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gfisher270

Monkey
Aug 23, 2008
202
0
NNJ
I bought a used 2000 Jeep Wrangler from a dealer at the beginning of April. It had 54,2xx miles on it and had a clean car fax. A week later the check engine light came on and there were some other problems wrong with it. I took it to the dealer and they went over it and fixed everything. It cost 1200 dollars to fix everything. This tuesday I was under the Jeep looking around and find a big crack in the upper control arm mount. It happened because of all the rust over the years. The dealer sold it to me this way and we brought it to the dealer to get it looked at and maybe fixed. We talked to the general manager and he said that they don't need to look over a used car before they sell it. Is this true? Isn't there a law about selling unsafe vehicles? Can anyone help me? Thanks.

The crack.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,365
944
My own world inside my head
Try it Naow.......




Seriously though...... You should be able at this point to take the vehicle back, get fully refunded, and reimbursed for any repairs you have done.

Thats a big miss from the dealer that sold it to you and is a major saftey issue. The vehicle should never have been sold.
 

gfisher270

Monkey
Aug 23, 2008
202
0
NNJ
There is no suing needed.... its a structurally<sp> unsafe vehicle, that crack/corrosion didnt happen from the time the vehicle was purchased....
We said this to the manager and all he said was "You bought it as is." This is all he told us and he didn't try to help us in any way.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
There is no suing needed.... its a structurally<sp> unsafe vehicle, that crack/corrosion didnt happen from the time the vehicle was purchased....
He went down there, they denied it and said its his problem. Does that change the way he should go about it? They say your problem, sold as is, not our fault, ttyl.

:mad: prison rape
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,365
944
My own world inside my head
Sold as is is meant for vehicles that are mechanically ans structurally safe..... As far as I know its not legal to sell a vehcile in a condition like that in the first place.......

If they really just keep saying to piss off... as much as I hate saying this..... Its time to contact a lawyer



Sadly, the proper repair on damage of this type is to replace the frame...... Not cheap..... welding and modifying is not what is considered a proper repair and still technicaly not considerd a safe repair, specially seeing you cannot re heatreat the frame on teh vehicle
 

skatetokil

Turbo Monkey
Jan 2, 2005
2,384
0
DC/Bluemont VA
It's some sleazy ****, and there may be a lemon law in your state that would allow you to return the vehicle... But buyer beware man. It's always a good idea to have a third party inspection before you buy a car if you're not comfortable doing it yourself. Spending the 100 bucks up front could save you thousands later.

Anyway, chances are the dealer did not in fact know. They spend their time fixing the paint and cleaning the interior to get it ready for sale, not rooting around in the undercarriage.
 

gfisher270

Monkey
Aug 23, 2008
202
0
NNJ
The New Jersey lemon law doesn't apply to this vehicle. Since the car is more than 7 years old there's nothing that can be done. There has to be a law about selling an unsafe vehicle, it's just not right and very dangerous.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,669
114
Bay Area, California
It's some sleazy ****, and there may be a lemon law in your state that would allow you to return the vehicle... But buyer beware man. It's always a good idea to have a third party inspection before you buy a car if you're not comfortable doing it yourself. Spending the 100 bucks up front could save you thousands later.

Anyway, chances are the dealer did not in fact know. They spend their time fixing the paint and cleaning the interior to get it ready for sale, not rooting around in the undercarriage.
Body rot is not part of a lemon law. In California dealers are supposed to a complete safety check on the vehicle, which usually means placing the car on the rack to inspect the tires, brakes, suspension & undercarriage.

The big question is where was the car bought. Was it an actual dealer like Honda, Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford etc. Or was it bought on a used car lot? That is where a lot of cars are wholesaled out by dealerships that they take in trade, but are too old or too many miles to sell on their lots.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,669
114
Bay Area, California
The dealer was an actual dealer. A Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep dealer.
That's good news. I'd head down to the used car lot pretending to be interested in a used car, then show interest in a car and ask him what type of safety checks are performed. Ask them if they check brakes, tires, suspension and frame etc. If they say they check all of it, ask them what their guarantee is in not having a damaged car. Then ask for the used car manager, ask the same questions. If he's sure that they back up everything because you're interested in buying a car;) Then spring your car on them and ask what they are going to do.:rant::D
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,365
944
My own world inside my head
From a big dealership, a simple letter from your lawyer will go miles...... Just dont ask for too much. Personally I would go for a return of the vehicle, the cost of the vehicle, the cost of any loan fee's, and the costs of the repairs you made that are unusable being the nature of the repairs that are needed to safely drive the vehicle. Make note of the liablity involved with danger to you, and danger to others on the road, make note that you have documented this is a problem, what milage, how long you have had posession of the vehicle, who you contacted about it, when you contacted them about it ETC....... Lay the liability right were it belongs on this one.... on the dealers doorstep
 

mantispf2000

Turbo Monkey
Aug 9, 2001
1,747
194
Nevada, 2 hours from Mammoth
Just sharing what happened to me when I lived in WA state.

