Quantcast

Update on Father of Fake Vaccine Science

mykel

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2013
2,038
689
sw ontario canada
Totally OT but a pet peeve....

Why do people say tuna and add fish - tunafish.
We do not say chicken and add fowl or bird chickenpoultry or chickenbird.
nor have I ever heard beefbovine or porkswine or porkboar....

just a wonderin'

michael
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
37,057
3,933
Sleazattle
I know two anti-vaccers. They are the two biggest druggies I know, they will consume any mind altering substance without question or knowing the origins, or manufacturing process. Heavily regulated medications, nope. They also refuse to drink fluoridated water.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
6,168
1,821
Ottawa, Canada
Not sure if this belongs here, but I found it interesting. in the context of the flu vaccine only.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/flu-vaccine-paradox-adds-to-public-health-debate-1.2912790 said:
People who receive flu vaccines year after year can sometimes show reduced protection, an effect that Canadian infectious disease specialists say muddies public health messages for annual flu vaccine campaigns.

During the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, researchers at the B.C. Centre for Disease Control originally thought seasonal flu shots from 2008 might offer extra protection against the new pandemic strain. They were puzzled to find instead, seasonal flu vaccination almost doubled the risk of infection with pandemic flu.

Dr. Danuta Skowronski and her colleagues went on to do five more studies during the summer that showed the same effect in people and in ferrets, which are considered the best animal model of flu.

"This was a unique finding in a unique context of dramatically mismatched vaccine to novel pandemic influenza virus," she said.

She recalled the intense time, struggling to find answers about whether to offer the seasonal as well as pandemic vaccine in the fall. "That was the worst summer I think of my life, work wise."

What was originally called "the Canadian problem" has since been found in a randomized control trial by researchers in Hong Kong, with more supporting evidence from Japan and the U.S.

The paradoxical finding of increased risk of H1N1 infection only occurred during the pandemic.

Blunted protection to seasonal flu
In the 10 years since the B.C. lab invented more sensitive ways to conduct this type of sophisticated immune research, there’s never been an increase in flu illness among those vaccinated compared with the unvaccinated.

But researchers in several countries have found a blunting or "interference" effect between previous seasonal vaccines and reduced levels of vaccine protection a later year for some strains.

Regardless of previous vaccination history, flu shots did protect against flu infections requiring medical care, Huong McLean of the Marshfield Clinic Research Foundation and her colleagues concluded in a September online issue of the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases. Protection was greatest among those who weren’t vaccinated previously.

"People do not have a good explanation for why," said Dr. Michael Gardam, director of infection prevention and control at Toronto's University Health Network.

"The idea basically is that your immune system is occupied elsewhere. It would be like getting the swirling ball of death on your Mac where your operating system is doing something else rather than opening the file."

The end result of both puzzles is the same: more sickness.

Huong said itall points to the need to think about prior vaccination history when estimating vaccine effectiveness.

"These findings are so new, so emerging that policy-makers have not yet had a chance to fully digest them or understand the implications," Skowronski said.

Both Gardam and Skowronski believe the emerging findings should spur the search for a better solution.

"We have kind of hyped this vaccine so much for so long we are starting to believe our own hype. Really, what we should be doing is looking for better vaccines," Gardam said.

In the meantime, public health officials who aim to protect people from flu complications need to grapple with the imperfections of a vaccinegiven every year to a moving target of strains.

"I think it's reasonable that currently the recommendation is to continue, for instance, especially for people who are at high risk, immediate risk of hospitalization or death … For these people, there is a clear and present and real threat that they need to deal with and vaccine is the best way," Skowronski said.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,701
290
VT
Not sure if this belongs here, but I found it interesting. in the context of the flu vaccine only.
There's also a ton of different types of immunizations for the flu - tri, quad, nasal(live), intradermal, made from bugs or dogs, etc, etc. Each of these vary on their efficacy and can't be generalized from one study.

http://www.goodrx.com/blog/which-flu-vaccine-should-you-get/

Also the information about egg allergies and flu vaccines is typically wrong (even egg based vaccines) according to allergy experts:

http://acaai.org/news/despitewhatyouveheardkidswitheggallergiesshouldgettheflushot
 
Last edited:

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
15,174
4,467
directly above the center of the earth
I just have a feeling that she was one of those "Fake Science" folks who did not get Vaccinated for the Flu

The conservative US writer and commentator Bre Payton has died at the age of 26 after falling ill.

