exceptionally clean, tight, and plush. I'm pretty fond of it, but I can't help wondering if progress is marching on without me.

Thanks for the feedback - the more, the better!

 

[William42]

Thanks for the quick replies.

William42: I'm willing to do the work if it'll give me significantly better performance, but when we're comparing almost zero labour to frequent servicing, the 40 would have to be distinctly better to be worth the trouble. Even by 888 RC2X standards, my fork runs exceptionally clean, tight, and plush. I'm pretty fond of it, but I can't help wondering if progress is marching on without me.

Thanks for the feedback - the more, the better!

Well, its no boxxer. I rebuild my boxxer once ever 3-4 weeks depending on how much I'm riding to make it feel good. My friends 40's are going on years of not servicing them (one 4-5 years now?), and feel really good. They'd be my top choice if I could afford one. I think changing the oil more frequently would be worth it, but I don't think they're impossible to deal with.

 

[davec113]

I think William42 is right on. A friend has an '06 888, I just got a '09 40. The 40 is way more comfortable for me due to what William42 described, it is more controlled but less "plush" in the mid-stroke. The 888 feels undersprung and underdamped in comparison.

 

[DirtyMike]

No matter what fork you have, you should be changing the oil more frequently than every couple years, or even once a year.... I change out the oil on my 66 four or five times a year. So here is what I think

Keep the 888, replace the pil and seals, play with your oil height a bit, You can change and control your ramp up alot better that way. The 888 you haveis a great fork to have, and like others have said, very reliable.

No matter what fork you have, they should be maintained on a regular basis.

Both are good options, but why change if you like what you already ahve

 

[William42]

Both are good options, but why change if you like what you already ahve

The point is he might like something alot better. He's looking for input.

I get alot more of that "pillowy feel" with the 40, where the 888 tends to feel more like not only am I tipping over the front end, its also harsher.

 

[FarkinRyan]

I got a nearly mint 888RC2X on the 'new' second hand bike I bought at the start of last season. Just about every ride I went on this year with new people there'd be someone in the group remarking on how much they loved my fork, how much they regretted selling their old one and how much they'd pay me for it if I ever decided to sell it. I even had one guy offer me a straight swap for a set of brand new '10 Boxxer teams.

No dice though, these things are so bomb-proof it's ridiculous. Didn't have to touch them once for the whole season of riding in Whistler/Squamish except to drop them down as low as they can go in the crowns. I'll definitely service them properly over the winter but have no real interest in getting rid of them yet.

If you do sell yours to trade up are you willing to become one of those people who looks longingly at every set of RC2X's you see and offers to make insane deals to get them back?

 

[gemini2k]

No matter what fork you have, you should be changing the oil more frequently than every couple years, or even once a year

Not if you don't ride it.

 

[RMR]

No matter what fork you have, you should be changing the oil more frequently than every couple years, or even once a year.... I change out the oil on my 66 four or five times a year. So here is what I think

Keep the 888, replace the pil and seals, play with your oil height a bit, You can change and control your ramp up alot better that way. The 888 you haveis a great fork to have, and like others have said, very reliable.

No matter what fork you have, they should be maintained on a regular basis.

Both are good options, but why change if you like what you already ahve

I said I change the oil in my 888 once per year, not every two years, and the reason I said it probably doesn't need even that much maintenance is because there's hardly any difference in the performance afterward. The oil looks pretty nasty, though, so I'm sure it's better for the life of the internals.

I've experimented with oil height, spring rates, and oil viscosity. I'm not looking to upgrade because I'm unsatisfied with my current fork or because I haven't been able to figure out how to set it up. As William42 said, I'm looking to find out whether my trusty 888 is still on par with the latest from Fox.

gemini2k: Thanks for the tip. Don't know where I'd be without such sage advice.

FarkinRyan: I hear you, but would I "become one of those people who looks longingly at every set of RC2X's (I) see and offers to make insane deals to get them back" or would I only say that when I'm overhauling the 40, but never look back while I'm riding? Looks like the jury's still out!

 

[DirtyMike]

Not if you don't ride it.

Smart ass....

I said I change the oil in my 888 once per year, not every two years, and the reason I said it probably doesn't need even that much maintenance is because there's hardly any difference in the performance afterward. The oil looks pretty nasty, though, so I'm sure it's better for the life of the internals.
I've experimented with oil height, spring rates, and oil viscosity. I'm not looking to upgrade because I'm unsatisfied with my current fork or because I haven't been able to figure out how to set it up. As William42 said, I'm looking to find out whether my trusty 888 is still on par with the latest from Fox.

!

My point why you should be changing the oil more often.




