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Upcoming OBAMA tax cut

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,815
8
looking for classic NE singletrack
Seriously, are the Republicans too dumb to see how this is going to play out?

That plan will become obsolete Monday. Sometime early that week, perhaps Monday itself, the president will appear on TV to offer the "Obama tax cut": the fourth biggest tax cut in American history after the Reagan, Kennedy, and George W. Bush tax cuts.

Experts will note that the "Obama tax cut" is basically the 2001 Bush tax cut re-enacted, with benefits for the uppermost brackets lopped off, and probably various redistributive measures packed in for the lower brackets. The plan is already written, we can be sure.
I seriously can't figure out what the GOP end-game is, if they even have one...
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
is this like a product markup of 30% followed by a 'sale' of 25% off?
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,246
2,977
Sleazattle
Tea-tards refuse to vote for any tax increase.

1)Let the country fall off the cliff
2)vote for tax cuts
3)*****
4)Call Obama a Socialist, Nazi, Atheist, Communist, Muslim, Antichrist, Dictator, Kenyan.
5)Angrily shake fist and declare defiant victory.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Tea-tards refuse to vote for any tax increase.

1)Let the country fall off the cliff
2)vote for tax cuts
3)*****
4)Call Obama a Socialist, Nazi, Atheist, Communist, Muslim, Antichrist, Dictator, Kenyan.
5)Angrily shake fist and declare defiant victory.
you people have 'rules for radicals'
we have 'book of eli'
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,025
1,450
AK
I really don't want to lose my job, which is possible if we "fall off the cliff", but you have to admit it's a cunning plan. GOP makes us go off the cliff, ensure we fail, then you can go back and blame the president, because the president is ultimately responsible for anything during, before and after their term. If the country is in the crapper, voters will vote for the opposite party because they are dumb as a rock. I think the GOP is in a pretty dire place right now, and this might be the "best" chance they have at regaining presidential power.
 
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Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,025
1,450
AK
What last time? Our country was better off than when Obama took office with the stock market at 8000. The financial collapse in 2007 was huge, and everything has slowly built back up, hard to do with the two wars, but it has steadily gotten better. Better doesn't mean great, but the effects back in 2007 and especially 6 months later when the ledgers and balance sheets necessitated cuts and layoffs were dramatic, especially for me. I haven't seen anything quite that bad since.
 
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dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,815
8
looking for classic NE singletrack
Huh, so, basically a tax hike that won't affect normal people? Sounds good to me.

What last time? Our country was better off than when Obama took office with the stock market at 8000. The financial collapse in 2007 was huge, and everything has slowly built back up, hard to do with the two wars, but it has steadily gotten better. Better doesn't mean great, but the effects back in 2007 and especially 6 months later when the ledgers and balance sheets necessitated cuts and layoffs were dramatic, especially for me. I haven't seen anything quite that bad since.
It's been generally accepted that while the president was weakened during the debt ceiling negotiations a year and a half ago, the Republicans were hurt FAR worse as most people blamed them. Current polling again shows that if we go over the "fiscal cliff", people will blame the Republicans again...
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
12,725
1,385
Fort of Rio Grande
The financial collapse in 2007 was huge, and everything has slowly built back up, hard to do with the two wars, but it has steadily gotten better. Better doesn't mean great, but the effects back in 2007 and especially 6 months later when the ledgers and balance sheets necessitated cuts and layoffs were dramatic, especially for me. I haven't seen anything quite that bad since.
Wasn't George bush President in 2007?
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
26,877
3,395
Riding the baggage carousel.
It's been generally accepted that while the president was weakened during the debt ceiling negotiations a year and a half ago, the Republicans were hurt FAR worse as most people blamed them. Current polling again shows that if we go over the "fiscal cliff", people will blame the Republicans again...
:stupid:

http://www.nationalmemo.com/president-obama-returns-to-d-c-for-fiscal-cliff-negotiations/
http://www.politicususa.com/americans-blame-congressional-republicans-obama-unemployment.html
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/12/fiscal-cliff-doing-republicans-no-favors


