[Old_Dude]

I have a POS bike (to give you an idea it uses a Judy TT fork with Alivio shifting - see, I told ya) and I'm going to have about $300 which I can use for upgrades.

I was thinking about changing to 9 speed stuff including some of the following (using general pricing from PricePoint, for example):

$65.00 LX shifters/brake levers
$30.00 LX cassette
$45.00 XT rear derailleur
$18.00 XT chain
$135.00 2001 Tru Vativ Stylo Team Splined Crankset w/ Sealex SL Bottom Bracket
======================
$293.00 Total

Is this recommended stuff? I'd like to add some wider tires & a decent fork & nice wheels & blah, blah, blah, but for the $, I think these are upgrades that are about as worthwhile and important as anything else.

BTW - I'm of the mindset that lighter weight is great, but durability and ride comfort & efficiency are more important.

Also, someday, when I can afford a steel hardtail frame, I'd like to have some components which were "worthy" of using on the new bike. But that's a long, long way off.

Thanks very much,

OD

 

[KrusteeButt]

Well, the LX/XT combo is gonna be WAY smoother than the Alivio stuff.
I don't know a whole lot about cranksets...but I have the TruVativ FireX (pretty basic) and one thing I noticed is that the big ring is already whacked out of true...I've had to bend it back with a pair of pliers. All I know is that I never had to do that with my XT crankset that was on my other bike.
How about brake arms?

Another question that I think one could ask is "Is this bike worth upgrading? Or should I save up and just wait to buy a new/better bike altogether?" Hmmmmmm.....

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
$65.00 LX shifters/brake levers
$30.00 LX cassette
$45.00 XT rear derailleur
$18.00 XT chain
$135.00 2001 Tru Vativ Stylo Team Splined Crankset w/ Sealex SL Bottom Bracket
======================
$293.00 Total

I would loose the LX cassette and opt for an XT, they're a little stronger.

The best upgrade you could make would be a nice wheelset.

 

[Tweek]

Check JensonUSA.com's pricing too. On the whole, I've found them cheaper than PricePoint.
I have the Stylo Team splined cranks and I know I've gotten them cheaper elsewhere. They've been OK, despite that I bent one of the arms slightly. Like KB said, check on XT cranks too. Don't know about the BB you listed, but I'd definitely avoid the RaceFace Prodigy BB. Also, get a SRAM chain. It's the same price and WAY more durable. Believe me, it'll save you headaches.

 

[Old_Dude]

"Is this bike worth upgrading? Or should I save up and just wait to buy a new/better bike altogether?"

Excellent question. The answer seems quite simple, the bike is definitely NOT worth upgrading, but I now have $300 and it's not likely I'm gonna get any more money anytime soon, so, if I don't spend it on the bike NOW, my wife'll get it.

Now we can't let that happen, can we? NOOOOO!!!

Besides, as mentioned earlier, I wanna get decent stuff that I can XFER to my new bike - though that may be a long time from now.

I don't know much about the BB & cranks, but I do know I'd like to have sealed bearings with a splined system and for $135, it seems like a worthy upgrade (& I'm not expecting this Tru Vativ stuff to be as good as XT stuff).

 

[KrusteeButt]

Hide the money.

I can see where you're coming from with the thought of eventually x-ferring to a new/better frame. But sometimes I wonder just how worth it that is.

I understand that you're not expecting it to perform as well as XT stuff...but sometimes the extra $ is worth it compared to the possibility of headaches or disappointment. It's really not that much more expensive (if you look in the right places) to go with an XT crankset with their BB. (E70 I think?)

Forgot about the chain. Yep, I like using my SRAM much better.

Yeah, the wheelset probably would be one of the best upgrades to make, but that'll easily blow the $300!

 

[Old_Dude]

The best upgrade you could make would be a nice wheelset.

Really? What about these wheels - this seems like a nice set, given the low price, but that almost wipes out my $300 - ?

http://www.supergo.com/itemdisplay.asp?compflag=0&parentid=15608&company=Sun%2DRingl%E9&secid=7559&subid=7567

 

[Old_Dude]

Okay, I'm convinced - XT for the BB & cranks - nothing else will be considered.

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

You'll notice your biggest improvement in performance with a nice wheelset. I would think you could hook up with an XT/517 wheelset for alot less than that.

 

[Tweek]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
Okay, I'm convinced - XT for the BB & cranks - nothing else will be considered.

Of course you realize that Shimano's Octalink™ splined system is different than the ISIS spline, right?

 

[Old_Dude]

Of course you realize that Shimano's Octalink™ splined system is different than the ISIS spline, right?

Yeah, I sort of group everything into being either "square taper" or "splined" (where Octalink seems like another splined design).

 

[KrusteeButt]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
Yeah, I sort of group everything into being either "square taper" or "splined" (where Octalink seems like another splined design).

Well, he's saying that Shimano's splined system is not the same as ISIS splined...to use Shimano's crankset, you MUST use Shimano's BB. One of the disadvantages. Other companies that use an ISIS splined system allows a little flexibility because they're interchangeable.
I think Tweek just wanted to make sure you knew that.

 

[Tweek]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
Yeah, I sort of group everything into being either "square taper" or "splined" (where Octalink seems like another splined design).

Yep. Didn't want to see you trying to pair an XT splined crankset with an ISIS splined BB, that's all.

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
I have a POS bike (to give you an idea it uses a Judy TT fork with Alivio shifting - see, I told ya) and I'm going to have about $300 which I can use for upgrades.

I was thinking about changing to 9 speed stuff including some of the following (using general pricing from PricePoint, for example):

$65.00 LX shifters/brake levers
$30.00 LX cassette
$45.00 XT rear derailleur
$18.00 XT chain
$135.00 2001 Tru Vativ Stylo Team Splined Crankset w/ Sealex SL Bottom Bracket
======================
$293.00 Total

OD

If I were you, I'd switch the shifters/levers to XT (upgrade), and the rear Derailer to LX(downgrade) just because the shifters are teh piece that has the indexing in them adn also last a long time, and because the rear derailer is the one that always gets smacked around and needs to be replaced. Most DH'rs us LX for just that reason. Hopefully, the downgrade on one will allow the upgrade on the other.
Oh... and there is a big difference between LX and XT cassettes

 

[Old_Dude]

GEEZE - this is awesome dialog & advice - THANKS SO MUCH!!!

I did realize ISIS & Octalink weren't compatible, but I truly appreciate the heads up to make sure - thanks, again.

At this point, I'm going to just go with XT with everything or not upgrade - I haven't bashed my rear derailleur often, so I'm either "due" or going with XT will be worth the minimal upgrade. I'll check out the recommended wheels/w XT hubs.

I hope it's not too stupid to wait on the wheelset - I mean, my drivetrain really sucks (& yes, even when it's clean, cables lubed & everything adjusted properly) & I'm seriously thinking of getting a disc on the front anyway, so I'll probably wait on the wheels 'till later.

And BTW, izzit just me, or does anyone else have that "Shimano like MicroSoft" mindset? Geeze, I love/hate MicroSoft!!!

Thanks,

OD

 

[KrusteeButt]

Oh, here's something I forgot to ask...what's your wheelset now? Do you know if it's 8/9 speed? If you're currently going with a 7 speed set-up, then you need new wheels (hubs) 'cause 9 won't fit.

Another consideration on the cassette is SRAM. Just FYI, at Jensonusa.com: LX (9 spd) $29, XT $41, SRAM 7.0 $21, SRAM 9.0 $41. Supposedly, SRAM's cassettes are stronger, stiffer, and their construction allows for smoother shifts. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but I love my SRAM 9.0.

As far as the Shimano/Microsoft analogy...the thing is, it seems there's really only 2 choices in the gearing world: Shimano or SRAM. SRAM makes great stuff, but if you go with their derailleurs, you have to use GripShifts (which I hate). There are just a couple of their GripShifts that are compatible with Shimano derailleurs, but as I'm aware they're not really "high end" stuff.
So I think it's really a matter of whether or not you want GripShift or Rapid Fire shifters.

When it comes to brakes, personally I like Avid's stuff a lot better.
If you're going with separate shifters and levers, you may want to consider Avid.

 

[Old_Dude]

Geeze - I just remembered - I have a new, hand built wheel - it's not great quality, but it's probably better than what I have now - I'm stupid for not using that wheel. What was I thinking? I wasn't!!!

what's your wheelset now

It's using a SRAM 5.0 8 speed cassette, so I'm assuming it'd be compatible w/9 speed "anything" (like XT), right?

 

[KrusteeButt]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
...It's using a SRAM 5.0 8 speed cassette, so I'm assuming it'd be compatible w/9 speed "anything" (like XT), right?

Whew! Yep, you're okay. 8 and 9 speeds use the same hub type.

How does one forget that he has a new, hand-built wheel?

 

[Old_Dude]

It's 135mm width . . . a POS, I guess - anyone know anything about this wheel?

 

[Old_Dude]

How does one forget that he has a new, hand-built wheel?

#1 - If you've ever done as many mind-altering drugs as I have . . .

#2 - You ever seen my basement? (shudder)

 

[KrusteeButt]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
#1 - If you've ever done as many mind-altering drugs as I have . . .

#2 - You ever seen my basement? (shudder)

Haha!
#1 - I'm pretty sure I have!

#2 - I fear that if I saw your basement, it would be due to some scary serial-psycho-killer scenario!

About the wheel...well, it's a basic wheel. I actually have a similar set with LX hubs, used those all this past season. Bashed 'em pretty good, they took it all...only needed minor truing once in a while. Not very light, hubs' bearings probably aren't as smooth as higher end stuff, but it'll probably suffice for now.
Upgrade the wheels next year is my thought.

 

[Old_Dude]

To the untrained eye, a $400 mountain bike looks just like a $1200 mountain bike.

With some components I'm fairly knowledgeable, but with others, I'm pretty clueless. 14 months ago I was totally clueless - I've come a long way (I've read & learned a lot, though I have much more to go). And really, this is one of the best parts of mountain biking - all the stuff!!! It's all so cool!!!

I hope I'm not the only one that looks at my bike each day & thinks "Geeze, I love you". :love: :love: :love:

 

[Tweek]

Originally posted by KrusteeButt


Haha!
#1 - I'm pretty sure I have!

#2 - I fear that if I saw your basement, it would be due to some scary serial-psycho-killer scenario!

"She puts the lotion on her skin, or she gets the hose again…" :devil:

 

[Old_Dude]

Prices from Jensonusa.com - 06-Nov-02

$ 80.00 SHIMANO XT SHIFTER BL SET
$ 41.00 SHIMANO XT CASSETTE M750
$ 42.00 SHIMANO XT REAR DER, long cage
$ 18.00 SHIMANO HG93 CHAIN
$ 99.00 XT crankset, 175mm
$ 23.00 SHIMANO ES-70 BOTTOM BRACKET
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
$ 303.00 Total (within budget)

Yeah, I know, I know I didn't list the SRAM chain - I can't remember - either they don't have it, or they had so many SRAM chains I couldn't figure out which one to get. Which one should I get? Is the XT chain really that much worse?

BTW - Supergo (or Pricepoint?) has the XT crankset for $9 less, but then they're a tad more on the other items - all about the same, I think. I'd prefer to order from someone on the East coast, as that's closer to me, but if it means saving $10 on a $300 order, I'll order from CA, or wherever.

 

[Jesse B]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
And really, this is one of the best parts of mountain biking - all the stuff!!! It's all so cool!!!

I hope I'm not the only one that looks at my bike each day & thinks "Geeze, I love you". :love: :love: :love:

I love upgrading, making your precious ride even better then before. Theres so many components you can choose from, and each year they get better(most of the time).

Recently at work I've been moved from a spacious cubical, where I could park right next to my desk, to a little tiny desk where I have to park my poor bike in a little closit far away. but it builds up the anticipation of when I finally get to see it again at 5:30 :heart: :love:

 

[Burnwood]

LX cranks are basically the same as XT, except that XT has better rings, but cost $40 less a Cambria...

 

[D_D]

Originally posted by Burnwood
LX cranks are basically the same as XT, except that XT has better rings, but cost $40 less a Cambria...

I think the lx has steel rings and the xt has alu. Steel chainrings are better than alu, unless you are obsessed with weight.

What I would do with the £300 is get some decent wheels, think about disc hubs if you will want discs on you next bike.

I would forget about the drive train upgrade, keep the alivio until it breaks or wears out, there isn't much difference between alivio and xt if you look after it.

 

[Old_Dude]

. . .there isn't much difference between alivio and xt if you look after it.

Are you serious?

Are you wrong?

Is this some type of marketing scheme - they don't really need it, but there's a perceived value because it costs more?

Or am I just way too gullible.

 

[D_D]

Originally posted by Old_Dude


Are you serious?

Are you wrong?

Is this some type of marketing scheme - they don't really need it, but there's a perceived value because it costs more?

Or am I just way too gullible.

I have nice stuff on my bike but a lot of the cheaper stuff works just as well. There are improvements as you go up the range but a lot of them are not worth the money.

Look at bikes people ride as a form of transport, a lot of people commute 30, 40+ miles a day and you won't find a lot on top of the range stuff.

Just compare prices between mtb and bmx stuff and then thing about who the average bmxer is and how much they earn and the same for the average mtber.

 

[indieboy]

Originally posted by KrusteeButt

Another consideration on the cassette is SRAM. Just FYI, at Jensonusa.com: LX (9 spd) $29, XT $41, SRAM 7.0 $21, SRAM 9.0 $41. Supposedly, SRAM's cassettes are stronger, stiffer, and their construction allows for smoother shifts. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but I love my SRAM 9.0.

