[JMAC]

Sitting here sick wondering which is better the Python 2.0 tubeless tire or the new Michelin comp s with the blue line tubeless tire.
They seem to be made to compete with each other.
The python is 730gr
The Comp s is 650gr

Well at least thats what the manufacturers say but they're probly close.
So which is it?

 

[stosh]

I ride the pythons.

They are not good in Mud, however they are great for semi-loose dirt and gravel and they are really fast on hard pack. They are also pretty grippy in the corners. I have my front tire reversed to see how it rides but I haven't had many rides to formulate an opinion.

Don't know about the Mich's but they are probably more expensive?

 

[Babar]

From Nino.

German "BIKE" magazine did a comparison test.they measured just about everything possible:weight,sizes of carcass+tread,size,rolling resistance,protection against pinchflats,price...and for sure on the trail tests.here`s some interesting results:

first of all some rolling resistance measures of different tubes.measured with the same tire and the same pression:
Continental Latex: 140g - 16.3 watts
Schwalbe Standard: 180g - 18.1 watts
Schwalbe Extraleicht: 96g - 18.3 watts
Schwalbe Leicht: 127g - 19.1 watts

Examples of different tire pressures on a Continental Twister Supersonic:
4 bar / 58 psi: 18.3 watts
2 bar / 29 psi: 24.6 watts

Rolling resistance on all those tires was measured with 2.5 bar / 36 psi pression.

"RACE" Tires:
Continental Twister Supersonic: 1.9" - 330g - 21.9 watts
Continental Escape Pro : 2.1" - 511g - 28.6 watts
Hutchinson Scorpion Air Light : 2.0" - 552g - 35.9 watts
Kenda Klimax Lite 345g : 1.95" - 315g - 28.4 watts
Michelin Wildgripper Comp S Light : 2.0" - 456g - 25.7 watts
Nokian Boazbeana X : 1.9" - 426g - 25.7 watts
Maxxis High Roller R : 2.0" - 452g - 28.3 watts
Schwalbe Fast Fred QC : 2.0" - 349g - 18.1 watts
Schwalbe Little Albert Light QC : 2.1" - 490g - 26.3 watts

"ENDURO" Tires:
Continental Explorer Pro Tection: 2.1" - 517g - 29.5 watts
Continental Vertical Pro Tection: 2.3" - 624g - 29.4 watts
Continental Survival Pro Tection: 2.3" - 686g - 32.6 watts
Geax Blade 200. 2.0" - 573g - 34.1 watts
Geax Sturdy: 2.25" - 860g - 30.4 watts
Hutchinson Mosquito Air: 2.3" - 597g - 35.5 watts
IRC Serac XC: 2.1" - 574g - 26.8 watts
Maxxis Harddrive 2.1: 2.1" - 537g - 34.3 watts
WTB Mutano Raptor: 2.24" - 778g - 43.5 watts
Maxxis Ignitor / Dynomite: 2.3"/2.35" - 693g/675g - 37.6/36.9 watts
Michelin Wildgripper FrontS / XL S: 2.1" - 554g - 25.5/24.5 watts
Michelin Wildgripper Hot S: 2.1" - 681g - 36.7 watts
Specialized Roll X: 2.0" - 554g - 43.5 watts
Specialized Enduro Pro: 2.2" - 546g - 31.8 watts
Nokian NBX 2.1: 2.1" - 595g - 28.3 watts
Ritchey Z-Max Millenium: 2.35" - 691g - 26.2 watts
Schwalbe Little Albert Light FO / ORC: 2.1" - 504g - 38.2/30.6 watts
Schwalbe Fat Albert Light: 2.35" - 680g - 31.9 watts

I don`t list the HARDCORE-FREERIDE TIRES.

remember:
these numbers are for 1 tire only!double those numbers to get a figure on how much power gets lost just by the rolling resistance alone...everyone who ever did a power test knows how much 10 watts more or less are!

ok-now those numbers are true on tarmac and dry hardpack only.on softer ground the rolling resistance isn`t as easy to measure.lower tire pressure helps rolling resistance once the ground gets rough

 

[Babar]

First weight listed is claimed weight second number is real.