A friend, Morgan Murtaugh, found her unconscious on Thursday. She died in hospital where she was found to be suffering from H1N1 flu and meningitis.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46708656
 

mykel

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2013
2,038
689
sw ontario canada
I just have a feeling that she was one of those "Fake Science" folks who did not get Vaccinated for the Flu

The conservative US writer and commentator Bre Payton has died at the age of 26 after falling ill.

A friend, Morgan Murtaugh, found her unconscious on Thursday. She died in hospital where she was found to be suffering from H1N1 flu and meningitis.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46708656
Was she an anti-vaxer by chance?
Did a very quick look, but didn't want to wade through all of the condolences..
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,356
912
East Bay, Cali
I'm fully vaccinated against all the regular stuff but I don't get flu shots cause I don't get sick. The flu "vaccine" is only sometimes effective and anyone who thinks Pharma isn't behind the push to legally mandate flu vaccines for more and more people is just fooling themselves.

If you're elderly or caring for those with weak immune systems, go for it, but I don't think it's any more than a money grab convincing average healthy people that they need this every year.
 
I'm fully vaccinated against all the regular stuff but I don't get flu shots cause I don't get sick. The flu "vaccine" is only sometimes effective and anyone who thinks Pharma isn't behind the push to legally mandate flu vaccines for more and more people is just fooling themselves.

If you're elderly or caring for those with weak immune systems, go for it, but I don't think it's any more than a money grab convincing average healthy people that they need this every year.
The epidemic early in the 20th century did not respect age. Do what you want, live or die accordingly...
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,356
912
East Bay, Cali
The epidemic early in the 20th century did not respect age. Do what you want, live or die accordingly...
Oh yee of little scientific deduction.

The only theories that explain why that flu was so deadly revolve around assuming that it was genetically much different than the flu virus that had circulated during the decades preceding 1918. From what scientists have reconstructed, the 1918 "Spanish Flu" was similar to the modern flu viruses we experience today. The only reason the virus would have such devastating effects was due to low levels of immunity.

So lets assume a flu virus that is genetically much different than those we have experienced in our lifetimes appears. There are two outcomes with relation to the flu vaccines that we currently use.

1. The flu vaccine includes the new virus because scientists discovered it early and quickly developed a vaccine. As unlikely as this is (it took almost 6 months for a vaccine for the swine flu to become widely available after the initial outbreaks) this would mean that the medical community was aware of the virus before it became a pandemic. Which would mean I would be aware of the new virus because I pay attention. I would then weigh the benefits of getting a vaccine and if I thought it was important I would get vaccinated. For example, I traveled to Mexico several times after the Swine Flu outbreaks and when there was a vaccine available I got it.

2. The much more likely scenario is that there will not be a vaccine when this new virus hits and I won't have an option so good luck to us all.

Additionally the facts seem to indicate that the Spanish Flu would have been susceptible to modern anti-virals commonly administered to deal with the flu so if I do get this new unforeseen flu I can just take some anti-virals and be good to go in a few days. If a new flu that doesn't respond to anti viral medication shows up I'd consider getting a vaccine.

In any case, for now, I'll continue to rely on my natural immunity and general good health to protect me from the flu, the cold, foot fungus, and other generally non fatal heath concerns. Older folks like yourself definitely want to get a flu shot though.

If I have kids or survive the flu long enough to get old I will probably get a vaccine.

I just like to push back against the folks who lump the flu vaccine in with the polio vaccine or the measles vaccine. It's not the same thing at all. The flu will not be wiped out by vaccinating using the current methods, it mutates too fast. It will be around next year and the vaccine may not even do anything to help if they guess the wrong virus to immunize against. And once again I need to emphasize that the flu vaccine is a money bonanza for the pharmaceutical companies. It's a vaccine they claim they have to give everyone every year. The amount of money involved is crazy so if you don't think that every pharmaceutical lobbyist in the country is trying to figure out ways to legally mandate everyone take it every year you're crazy.

And stay home in the winter so I don't get infected.
Don't worry. You're vaccinated right? You should be fine. Unless it's one of those strains the vaccine didn't protect against, in which case it wouldn't matter if I was vaccinated cause it wouldn't have prevented me from being infected.
 
Last edited: