About flex and the showa fork... The Honda frame has some flex engineered in to it. They did some testing with stiff and flexy frames (and probably everything in between..), and found the flexy ones to be faster (sunn dh team might have experienced the same thing...). I could imagine that the fork is designed along similar principles...
Upside down forks.
- Thread starter Hougham
- Start date
Honda uses those principals in their motos, where they try to isolate certain flex patterns to make the ride compliant in certain situations (say leaning the bike), but reduce unwanted torsions and such.
We had an argument about this a long time ago, and i still maintain a 100% rigid structure is not ideal...its rare thats its ideal in any engineering problem. You'd want certain a compliance in certain axis and a minimal amount in others. Of course trying to quantify anything to peoples satisfaction is something else.
As for developing more advanced structures, the USD concept doesn't give you much to play with, although Mavericks approach is probably the most interesting variation.
We'll have to change the term "visually flexy" to "visually fast".
It gets me thinking......I'm a pretty big guy @ 230lbs riding Shivers on both bikes. I had a regular fork on my jump bike and switched it to the shiver. I haven't noticed or had any issues or problems with the way the fork feels. Sure if you wanna grab it at a stand still it's not super stiff but at riding speeds I don't notice at all it's an inverted fork.
Clearly inverted forks hold something in some arenas as Moto bikes have inverted forks galore. Basically in the DH world Moto technology trickles down. I don't think we'll see a huge inverted fork market for a while until the regular forks get old for some reason (which they won't). Just a few years back every company's top of the line fork was a inverted. Now most of them don't even make an inverted fork. It's just a phase that comes and goes.
But I do agree with Zedro and knowing that having a 100% stiff front end does no good. Every front end has to flex to some degree. If you grab a regular fork and twist it like an inverted fork it still does twist.......just not as much per say as the inverted will.
Clearly inverted forks hold something in some arenas as Moto bikes have inverted forks galore. Basically in the DH world Moto technology trickles down. I don't think we'll see a huge inverted fork market for a while until the regular forks get old for some reason (which they won't). Just a few years back every company's top of the line fork was a inverted. Now most of them don't even make an inverted fork. It's just a phase that comes and goes.
But I do agree with Zedro and knowing that having a 100% stiff front end does no good. Every front end has to flex to some degree. If you grab a regular fork and twist it like an inverted fork it still does twist.......just not as much per say as the inverted will.
I have owned a Dorado, Super 8 and still own a Shiver....I always hear people talking about flex...if your fork is set up properly then flex is not a factor. Most people who use the "flex" claim typically have never owned one...and I mean ridden one for at least 6 months.
I seriously doubt if you took 10 average riders and put them on the same bikes with the only difference being the forks they would not be able to tell the difference. Both designs work great it's just a matter of preference. Inverted forks get a bad rap because of weight and some genius who took the fork between their legs in the parking lot and decided to play e-engineer...D
I seriously doubt if you took 10 average riders and put them on the same bikes with the only difference being the forks they would not be able to tell the difference. Both designs work great it's just a matter of preference. Inverted forks get a bad rap because of weight and some genius who took the fork between their legs in the parking lot and decided to play e-engineer...D
I hope you're joking or maybe you're new to the scene? Minnar has won every title in DH MTB.....besides you can't possibly believe that equipment has that much affect on how a rider places....a pro racers skills are the number 1 factor in how well they do....D
I had doubts about ud forks, but became a believer when I Avy'd my bike out. It east up the bumps, and doesnt need lots of service.
I'm number 11.
Picture drifting
Now picture drifting with a patch of rocks or stutter bumps in the middle........you know....drifting.....where it's really important how your move your front wheel..........now hit that wheel from the side.
There's a difference.
but people won't notice it easily unless they've tryed both kinds of forks on the same bike or have plenty of previous experience with both designs.
Sure there's a little deflection. Hell I've felt it before on some washed out fire-roads here that are loaded with bumps. I've learned to correct it though with my body position and such. I only notice it when I'm looking to notice something wrong.
My single crown shiver is more the problem doing that. Strait on it works great, take some berms/turns it's still good, but get into rutted turns and I can feel it flex. I've never had a problem or accident while it's deflected so I've just lived with it. My Minute fork didn't do this and was solid.......but I've gotten so use to the shiver that it's fine, doesn't really bug me that much.
Cannondale uses several hundred needle bearings in their forks. If they didn't use so many, so they should accomodate the travel, it would feel like poo. Older Lefty forks didn't use the amount of bearing surface in the upper part of the fork allowing the square stantion to float a little inside. If you ever feel one you will notice some play, feels like a loose headset, and a grinding feeling through the travel.
Also if you ever look at or feel the stanton n a lefty there are groves in it, serving as a guide for the needle bearings.
having ridden a Shiver for a few years, when I demo'd a 888 when it first came out, it really was a hand full. The deflections that the Shiver would handle would barely make it to the bar, but the 888 was whipping my hands everywhere. Now after a bit i got used to it and compensated and could track the bike the same. I can see where usd's are an issue for people who want something more twitchy and responsive, where my Shiver is pretty much point and shoot.