Hutchinson Python 2001 2.0" 732 g
Hutchinson Python 2002 2.0" 725 g 722 g -0,41% Black/grey compound
Hutchinson Python 2003 2.0" 730 g 704 g -3,56%

Michelin Comp S Light 2002 2.00" 732 g green compound, wears out very very fast
Michelin Comp S Light 2003 2.00" 660 g 652 g -1,21% black, avrg (620/622/640/641/661/674/678/680)
Michelin Comp S UST 2002 1.95" 650 g 667 g +2,62% green compound, averaged(2)
Michelin Jet S UST 2001 2.0" 640 g 710 g +10,94%
Michelin Jet S UST 2002 2.0" 640 g 725 g +13,28% black compound, averaged(2)
Michelin Jet S UST 2002 2.0" 640 g 708 g +10,62% green compound, avrg (700/715)
Michelin WildGripper Comp S UST 2001 1.95" 650 g 675 g +3,85%
Michelin WildGripper Comp S UST 2002 1.95" 650 g 730 g +12,31%
Michelin WildGripper Comp S UST 2002 1.95" 650 g 611 g -6,00% new compound (changed in 7/2002), avrg (592/620/620)
Michelin WildGripper Comp S UST 2002 2.0" 665 g 670 g +0,75% new compound (changed in 07/2002), old compound was ~740 g

 

[Babar]

Tire rolling resistance, lower is better.

 

[stosh]

So do I understand this that the Pythons weigh less then claimed and have a low rolling resistance?

 

[JMAC]

Don't care about mud but so with all that complicated stuff is the Python better or the michelin?

 

[JMAC]

Ok just read someones post over at MTBR and said that he just switched from his UST serac (all i've used so far) to his Heaveir Pythons and says the difference was like night/day they rolled so much faster, climbed 10X fasterm, and had more grip on all conditions.

 

[Babar]

Originally posted by stosh
So do I understand this that the Pythons weigh less then claimed and have a low rolling resistance?

yep youre right... UST can save additional 3-4 watts over regular tubes. latex (Stans and Eclipse) saves more watts.

 

[Heytouekutbenca]

JMAC, I've been using stan sealed airlight pythons on my cross maxs and I've not got a problem or a flat yet. I've also tried comp s last year (with tubes) and wasn't really impressed. But I think the best tires I've used were a pair of front s and xl s. Try Stan's stuff, it saves precious grams and $ over tubeless tires...

 

[Hellrider'03]

Originally posted by JMAC

The python is 730gr
The Comp s is 650gr

I currently run the Python Air Lite Non-UST with Stans----- 430 gr for tire + 16 gr for STANS = 446 gr on a Mavic Cross MAX UST

I am 170 lbs and run 35-40 psi with NO problems. I have raced them and ridden them for over 2 months. I lost only 5 psi on my front tire after initial ride only.

My next try will be the COMP S LITES Non UST with Stans. But for Michigan sand the Pythons are great.

JL

 

[JMAC]

Originally posted by Heytouekutbenca
JMAC, I've been using stan sealed airlight pythons on my cross maxs and I've not got a problem or a flat yet. I've also tried comp s last year (with tubes) and wasn't really impressed. But I think the best tires I've used were a pair of front s and xl s. Try Stan's stuff, it saves precious grams and $ over tubeless tires...

That actualy sounds like a damn good idea. Either way i definently want some Pythons i used to have this thing about getting over built tires with big knobs but now realize it's just slowing me down.
When i was at Sea Otter Classic i talked to Stan himself about doing that and he had convinced me but i never got around to buying some there. So now i'll have to pay the expense of shiping

Didn't you have a flat at Bromont.?

 

[JMAC]

You know the Python airlights and the ones with the yellow edge.
My shop has a set of the yellow edge ones i can get cheap so whats the difference bettween them?