As far as the Shimano/Microsoft analogy...the thing is, it seems there's really only 2 choices in the gearing world: Shimano or SRAM. SRAM makes great stuff, but if you go with their derailleurs, you have to use GripShifts (which I hate). There are just a couple of their GripShifts that are compatible with Shimano derailleurs, but as I'm aware they're not really "high end" stuff.
So I think it's really a matter of whether or not you want GripShift or Rapid Fire shifters.

your comment about the shimano compatible sram shifters is totally off the ball. the difference is that the cable pull is different so it has to be adjusted to be allowed to be used for shimano d's. the sram derailuers are actually really nice but everyone has their personal perference. and w/ the sram cassettte, they are nice, i wouldnt' say they are stiffer then a shimano, i think the 9.0 is a damn nice cassette but the 7.o is a lil bit flexy, however it does shift extremely nice. i've used both the 9.0, 7.0, and the road cassette they make. all of which are extremely nice, shifting is damn crisp, and they are decently light, also good for the price too.

 

[D_D]

Originally posted by indieboy



your comment about the shimano compatible sram shifters is totally off the ball. the difference is that the cable pull is different so it has to be adjusted to be allowed to be used for shimano d's. the sram derailuers are actually really nice but everyone has their personal perference. and w/ the sram cassettte, they are nice, i wouldnt' say they are stiffer then a shimano, i think the 9.0 is a damn nice cassette but the 7.o is a lil bit flexy, however it does shift extremely nice. i've used both the 9.0, 7.0, and the road cassette they make. all of which are extremely nice, shifting is damn crisp, and they are decently light, also good for the price too.

Sram have and proberly still do make shimano compatable shifters that require no adjustment, it's the esp system that uses a different cable pull to shimano. If its not esp it's shimano compatable.

 

[Old_Dude]

Okay, so I fell into the "XT trap" . . . I guess I should send the XT crankset back & swap it out for the LX because the LX will be more durable although a bit heavier?

I feel so stupid.

Which is quite often, actually.

 

[KrusteeButt]

Well, it seems that everyone disagrees with me on this board, but here's my $0.02....keep the XT cranks.

 

[ohio]

Differences b/w XT cranks and LX cranks:
XT has aluminum granny, LX has steel (all other rings are aluminum)
XT comes with self-extracting bolts, LX does not
XT is silver and says "XT", LX is charcoal and says "LX"
XT is available in more lengths.

If the few grams from the Al granny ring and the self extracting bolts (which will save you having to purchase a $20 octalink crank-puller) are worth the price difference, keep the XT.

They're both super nice cranks.

 

[D_D]

Originally posted by ohio
Differences b/w XT cranks and LX cranks:
XT has aluminum granny, LX has steel (all other rings are aluminum)
XT comes with self-extracting bolts, LX does not
XT is silver and says "XT", LX is charcoal and says "LX"
XT is available in more lengths.

If the few grams from the Al granny ring and the self extracting bolts (which will save you having to purchase a $20 octalink crank-puller) are worth the price difference, keep the XT.

They're both super nice cranks.

You can buy a small cap thing that will enable you to use a normal crank puller on the splined ones for very cheap.

I would keep the xt, it's not worth the hasstle (and cost if mail-ordered) sending them back, just hope the alu granny lasts.

 

[Old_Dude]

Here it is thus far - I'm running out of time today, so some of the items are just "stuck on" the bike . . . the new stuff list includes:

seat
stem
handlebar
shifters/brake levers
cranks
BB
rear derailleur
cogset
chain
rear wheel
rear tire

Yeah, I put tape on the frame . . . yeah, yeah, yeah, I know it looks like a total POS . . . but that's okay . . . milk jug for chainstay protector . . . I plan on ditching the frame & fork & headset & seat post & tires & tubes & wheels & brakes next . . . we'll see how these mods turn out . . . thanks for all the help thus far . . .

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
Excellent question. The answer seems quite simple, the bike is definitely NOT worth upgrading, but I now have $300 and it's not likely I'm gonna get any more money anytime soon, so, if I don't spend it on the bike NOW, my wife'll get it.

Now we can't let that happen, can we? NOOOOO!!!

Besides, as mentioned earlier, I wanna get decent stuff that I can XFER to my new bike - though that may be a long time from now.

I don't know much about the BB & cranks, but I do know I'd like to have sealed bearings with a splined system and for $135, it seems like a worthy upgrade (& I'm not expecting this Tru Vativ stuff to be as good as XT stuff).

If I only had $300 to make a POS a better bike Id do this:

Log onto Jenson.com
Get a set of good wheels LX laced to 517s for $110. Then Id fix my drivetrain with a new Shimano LX crank for $50 and an LS gold shifter and brake lever set for $50, last but not least Id get a new Deore Rear Der for $20.

You dont really need a front der I bet...probably works just fine anyway.

You still have a little cash to spare so might as well go all out right...go a little over because your frame (if your bike really is a POS) is still a POS? You can get a Jamis Eureka Hardtail for $115!

There, you went a little over buget but, AHA, you have a whole new bike basically and guess what...its not a POS at all

 

[golgiaparatus]

I really need to start reading ahead.