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Unreleased product photos

binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,151
1,253
NC
Just a comment, and a discussion if you guys keep it civil...

Fraser was not entirely correct. It's not really about ad dollars. Actually, I don't even know if Fox advertises here.

Removing unreleased photos at a company's request is about maintaining relationships. What does that mean? It doesn't mean we lie for them. It doesn't mean to skew a product review, or suppress complaints in the forums, or mislead anyone in any way. It just means we act like we're friends. If a friend comes to you after and says, "dude, I wasn't ready to tell people I'm breaking up with my girlfriend. I don't want people to know yet" - do you keep blabbing because people have a "right" or a "privilege" to know that information? Or do you shut up because it wasn't supposed to get out anyway, and you'd like to cut your friend a break?

If Fox comes to me and says, "Hey, that's unreleased documentation. Can you take it down?" - I have two options. I can tell them to go jump in a lake, which is a viable option. They can't really do anything to me or us. Of course, that destroys our relationship with them. Or, I can be reasonable. I'd say that removing unreleased product photos from a large public forum is a pretty reasonable thing to do.

This maintains our relationship with them - and guess what? That has direct, tangible benefits to all of you. Think about the number of companies over the years who we've had great relationships with, who have had representatives on this board to talk about products with, provide support, and show off new stuff. So we do the reasonable thing, and keep a relationship open. That means we get a couple quotes on the new technology, maybe some better photos than the press release has. Maybe we get a sample of the new product when it comes out.

I'm leaving this thread open for discussion because I like community feedback. Keep it reasonable.
 
binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,151
1,253
NC
BTW, to kidwoo's point, I agree that, if it were me, I'd look at it and be excited people are psyched over our products. But it's not me.
 
CBJ

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
13,085
4,805
Copenhagen, Denmark
I think Fox is a company who needs to better understand the Internet especially the social media part of it and have a dialogue with the customer base instead of worrying about pictures which has been spread all over the Internet already. I think RM should have kept the pictures on the site and told Fox the realities of the Internet. The purpose of RM as I see it is to for its members to share information not to please Fox.
 
binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,151
1,253
NC
CBJ said:
I think Fox is a company who needs to better understand the Internet especially the social media part of it and have a dialogue with the customer base instead of worrying about pictures which has been spread all over the Internet already.
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I agree with you.

The purpose of RM as I see it is to for its members to share information not to please Fox.
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I don't think you read my post. Of course we're not here to please Fox. Go read the post again. Maintaining relationships doesn't mean we're here to please Fox.
 
CBJ

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
13,085
4,805
Copenhagen, Denmark
binary visions said:
I don't think you read my post. Of course we're not here to please Fox. Go read the post again. Maintaining relationships doesn't mean we're here to please Fox.
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If their way of defining a relationship is to control post that way is it a relationship then. I don't see Fox participating in the dialogue here on RM or give anything back to us or have I missed something?
 
bizutch

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,929
24
Over your shoulder whispering
I concur with BV's 1st post. It's RM site and they can do what they want with it. Heck, even if it was a secret drip marketing campaign being paid for by bike companies who COULd specificly control all the information, it's RM's ball and they can play whenever they want and call all the shots.
 
B

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,452
10
binary visions said:
I don't even know if Fox advertises here.
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bizutch said:
even if it was a secret drip marketing campaign being paid for by bike companies
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This was my first thought. I'm not implying there was any involvement with RM or its admins, I just thought it was alittle convienent that the photos got out. Shimano seems to do a good enough job with their skunk testing, it can't be that difficult. Besides, why apply finished decals on something that secret? Santa Cruz has created buzz a couple times with similar tactics, I think as a whole, forum regulars are pretty desensitized to "leaked photos" nowadays anyway.
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
i think Intense does the best job "leaking" their protos.
they come right our with high-res pics and specs and details and answer all of your questions about the new product.
 
R

ride

Monkey
Jan 11, 2005
471
0
Yeah they do, when they're ready to release them.

IH8Rice said:
i think Intense does the best job "leaking" their protos.
they come right our with high-res pics and specs and details and answer all of your questions about the new product.
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William42

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
4,002
754
I can't believe nobody flipped a sh1t over the fact that the fork was on one of the new dw rfx's.
 
binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,151
1,253
NC
CBJ said:
If their way of defining a relationship is to control post that way is it a relationship then. I don't see Fox participating in the dialogue here on RM or give anything back to us or have I missed something?
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Dude, the point is we try to maintain good relationships with many companies. Some are very active and participate in the forums. Fox, actually, provided us with a couple quotes and some extra information on their Kashima coating - beyond the standard press release. Maybe not a big deal, but maintaining good standings is a long-term deal. You don't get to pick and choose; if you burn your bridge, you don't get to go back.

The funny part is when someone posts up a trail that's not supposed to be public, I get inundated with PMs, reps and emails screaming "TAKE IT DOWN, TAKE IT DOWN." If I don't take it down, I get bitched at because it's not "public knowledge" and the people complaining actually experience ramifications.

Oh, but with this, information should be free for all. Right? Everyone should be entitled to all information. As long as it doesn't impact you negatively, of course. As long as it's not your trail or your product on the line.

I don't see this thread on NSMB, by the way, but in any event each board has to choose what they think is important. This is a subjective call. My call, since we were asked nicely, was that it was eminently reasonable that we remove it.

bizutch said:
I concur with BV's 1st post. It's RM site and they can do what they want with it.
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On one hand, I sincerely appreciate the (rare) recognition that nobody is entitled to anything here. But on the other hand I do want people to recognize that I take the community into account in everything I do. When changes are proposed, I make sure to represent the community. When I suggest changes, it's usually because I think you guys will benefit. When I delete something like this, it's because I see a bigger benefit in maintaining a long-term friendship with a company than leaving up leaked photos.

Along that same vein, all of the mods are pretty light with the so-called "censoring." We have been asked to take down a lot of material over the years, and virtually all of it stays up. Had this been a problem, or a complaint, or a safety issue, or any number of things - I would not have removed it.
 
binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,151
1,253
NC
Banshee Rider said:
This was my first thought. I'm not implying there was any involvement with RM or its admins, I just thought it was alittle convienent that the photos got out.
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BTW, I freakin' wish it were something that covert.




HEY BIKE COMPANIES. IF YOU HAVE COOL NEW GEAR THAT YOU WANT ME TO SEE FIRST AND LEAK TO THE PUBLIC, I WOULD LOVE TO DO SO. PLEASE SEND ME THE GEAR AND I WILL TAKE PHOTOS. I WILL EVEN CREATE A NEW USER ACCOUNT AND TAKE PICTURES WITH A BAD CELL PHONE SO IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S SOME SKETCHY EMPLOYEE.

:D
 
CBJ

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
13,085
4,805
Copenhagen, Denmark
binary visions said:
Dude, the point is we try to maintain good relationships with many companies. Some are very active and participate in the forums. Fox, actually, provided us with a couple quotes and some extra information on their Kashima coating - beyond the standard press release. Maybe not a big deal, but maintaining good standings is a long-term deal. You don't get to pick and choose; if you burn your bridge, you don't get to go back.
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Dude, I got the point I just don't agree - nothing wrong with that :thumb:
 
S.K.C.

S.K.C.

Turbo Monkey
Feb 28, 2005
4,096
25
Pa. / North Jersey
I agree with what BV was saying and I think it kind of parallels what I was saying the other day:

Yeah - it's the internet, and once something gets put out there that shouldn't be out there - control is lost, but since this IS an industry site as well as a public one I think dropmachine (and I) were hoping that people would respect this.
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Due to the public nature of this site it's easy to forget that this IS an industry site too... there is a duality here that is pretty transparent but it DOES exist. There are employees from just about every major MTB brand out there who are members here. They don't have "Trek" "Michelin" or "Turner" attached to their names but they all post here and read threads just like everyone else. In addition to this there are a TON of lurkers on this site from the MTB industry who either can't post on forums due to employment contracts OR simply want to remain anonymous and be the proverbial "fly on a wall". Due to these transparencies it is VERY easy to forget industry presence here at RM.

So if someone gets too excited about proto or new product and posts a photo but is asked to take it down - it's done out of respect for the owners of the product in that photo - like what BV was saying. Why? If you're still asking why... (*facepalm*) It's the polite and courteous thing to do out of respect for the industry guys who lurk and post here.

There is a time and a place for everything. Companies are definitely stoked to see people giving positive reactions to new product. But ultimately, it's the companies product and therefore they have a right to control how their product is released.*

* Unless someone disobeys a request by a company and posts pics of unreleased product on the internet - it's at this point that positive control over the product release is lost. The companies right to control the release of their product is taken away.
 
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MinorThreat

MinorThreat

Turbo Monkey
Nov 15, 2005
1,630
41
Nine Mile Falls, WA
CBJ said:
I think Fox is a company who needs to better understand the Internet especially the social media part of it and have a dialogue with the customer base instead of worrying about pictures which has been spread all over the Internet already. I think RM should have kept the pictures on the site and told Fox the realities of the Internet. The purpose of RM as I see it is to for its members to share information not to please Fox.
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The realities of some internet behavior and the trends in social media should still not trump common sense and doing what is right.
 
leprechaun

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
NSMB has it on their homepage!

I'd be pretty bummed if i just payed $10,000 to have a hot release party at my booth at Sea Otter just to have my asshole roommate sneak a photo of my personal bike while i was out getting burritos. (no idea if this actually happened)
 
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