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US patent office are half-wits

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budgetrider

Monkey
Jan 23, 2005
129
0
Patents handed out that never should have been:

1: Specialized and 4 link suspension.
Why? Horst link is just an extreme variation of Lawill.
Lawill linkage has been used in car suspension for over half a century.

2: Amazon.com and One click shopping.
Why? If you patent a mouse click you might as well patent books with turnable pages.

3: ...
 
dexterq20

dexterq20

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2003
3,442
1
NorCal
Yeah, you're right. And now that I think about it, the dw link, the VPP linkage, and Giant's Maestro suspension are all the exact same thing too! :rolleyes: :nuts:
 
riderx

riderx

Monkey
Aug 14, 2001
704
0
Fredrock
budgetrider said:
Patents handed out that never should have been:

1: Specialized and 4 link suspension.
Why? Horst link is just an extreme variation of Lawill.
Lawill linkage has been used in car suspension for over half a century.
Click to expand...
What are the specifics of the patents? How do they infringe? The half-wit might not be at the patent office...
 
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budgetrider

Monkey
Jan 23, 2005
129
0
Specialized tried to get the horst link patent in Canada, but the Canadian patent office wouldn't let them. That's why Devinci's sold in canada have horst links and the ones sold in the US don't.
 
riderx

riderx

Monkey
Aug 14, 2001
704
0
Fredrock
budgetrider said:
Specialized tried to get the horst link patent in Canada, but the Canadian patent office wouldn't let them. That's why Devinci's sold in canada have horst links and the ones sold in the US don't.
Click to expand...
That still doesn't answer the question of specifics. Canada and the US have different patent offices and rules. So what works in one place might not work in the other. Plus, the specific patents are most likely worded differently.
 
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blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Big S doesn't have a Euro patent either. That's why Scott refuses to import their XC fullsus bikes, they use a very well designed Horst.

Please refer to my angry drunken rant about patenting suspension designs in James' Trance thread in the XC forum :p
 
B

budgetrider

Monkey
Jan 23, 2005
129
0
riderx said:
That still doesn't answer the question of specifics. Canada and the US have different patent offices and rules. So what works in one place might not work in the other. Plus, the specific patents are most likely worded differently.
Click to expand...
Here are the specifics: Specialized took out a U.S. patent on ANY suspension design that puts the rear axle on the seat stay. Kona's get around this by putting the rear axle on the chainstay, maestro and VPP get around it by making the whole rear triangle floating but 1 solid unit. So it's neither on the seat stay nor the chainstay. (You know what I mean, so don't make fun of the way I worded it)

Patents in ANY country are supposed to protect ORIGINAL ideas that haven't been done before. Horst link is NOT original. Neither is clicking a button to buy something on a website.

The US patent office has degenerated from an institution designed to reward inventors to a tool to make $ for lawyers.
 
Sherpa

Sherpa

Basking in fail.
Jan 28, 2004
2,240
0
Arkansaw
budgetrider said:
Here are the specifics: Specialized took out a U.S. patent on ANY suspension design that puts the rear axle on the seat stay. Kona's get around this by putting the rear axle on the chainstay, maestro and VPP get around it by making the whole rear triangle floating but 1 solid unit.

Patents in ANY country are supposed to protect ORIGINAL ideas that haven't been done before. Horst link is NOT original. Neither is clicking a button to buy something on a website.

The US patent office has degenerated from an institution designed to reward inventors to a tool to make $ for lawyers.
Click to expand...
You got the horst link bit backwards. The US Patent Office is worse than a joke.
 
riderx

riderx

Monkey
Aug 14, 2001
704
0
Fredrock
budgetrider said:
Patents in ANY country are supposed to protect ORIGINAL ideas that haven't been done before. Horst link is NOT original.
Click to expand...
So, what are specifics of the patent that are in violation? I'm sure you know that many patents are written specific to an industry or application. So, the Lawill car suspension you mention in the first post, is it written to include bicycles? My guess is: no. The Horst link is has a rear pivot on the chainstay instead of the brakestay. Those words are probably in the patent and those features sure aren't on a car.

There's been various discussions lately about Jeff Jones and his patent pending handlebar and if other subsequent designs infringe on it. If you look at the patent application you'll see the word "bicycle" throughout. Design them for motorcycles and you are probably in the clear. (patent application details here)

Patent rejection isn't as simple as "it's been done before"
 
B

budgetrider

Monkey
Jan 23, 2005
129
0
riderx said:
Patent rejection isn't as simple as "it's been done before"
Click to expand...
Apparently not for the US patent office. But it is for the rest of the world.

How would you like it if I patented using a coffee cup to hold flowers? Huh? That's an "original" application that I bet no one's patented.

Allowing someone to patent "swingarm-link-axle-arm-link-arm-shock-link" just because it's application is in bicycles is like trying to patent using locktite for a "revolutionary new application" on bicycles.
 
merrrrjig

merrrrjig

Turbo Monkey
Dec 24, 2003
1,726
0
Mammoth Lakes, Ca
Did you know that the Zip Code has its rights reserved? I saw at the post office today filling out this form to ship stuff to canada and it said Zip Code w/ the little circle R. I was amazed. How stupid!
 
mack

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
dexterq20 said:
Yeah, you're right. And now that I think about it, the dw link, the VPP linkage, and Giant's Maestro suspension are all the exact same thing too! :rolleyes: :nuts:
Click to expand...
They are to me at least, i couldnt really give a damn. As long as the real wheel moves, i honestly will admit i cannot tell the difference from a 4 bar to a VPP. Geometry is the only thing that matters to me.
 
J

JRB

Guest
mack said:
<snip>Geometry is the only thing that matters to me.
Click to expand...
Well - we all know it's not English. :think:

*hi mack - haven't seen you around for a while.
 
mack

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
loco said:
Well - we all know it's not English. :think:

*hi mack - haven't seen you around for a while.
Click to expand...
I just got back from a hell hole trip to Jamaica. 7 hour car ride to the air port due to travelocity problem. And then our hotel turned out to be a dump. Big let down. But I read 4 books on the water and got sun poisoning in the process. So it was not that big of a failure. And when i got home i had new Maxima oil and a freshly warrantied FSA crank on my front step. :thumb:
 
J

JRB

Guest
mack said:
<snip> new Maxima oil
Click to expand...
I should have some 7 wt to pick up from the MX shop on Wednesday. I am giving it a whirl since Golden Spectro is a commodity around here. I bought 2 quarts for the price of one GS from the shop in Austin.

*edit - nice to see you home in one piece.
 
mack

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
Maxima is the ****. I ordered it from the web site. Very cheap and really good stuff. I seem to like the 7 weight. Never tried golden spectra though. :think:

Yes, Jamaica is pretty poor. We went to the rum factory and a worker fell in the sugar cane press and was killed while we were on tour. They didnt tell us while we were there, but we saw it on the news.
 
riderx

riderx

Monkey
Aug 14, 2001
704
0
Fredrock
budgetrider said:
Apparently not for the US patent office. But it is for the rest of the world.

How would you like it if I patented using a coffee cup to hold flowers? Huh? That's an "original" application that I bet no one's patented.

Allowing someone to patent "swingarm-link-axle-arm-link-arm-shock-link" just because it's application is in bicycles is like trying to patent using locktite for a "revolutionary new application" on bicycles.
Click to expand...
But what exactly is the patent you are referring to and have issue with? Verbatim. If the patent was written for car suspension and specifically references cars, well that was an oversight on the original application. (In reality, no could probably have conceived it).

As to the coffee cup, I think that's called a vase :p
 
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budgetrider

Monkey
Jan 23, 2005
129
0
Do vases have handles that allow you to drink out of them when you're not using them for flowers? I think not.

US patent #9288457309548479.
Cylindrical hollow object with special base that prevents liquids and solid flowery objects from falling out the bottom with dual purpose of holding decorative vegetables and liquids for human consumption at different points in time.
 
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budgetrider

Monkey
Jan 23, 2005
129
0
JPEG patent lawsuit!!

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-945735.html

So a bunch of photographers get together to establish a standard for sharing compressed files based on math formulas published in scientific journals, they call it JPEG. One guy applies for a patent on the research he published in a computer science journal without telling the photographers' standards group that the math formula is patent applied for. The Photographer's committee thinks it's kosher cause it's been published in a scientific journal and is public domain.

The guy's company who owns the patent gets sold to another company and then taken over by another. And NOW if Forgent wins their patent case, they can bill everyone every time they open, close or create a JPEG file because each time you open, close or create a pic you are using the JPEG compression/decompression algorithm.
 
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