 

[Heytouekutbenca]

The difference is about 200 grams for each tire. I had a flat but with my beaten continentals. There was like 10 holes in the rear tire that I patched with multi-use glue... that dissolved in the stan's. I could have continued on my tire but it had lost pressure so the back of my bike was like a lizard tail...

 

[JMAC]

Originally posted by Heytouekutbenca
The difference is about 200 grams for each tire. I had a flat but with my beaten continentals. There was like 10 holes in the rear tire that I patched with multi-use glue... that dissolved in the stan's. I could have continued on my tire but it had lost pressure so the back of my bike was like a lizard tail...

No not the differnce bettwen the airlights and UST tires but the other none UST ones they made with the yellow edge i'm sure it's not a 200gram/tire difference.
I ordered dome stans today and they sent it today so it should be here soon. I'm going tobe saving almost a pound in weight and have much faster rolling tires watch out Heytouekutbenca i'll be betten your ass soon enough Well not at St-annes cause i'll still have my crappy tires but he at Le massif du Sud I hope

 

[Babar]

Originally posted by JMAC
No not the differnce bettwen the airlights and UST tires but the other none UST ones they made with the yellow edge i'm sure it's not a 200gram/tire difference.
I ordered dome stans today and they sent it today so it should be here soon. I'm going tobe saving almost a pound in weight and have much faster rolling tires watch out Heytouekutbenca i'll be betten your ass soon enough Well not at St-annes cause i'll still have my crappy tires but he at Le massif du Sud I hope

Put some conti twister super sonics on you will go even faster...

Plus you dont need UST since youre going for stans.

 

[JMAC]

Originally posted by Babar
Put some conti twister super sonics on you will go even faster...

Plus you dont need UST since youre going for stans.

I think i'll try the pythons first. But i want some of those super sonics to cause they'd be good for some races i do.

 

[Heytouekutbenca]

It is effectively not a 200 grams difference... it is actually 250 grams : 26 x 2.0, 127tpi, 730g. I won't be at the massif du sud and I hate mont ste-anne so maybe you'll be in front of me. Also, a pound doesn't make the difference between winning and bonking . There are some racers on the world cup with tubeless tires and they can finish well. I think Cristoph Sauser uses that and maybe Filip Meirag (spelling??).

Do you stay to see the world cup? I've some family in Ste-Foy and a somes of my team (like the half) stay. I hope we will have a good show!

 

[NRSracer]

For around hre, WildGrippers SUCK! I have used tubeless and clincher, both suck.

 

[JMAC]

Ya i know it's not the differnce between losing and winning but it helps and it makes a bigger difference when the weight is on the outside of your wheels.
Why do you hate Mt St-Anne it will be my first time riding there but whats bad about it?

No i'm not staying for the world cup i saw all the pro stuff at sea otter and it's not worth staying the extra time. Also i'm leaving next Wednsday to go to Vancouver BC and area for 2 weeks Almost all the familly on my mums side live there. Plus they're rich and live on Grouse MT. So i'll be going to the World Cup to watch on grouse and i'll bring my bike to go riding with some monkeys.

 

[bURKeNSTiEN]

my 2 cents on this

I've run the conti supersonics, and well they are definately a hardpack, dry tire. there's not a lot to the tread pattern for much else. Theyre quick, quick like Maxxis flyweights (both 330gr tires) but I wouldn't use them for anything but hardpack.

IMO Python airlights are just an all round awesome race tire. They have a very large carcass & so they are very cushy to ride on, they roll very well at 30-35psi (the pressue i race them with) and they just work pretty damn well in 95% of all conditions. I'm currently using them in the Winter Series here (read MUD, mud mud & more mud) and they grip everything pretty damn well, couldn't expect much more out of them.

Interestingly, the direction arrow seems to have changed on them. I have some 2001 pythons and some new 2003 ones, and the direction arrow points in a different way on them.
so in effect I am running the 2003 ones backwards (fr & rr) and works HEAPS better. this means that the tread pattern - the arrow shape - points 'forward'

Pythons = the good siht