Now even more so do I think you should stick with what you have seeing how you have already played a bit with oil weight/height and spring rates to suit your needs.....Why change what works.

 

[gemini2k]

gemini2k: Thanks for the tip. Don't know where I'd be without such sage advice.

Smart ass....

I'm just lashing out at the world cause my family is making me want to blow my brains out. My life is just so awful ATM

 

[RMR]

My point why you should be changing the oil more often.

I was worried about the appearance of the oil the first time this happened, so, the next time, I changed it after a couple months. It looked almost as bad as when I'd waited a year, so now I don't stress over some grimy oil.

I mostly avoid riding in wet conditions, my seals work astoundingly well, and I wipe my stanchions with my gloves every time I stop (which doesn't even get my gloves oily after a couple days of doing this - that's how well this 888 is running). Don't worry, I'm not abusing the fork.

 

[RMR]

I'm just lashing out at the world cause my family is making me want to blow my brains out. My life is just so awful ATM

So maybe you should get out for a ride!

 

[gemini2k]

So maybe you should get out for a ride!

Trust me, I'm counting the days till I leave Chicago and head back to SB. I'm dying here.

 

[DirtyMike]

I'm just lashing out at the world cause my family is making me want to blow my brains out. My life is just so awful ATM

Hold it together, its almost over. You can do it

I was worried about the appearance of the oil the first time this happened, so, the next time, I changed it after a couple months. It looked almost as bad as when I'd waited a year, so now I don't stress over some grimy oil.

I mostly avoid riding in wet conditions, my seals work astoundingly well, and I wipe my stanchions with my gloves every time I stop (which doesn't even get my gloves oily after a couple days of doing this - that's how well this 888 is running). Don't worry, I'm not abusing the fork.

Thats how My 66 is. I have replaced teh seals twice since I have owned it, not because they were leaking, but just because of time.


Really though, to each their own, I have seen some people go massive amounts of time, and some that do not.....

 

[RMR]

I have seen some people go massive amounts of time, and some that do not.....

The last time I overhauled the fork, a friend did his 888 at the same time. His had been abused for two or three years since the last service and the oil was black, smelly sludge. The fork didn't feel much different afterward, though that may have been because a VF never feels especially good.

So...back to the original topic. Anyone else have thoughts on whether the 888 RC2X is still keeping pace with the 2009+ 40 RC2?

 

[djjohnr]

The 40 damping adjustments are essential in my opinion. Track have lots of braking or tight cornering? Run more low speed compression damping to minimize brake dive and keep the chassis stable. High speed and rocky? Run less high speed compression. Buffed out with lots of hits? Add more low and high speed compression. You can't do that with the RC2X. The damping in my 09 40 is very smooth, no indexed feel at the low to high speed transition point. It's the best fork I've ever owned.

 

[slowmtb]

I've been running a 888 RC2X since 2007 and it's been so good to me, but I now have the opportunity to get a new 2009 40 for a scandalously low price. I've spent all day looking over reviews and discussions of both products, but there's not much in the way of direct comparison.

The 888 is so well sealed that the dust on my stanctions doesn't even get sticky with oil and the fork only needs service once per year (even then, it probably doesn't need it). It would hurt to give up this level of reliability, but I'll do it if there's a world of better damping out there that I've yet to discover.

On the other hand, dampers aren't brain surgery and there's no reason a damper that came out in 2006 is inherently inferior to one from just three years later. Maybe the performance is close enough that I should stick with my VERY trusty 888.

So, what do you think: Keep the 888 or replace it and why do you feel that way? Thanks!

What have you got to lose ?

1) The 40 is scandalously low $$$ - they have good resale if you need to move it ( eg: it wasn't your cup of tea after all ).
2) You didn't mention selling the 888, so put it in the corner "just in case"
3) After the whole exercise YOU will know what works out

If you have the coin to spare then go for it.

Win = win IMO

 

[RMR]

What have you got to lose ?

1) The 40 is scandalously low $$$ - they have good resale if you need to move it ( eg: it wasn't your cup of tea after all ).
2) You didn't mention selling the 888, so put it in the corner "just in case"
3) After the whole exercise YOU will know what works out

If you have the coin to spare then go for it.

Win = win IMO

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Nothing to lose but some time and effort, which isn't so bad when it's in the form of playing with shiny new bike parts.

 

[Biffff]

I've just kinda gone through the same process. I run a 2007 888sl with the PAR Removed. This fork has been 100% reliable since being rebuilt 2 seasons ago, its smooth, light and very adjustable, but I just decided to go for a 2010 40 RC2 as I'm curious to see if it is that much better. My fork should be here in a few weeks,............****ty Canadian winter will keep me from riding it for a few months.
I also have a 2007 66 RC2X on my freeride/trail bike......amazing fork. There isn't a Single crown fork in existence that I would replace it with.
As for the dude that said the 40 Rc2 was superior for its high/low compression adjustments........well he's right they are essential, but don't forget that the RC2X has 2 very effection compression adjustments as well.

My advice is to ge the 2009 40 Rc2.........you're getting a good deal on it right? Keep your trusty 888 for a few months and make up your own mind if its a better fork. You'll have no trouble selling the one you want to part with. Or keep it if you aren't strapped for cash.......its always good to have a spare.

 

[djjohnr]

As for the dude that said the 40 Rc2 was superior for its high/low compression adjustments........well he's right they are essential, but don't forget that the RC2X has 2 very effection compression adjustments as well.

Yeah, I was thinking of my old RC2 which only had one compression adjuster.

 

[davep]

I was worried about the appearance of the oil the first time this happened, so, the next time, I changed it after a couple months. It looked almost as bad as when I'd waited a year, so now I don't stress over some grimy oil.

I mostly avoid riding in wet conditions, my seals work astoundingly well, and I wipe my stanchions with my gloves every time I stop (which doesn't even get my gloves oily after a couple days of doing this - that's how well this 888 is running). Don't worry, I'm not abusing the fork.

It may seem like your dry seals are some extaordinary event, but really they are just working as they should (and as millions of hydraulic products do in all kinds of applications every day). Any current (above botom end) Marz, RS, will work this way. Weeping seals is a sign of something wrong....Fox has just been able to convince the un-informed that their k-mart level sealing system is 'better' simply because people are trained to think more expensive is better.

If you dig around, you will also find that Fox is uniquely able to make forks with stanchions that wear out/through the coating with regular use. Something that no other mfg has brought to the market.

Coincidence or just another 'benefit' ????

 

[buckoW]

The 2009 and 2010 40 doesn't have a lot of the service issues that the older ones had. The rebound doesn't get air in it like the older ones and the damping is very good. If you run your fork dry then of course the stanchions will get rubbed raw. I think William 42 is spot on with the comparison as far as feel.

 

[dilzy]

Owned Fox forks for quite some time and never had issues with stauntions wearing. My 36's are easily the smoothest chassis I've ever felt.

 

[RMR]

It may seem like your dry seals are some extaordinary event, but really they are just working as they should (and as millions of hydraulic products do in all kinds of applications every day). Any current (above botom end) Marz, RS, will work this way. Weeping seals is a sign of something wrong....Fox has just been able to convince the un-informed that their k-mart level sealing system is 'better' simply because people are trained to think more expensive is better.

If you dig around, you will also find that Fox is uniquely able to make forks with stanchions that wear out/through the coating with regular use. Something that no other mfg has brought to the market.

Coincidence or just another 'benefit' ????

Oh I'm well aware that's what seals are supposed to do, but until I see another downhill fork that runs this cleanly, I'm going to keep believing my fork's seals to be very small miracles. Most forks' stanchions are a little oily, but nothing to worry about; I'm sure there's no practical difference between that scenario and my fork's immaculate stanchions, it just reminds me of how incredibly trouble-free my 888 has been.

There's no need to look beyond my riding group to find examples of Fox's removable stanchion coatings. Or "ventilated" lowers. Or Boxxers with "modular, travel-friendly" lowers. And how about Kona's claim that their frames don't lack stiffness, they were designed with advanced lateral suspension to improve traction. I guess a good marketing department is cheaper than a good engineering department.

 

[Viv92]

I've never had issues with the fox stanchions, and this was pre me doing my own maintenance so I only ever got them serviced once a year. They seemed easier to scratch than the rockshox ones but that's a different thing totally. The seals on mine were fine too, lasted ages.

 

[gemini2k]

I guess a good marketing department is cheaper than a good engineering department.

A great scientist once told me "What science can't solve, marketing can"

But yes, by and large MTB suspension products are a joke.

 

[DirtyMike]

It may seem like your dry seals are some extaordinary event, but really they are just working as they should (and as millions of hydraulic products do in all kinds of applications every day). Any current (above botom end) Marz, RS, will work this way. Weeping seals is a sign of something wrong....Fox has just been able to convince the un-informed that their k-mart level sealing system is 'better' simply because people are trained to think more expensive is better.

If you dig around, you will also find that Fox is uniquely able to make forks with stanchions that wear out/through the coating with regular use. Something that no other mfg has brought to the market.

Coincidence or just another 'benefit' ????

So Im not the only one that thinks fox seals are a joke?

For as much as they cost, you would think they could use a better seal

 

[djjohnr]

I guess a good marketing department is cheaper than a good engineering department.