That of course assumes the the "fiscal cliff" is even really a thing. I'm not at all convinced that this is the crisis it's being portrayed as, and in fact think it might not be a bad thing long term to go over it.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
12,725
1,385
Fort of Rio Grande
That of course assumes the the "fiscal cliff" is even really a thing. I'm not at all convinced that this is the crisis it's being portrayed as, and in fact think it might not be a bad thing long term to go over it.
Austerity and tax hikes have yet to pay off in the UK but I can't imagine how reducing spending and paying debt is a bad thing, it's not realistic to expect an ever increasing economy.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
26,877
3,395
Riding the baggage carousel.
Austerity and tax hikes have yet to pay off in the UK but I can't imagine how reducing spending and paying debt is a bad thing, it's not realistic to expect an ever increasing economy.
Heard a piece on NPR this morning that economic growth in the UK for 2012 was 0%. I'm no economist but I believe thats bad. I agree that reducing spending/debt is not a bad thing, but on the other hand I don't know if dracoinian cuts to social welfare programs are a good thing, i.e. Greece.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,815
8
looking for classic NE singletrack
Austerity and tax hikes have yet to pay off in the UK but I can't imagine how reducing spending and paying debt is a bad thing, it's not realistic to expect an ever increasing economy.
Keyes whole principle on this was that in times of a lack of consumer demand, the government had to step in and run a deficit. If the budget was revenue neutral, whatever money that the government spent (positive affect on the economy) would be negated by lack of spending on the consumer side when their taxes went up. Considering that the government is the only entity able to borrow and spend that amount of money needed to revive the economy, they were the ones to do so. Remember, *any* deficit spending was good for the economy... That includes tax cuts, spending increases, or both. GWB was one of the biggest Keynesian presidents that we've ever had.

The flip side (that *all* politicians seem to forget about) was that when the recession/depression was over, Keyes advocated running a surplus through increased taxes and decreased spending. Basically build up the federal balance sheet during boom times to allow for deficit spending during the bust years. NONE of the politicians ever want to do that part of Keynesian economics...
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
some of us are no longer on the road to damascus

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/6/obama-supporters-shocked-angry-new-tax-increases/

Sometimes, watching a Democrat learn something is wonderful, like seeing the family dog finally sit and stay at your command.

With President Obama back in office and his life-saving "fiscal cliff" bill jammed through Congress, the new year has brought a surprising turn of events for his sycophantic supporters.

"What happened that my Social Security withholding's in my paycheck just went up?" a poster wrote on the liberal site DemocraticUnderground.com. "My paycheck just went down by an amount that I don't feel comfortable with. I guarantee this decrease is gonna' hurt me more than the increase in income taxes will hurt those making over 400 grand. What happened?"

Shocker. Democrats who supported the president's re-election just had NO idea that his steadfast pledge to raise taxes meant that he was really going to raise taxes. They thought he planned to just hit those filthy "1 percenters," you know, the ones who earned fortunes through their inventiveness and hard work. They thought the free ride would continue forever.

So this week, as taxes went up for millions of Americans — which Republicans predicted throughout the campaign would happen — it was fun to watch the agoggery of the left.

"I know to expect between $93 and $94 less in my paycheck on the 15th," wrote the ironically named "RomneyLies."

"My boyfriend has had a lot of expenses and is feeling squeezed right now, and having his paycheck shrink really didn't help," wrote "DemocratToTheEnd."

"BlueIndyBlue" added: "Many of my friends didn't realize it, either. Our payroll department didn't do a good job of explaining the coming changes."

So let's explain something to our ill-informed Democratic friends. In 2009, Mr. Obama enacted a "holiday" on the payroll tax deduction from employees' paychecks, dropping the rate from 6.2 percent to 4.2 percent. But like the holidays, the drop ended, and like New Year's, the revelers woke up the next morning with a massive hangover and a pounding head.

"Bake," who may have been trolling the site, jumped into the thread posted Friday. "My paycheck just went down. So did my wife's. This hurts us. But everybody says it's a good thing, so I guess we just suck it up and get used to it. I call it a tax increase on the middle class. I wonder what they call it. Somebody on this thread called it a 'premium.' Nope. It's a tax, and it just went up."

Some in the thread argued that the new tax — or the end of the "holiday," which makes it a new tax — wouldn't really amount to much. One calculated it would cost about $86 a month for most people. "Honeycombe8," though, said that amount is nothing to sneeze at.

"$86 a month is a lot. That would pay for ... Groceries for a week, as someone said. More than what I pay for parking every month, after my employer's contribution to that. A new computer after a year. A new quality pair of shoes ... every month. Months of my copay for my hormones. A new thick coat (on sale or at discount place). It would pay for what I spend on my dogs every month ... food, vitamins, treats."

The Twittersphere was even funnier.