Then-wife wanted a Jeep Cherokee, found a used one she liked, bought it, and the fun began. Granted, she did drive it to CO for a trip, and we did put 12-13k miles on it. However, it would constantly over-heat, handled like crap, and went through oil like water. Found out through WA law we could contact the previous owner, I called them, and when I said "our connection", she replied with "Oh, I'm so sorry you bought our troubles". Apparently, they bought it new with a cracked block (how, I don't know), and was able to trade it in based on the lemon law. What they traded in, we bought. Followed the car's path, never once was the block replaced/repaired, and the dealer we bought it from wasn't going to do anything about it, even with our research. Again, yes, we did put miles on it, however, this car should never have been sold, IMO.

So I spent several Sundays in front of their dealership, with the Jeep, and signs saying "We bought this lemon here". Did it work? Well, we were served with papers that they were going to sue us for making "untrue statements". Never did get it fully rectified, as we moved to Tahoe, divorced, and I let it all go by the wayside.

I wonder...........................
 
Last edited:

Scrub

Turbo Monkey
Feb 4, 2003
1,383
38
NOR CAL, Sac/CoCo County
So I spent several Sundays in front of their dealership, with the Jeep, and signs saying "We bought this lemon here". Did it work? Well, we were served with papers that they were going to sue us for making "untrue statements". Never did get it fully rectified, as we moved to Tahoe, divorced, and I let it all go by the wayside.

I wonder...........................
You should have set the cruise control on it and ghost ridden it into the dealerships showroom at 2am with a sack of lemons in the jeep
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
15,364
1,919
Colorado
Funny how the 'car dealer' vs 'mtb mountain' liability/responsibility thoughts change so drastically...
Not arguing, but he has a point that any untrained person can get off their bike and look over a drop to see whether a landing is safe. The average untrained person does not have access to a lift, nor the experience/knowledge to identify damages of that sort before buying a car.
 

mantispf2000

Turbo Monkey
Aug 9, 2001
1,747
194
Nevada, 2 hours from Mammoth
kinda have a hard argument after you just put 13k miles on it
Agreed, however, to be able to talk with the previous owner and be informed by her that they got rid of the vehicle due to the cracked block puts some credibility to the situation.


You should have set the cruise control on it and ghost ridden it into the dealerships showroom at 2am with a sack of lemons in the jeep
Oh, I called the dealership a few times, asking for their produce manager, the one in charge of their lemon sales.
 

gfisher270

Monkey
Aug 23, 2008
202
0
NNJ
The dealer said the frame is shot. They want $5600 to repair it. That not gonna happen so now we are talking to them about returning the vehicle.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,837
0
South Seattle
Wow, you're in a tough spot. I don't want to sound negetive, but you are probably going to have to lawyer up hard to get any money out of this. The entire business model of used cars on dealers lots is selling junk at 200% of actual value. You bought it "as is" and didn't so much as peak under the wheel well? Buyer beware. I don't see the dealer having any legal obligation to make things right.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
30,699
3,712
Portland, OR
My understanding is that a dealer can't sell a car that is unsafe for road use. My Ford F350 had busted rear springs when I bought it and the dealership paid to have them fixed when I pointed them out.

I asked how something like that passed the safety inspection and they told me a 3rd party did the inspection.
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,430
0
Charlotte, NC
If you tell me what state you actually purchased the car I may be able to provide you some good information to work with.
1) What state
2) What date did you purchase the car
3) When did you bring the vehicle back and have them specifically see THAT issue
4) How many miles did you drive between #2 & 3
5) Did you actually buy the car "As-Is?"
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,548
492
Im over here now
Agreed, however, to be able to talk with the previous owner and be informed by her that they got rid of the vehicle due to the cracked block puts some credibility to the situation.
if it was actually cracked and you put a additional 13k miles on it, then thats impressive
 

gfisher270

Monkey
Aug 23, 2008
202
0
NNJ
If you tell me what state you actually purchased the car I may be able to provide you some good information to work with.
1) What state
2) What date did you purchase the car
3) When did you bring the vehicle back and have them specifically see THAT issue
4) How many miles did you drive between #2 & 3
5) Did you actually buy the car "As-Is?"
1. New Jersey
2. April 17,2011
3. May 6, 2011
4. About 600 miles
5. Yes the car was bought "As-Is"
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,430
0
Charlotte, NC
1. New Jersey
2. April 17,2011
3. May 6, 2011
4. About 600 miles
5. Yes the car was bought "As-Is"
Tell me about the repairs that were done post purchase? Did you pay for them? Did the dealer have you sign an addendum saying that them fixing those issues (at no cost) did not change the status of your As-Is purchase?

If not you may be in luck.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,365
944
My own world inside my head
My understanding is that a dealer can't sell a car that is unsafe for road use. My Ford F350 had busted rear springs when I bought it and the dealership paid to have them fixed when I pointed them out.

I asked how something like that passed the safety inspection and they told me a 3rd party did the inspection.
I know in Ca above and beyond that if this vehicle were to come back to the vehicle were it was sold the dealership is not allowed to work on it at all with damage like this.... and under the warranty law here... they also have the right to purchase back your vehicle at the rate they deem it is worth without asking you first.... IE you come to pick it up, the hand you a check for crap value...... YOu ask about it they say your vehicle is on the way to the wrecking yard, here is a box with your belongings......


Some are good, some are bull****, but there are alot of warranty/safety alws out there..... But def all states, its not legal to sell a vehicle that is not safe for the road....