A marketing department's main responsibility is making sure products are being produced that meet customer needs. So in this case shhitty marketing plush shhitty engineering equals shhitty products.

 

[Spahman]

I love how reliabilie my 888 RCx2 is.. it's never leaked oil or anything, but it ramps up WAY to much. It takes the free ride hits well, but I don't do much of that.

A 2002 Shiver felt way better for DH than this fork. A guy told me to adjust the oil levels.. I've tried taking oil out and just ended up messing up the fork.. Can I just pop the top caps off and push on the lowers to drain some oil out?
push out 10ml in each leg?

 

[DirtyMike]

I love how reliabilie my 888 RCx2 is.. it's never leaked oil or anything, but it ramps up WAY to much. It takes the free ride hits well, but I don't do much of that.

A 2002 Shiver felt way better for DH than this fork. A guy told me to adjust the oil levels.. I've tried taking oil out and just ended up messing up the fork.. Can I just pop the top caps off and push on the lowers to drain some oil out?
push out 10ml in each leg?

Lower your oil a bit

 

[RMR]

Spahman,

I don't feel like digging out my service notes, but I believe the factory recommendation is 220 mL of oil per leg and yes, this creates a sharp rise in the spring rate. I've been running 200 mL, if I recall, without problems, but you can't go much lower than that.

The lack of low-speed compression damping means the fork sits low in its travel and is prone to brake dive, but these issues aren't closely related to end-stroke spring rate, so you shouldn't notice a huge difference there. Dial in some bottom-out resistance with the X adjustment to compensate for the reduced end-stroke spring rate and you're good to go.

 

[Biffff]

doesn't the RC2X have a low speed Compression adjustment on the bottom of the right leg??? or is that beginning stroke compression???? Either way I use it on both my forks to firm up things in the beginning stroke it it seems to make the fork run higher in its travel.

 

[DirtyMike]

Spahman,

I don't feel like digging out my service notes, but I believe the factory recommendation is 220 mL of oil per leg and yes, this creates a sharp rise in the spring rate. I've been running 200 mL, if I recall, without problems, but you can't go much lower than that.

The lack of low-speed compression damping means the fork sits low in its travel and is prone to brake dive, but these issues aren't closely related to end-stroke spring rate, so you shouldn't notice a huge difference there. Dial in some bottom-out resistance with the X adjustment to compensate for the reduced end-stroke spring rate and you're good to go.

Well that makes perfect sense, specially seeing how when you call up Marz direct, they will tell you do not go by cc's when you service there forks, if you do it will be overfilled.....something abouthow you cannot open the carts<aside from the evo> and get all the oil out in the first place.

Best way to fill a Marz is to check oil height with it fully compressed and cycled a few times.

 

[Spahman]

Can I just pop the top caps off and push on the lowers to drain some oil out?
push out 10ml in each leg?

no? yes?

 

[SylentK]

Can I just pop the top caps off and push on the lowers to drain some oil out?
push out 10ml in each leg?

no? yes?

Yes. Use something to suck it out like a turkey baster or syringe.

I don't know, my 06 888rc2x has worked flawlessly w/ yearly maintenance. The thing is so tunable, too. I wouldn't mind trying the new Marz, but I think I'll wait 'till 2011. Lots of people run fox. They are always at the MSC races and provide great support. Wish Marz did that.

 

[Spahman]

Yes. Use something to suck it out like a turkey baster or syringe.

I don't know, my 06 888rc2x has worked flawlessly w/ yearly maintenance. The thing is so tunable, too. I wouldn't mind trying the new Marz, but I think I'll wait 'till 2011. Lots of people run fox. They are always at the MSC races and provide great support. Wish Marz did that.

I'm a very light rider... 145 lbs.. That might have something to do with it

 

[DirtyMike]

Can I just pop the top caps off and push on the lowers to drain some oil out?
push out 10ml in each leg?

no? yes?

Exactly, take the tops off, slide the springs out, fully compress the fork, and remove some oil.
If yo ucall Marz tech, tell them what springs you have, and what you weigh, they will give you a suggested oil height..... Talk to Gideon, he is great at this stuff

Yes. Use something to suck it out like a turkey baster or syringe.

I don't know, my 06 888rc2x has worked flawlessly w/ yearly maintenance. The thing is so tunable, too. I wouldn't mind trying the new Marz, but I think I'll wait 'till 2011. Lots of people run fox. They are always at the MSC races and provide great support. Wish Marz did that.

There is actually a tool designed jsut for this, its got a cool little clip that goes on a tube, which goes to a syringe..... you fill the fork, cycle it, then set the clip at the oil height you want....... then just suck it out till it sucks air.....Its easy to mke actualy if you dont want to pay for one. Makes for super easy oil levels.