"Really, how am I ever supposed to pay off my student loans if my already small paycheck keeps getting smaller? Help a sister out, Obama," wrote "Meet Virginia." "Nancy Thongkham" was much more furious. "F***ing Obama! F*** you! This taking out more taxes s*** better f***ing help me out!! Very upset to see my paycheck less today!"

"_Alex™" sounded bummed. "Obama I did not vote for you so you can take away alot of money from my checks." Christian Dixon seemed crestfallen. "I'm starting to regret voting for Obama." But "Dave" got his dander up over the tax hike: "Obama is the biggest f***ing liar in the world. Why the f*** did I vote for him"?

Of course, dozens of posters on DemocraticUnderground sought to blame it all (as usual) on President George W. Bush. "Your taxes went up because the leaders need to dig us out of this criminal deficit hole we are in which has been caused because taxes were too low during the Bush years. Everyone has to help by spreading the wealth around a little. Power to the correct people!" posted "Orinoco."

But in fact, it was Mr. Obama who enacted the "holiday," and, to be clear, the tax cut that he pushed throughout the campaign — remember? 98 percent of Americans will get a cut under his plan? — was really the extension of the Bush tax suts. Thus, it was Mr. Obama who raised taxes on millions of Americans, not Mr. Bush.

How many Americans? The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center in Washington put the total at 77.1 percent of all wage earners. In fact, "More than 80 percent of households with incomes between $50,000 and $200,000 would pay higher taxes. Among the households facing higher taxes, the average increase would be $1,635, the policy center said," according to a Bloomberg News article. Hilariously, the tax burden will rise more for someone making $30,000 a year (1.7 percent) than it does for someone earning $500,000 annually (1.3 percent).

A whole new wave of Obama supporters still don't even know: They'll get their first 2013 paychecks on the 15th of the month. So when you're shooting the breeze in the lunchroom with your grumbling co-workers on the 16th, just ask them, "Who'd you vote for in November?" When they say Mr. Obama, just tell them: "Well, you got what you voted for. You did know he was going to raise taxes, right?"

The looks on their faces will be priceless.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
26,877
3,395
Riding the baggage carousel.
My taxes went up 44 dollars a pay period. Doesn't bother me at all. I'm getting at least 44 dollars of enjoyment every two weeks out of watching the right collapse under the weight of its own crazy.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
since this is elvis' bday, i'll assume you get paid weekly, which means your taxes are up 52*44, or $2288 for this year.

you ok w/ that?

really?
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,246
2,977
Sleazattle
since this is elvis' bday, i'll assume you get paid weekly, which means your taxes are up 52*44, or $2288 for this year.

you ok w/ that?

really?
Nope, cut all taxes, cut all discretionary spending and entitlements. Complain about poor people, ****ty education, ****ty roads, masturbate to exorbitantly expensive military equipment.
 

Beef Supreme

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2010
1,436
72
Hiding from the stupid
some of us are no longer on the road to damascus
This is part of the Republican hypocrisy that drives me crazy. Obama's original proposal included an extension of the payroll tax holiday. It was a non-starter for the republicans. It is just another example of the Repubs blaming Obama for something they fought for.

Republicans have the house. They could put forward legislation to extend the payroll tax cut today.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,246
2,977
Sleazattle
Correct me if I am wrong, I am no accountant. Doesn't the payroll tax essentially have a cap limit? Certainly would explain the Republican reluctance to continue it.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Correct me if I am wrong, I am no accountant.
teh wiki says 111th congress had 5 CPAs; info not yet available on 112th

they represent us, but most have only a working knowledge of accounting/economics/business

what could possibly go wrong?
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,246
2,977
Sleazattle
teh wiki says 111th congress had 5 CPAs; info not yet available on 112th

they represent us, but most have only a working knowledge of accounting/economics/business

what could possibly go wrong?

Our congress is equivalent to letting the HR department run a tech company.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,643
396
NC
since this is elvis' bday, i'll assume you get paid weekly, which means your taxes are up 52*44, or $2288 for this year.

you ok w/ that?

really?
Taxes went up by 2%.

The whole measuring-what-the-dollars-buy thing is bull.

You could measure what the rest of your tax dollars buy, or measure how much you spend on coffee in a year, or measure what shopping with coupons vs. not would buy, or whether cutting soda out would have the same effect. It's still only 2%.

All the article you posted demonstrates is that there are ignorant people who vote democrat. Shocker. Some people are ill-informed. There's no Santa Claus, either, Virginia.