[$tinkle]

utah is poised to become the first state to repudiate the bush administration's no child left behind act (exec summary), citing overbearing federal control and inappropriate standards. at risk is $116 million in federal support, an amount that utah is willing to forgo for the sake of setting its own education policies. "This is not a partisan issue; this is a states' rights issue," said rep. margaret dayton, a Republican mother of 12 who authored the bill to use state money (and standards) for education. the state house unanimously passed the measure; the utah senate anticipates quick passage, which the republican governor is expected to sign.

a quick googling of news sites reveals many other states posturing for retreat as well.

looks like utah recognizes 2 fundamental issues:
- fiscally unsound policy
- federalism

 

[narlus]

mother of 12. sweet jesus.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

mother of 12. sweet jesus.

Its UTAH, if you are not into MTB what else is there to do?

 

[N8 v2.0]

State's Rights

 

[Jr_Bullit]

linky poo?

 

[$tinkle]

holy crap, woman.
is your internet broke?
go googling for margaret dayton, utah, no child left behind, right wing bastion blah-blah-blah

 

[mack]

mother of 12. sweet jesus.

Bah, there is a kid in my grade who has 15 brothers and sisters...


And thats in Ct...

 

[ummbikes]

State's Rights

Right on N8 I whole heartedly agree! More states should reject this flawed educational plan!

 

[Changleen]

New title for this thread: 'Even Utah thinks Bush's policies are dumb'.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

holy crap, woman.
is your internet broke?
go googling for margaret dayton, utah, no child left behind, right wing bastion blah-blah-blah

K darlin - let me clarify - the NCLB Act pays a large portion of my paycheck - so I stay on top of just about every article written regarding states' actions to change/modify/or refute the Federal government.

However, Utah talks big - I've yet to see an article or factual piece of evidence that said they were doing more than bitching. So other than google - do you have an article with a quote that says, from the Utah Department of Ed, that they will be rejecting Federal requirements and surviving without their federal dollars? because I haven't found that one yet.

 

[mack]

Isnt it legal to screw sheep in Utah?

 

[blue]

Gwar! I'm not sure which is worse, the Utah edigmication system, or NCLB.

Oh yeah, I know a girl who wants to have 11 children.

 

[blue]

Isnt it legal to screw sheep in Utah?

Probably. But not legal to have oral or anal sex.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Right on N8 I whole heartedly agree! More states should reject this flawed educational plan!

So tell me, if it were so flawed, in its many aspects, why would the Federal government thumb its nose at the many many states looking for "waivers" and "special privileges" and push through to see it come to fruition?

Granted - I work with this particular law, and prior laws similar to it - as a job. And, because of this, I will hold back because I have an obvious bias...

But - unless you are an educator, I'm more than curious to know a) what it is you think this law is, b) what you believe it does for you and your children, c) if you think you have a complete understanding of it.

 

[$tinkle]

However, Utah talks big - I've yet to see an article or factual piece of evidence that said they were doing more than bitching. So other than google - do you have an article with a quote that says, from the Utah Department of Ed, that they will be rejecting Federal requirements and surviving without their federal dollars? because I haven't found that one yet.

well, if it's passed the house unanimously, & the state senate expects to pass it by a great deal, then it's law once they take it to the governor's mansion for signature.

doesn't matter what the utah dept of ed sez, no?

 

[biggins]

So tell me, if it were so flawed, in its many aspects, why would the Federal government thumb its nose at the many many states looking for "waivers" and "special privileges" and push through to see it come to fruition?

Granted - I work with this particular law, and prior laws similar to it - as a job. And, because of this, I will hold back because I have an obvious bias...

But - unless you are an educator, I'm more than curious to know a) what it is you think this law is, b) what you believe it does for you and your children, c) if you think you have a complete understanding of it.

uh oh you just pissed teenie off

 

[mack]

uh oh you just pissed teenie off

pft, Bwahahaha.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

well, if it's passed the house unanimously, & the state senate expects to pass it by a great deal, then it's law once they take it to the governor's mansion for signature.

doesn't matter what the utah dept of ed sez, no?

well they are the ones that have to fill the void and do it in such a way that districts can afford it.

but you are correct - it's a good thing Utah means little to my company

 

[mack]

Salt lake city is probably the worst planned city ever, a prime example of bad planning and a surge in growth... if you look at pictures from 40 years ago when my Dad grew up there the city was so small and the rest was desert... now its just ugly.

 

[ummbikes]

But - unless you are an educator, I'm more than curious to know a) what it is you think this law is, b) what you believe it does for you and your children, c) if you think you have a complete understanding of it.

Are you saying if I am an educator you don't want me to explain my position on this matter? Or, unless I'm an educator you don't want me to explain my position on this matter?


Either way, your tone is offensive.

 

[kinghami3]

Go Utah. If there was ever a policy hell-bent on destroying education as we know it, that was the one.

 

[reflux]

If this No Child Left Behind is both working and effective, why is there still such a high demand for after-school teaching and tutoring centers? Is it effective/inefficient teaching in the schools or parents who don't want to sit down with their kids and help them with their work?

 

[kinghami3]

It gives money to schools that are well off and takes money from schools that aren't so it is completely counter productive. Yes, maybe more money is going to school, but it's all to the schools that don't need it. My mother works with handicapped children at the schools around my hometown. When they do the testing for No Child Left Behind, they test those kids too and use the results to base their info off of. It's just plain wrong to take money away from a school because they have programs for handicapped kids. Also, the program forces schools to teach to some very narrow curricula and not what they need to know. It may be a well-intentioned program but it was not thought out well at all and needs to be seriously rethought or destroyed.

 

[Silver]

Based on what Kinghami says (and only based on that, I don't know much more about NCLB) it sounds like the program is set up to do exactly what some people want it to do:

Destroy public education.

edit: clarity and grammar.

 

[blue]

Go Utah. If there was ever a policy hell-bent on destroying education as we know it, that was the one.

I would think Utah is possibly more hellbent on destroying education than NCLB. At least NCLB has some mention of possibly making a terribly misguided attempt at improving education. Utah just pays for more pavement instead of schools...god knows we need more construction workers!

Salt Lake City is actually fairly well planned out on a grid system, but you're right, suburban sprawl and a mess of suburb cities has caused problems. Salt Lake City itself is actually quite small and not very populous (150kish), but some of its suburbs within Salt Lake Valley are almost larger than it.

IMHO, Salt Lake City should just annex the whole ****ing valley, it would go from a 150k city to 1 million plus overnight...but hey...whatever.

Utah is ****ed up. Don't move here.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Are you saying if I am an educator you don't want me to explain my position on this matter? Or, unless I'm an educator you don't want me to explain my position on this matter?


Either way, your tone is offensive.

I wasn't trying to offend you. I work with educators all day long, so I hear the mix of frustration and relief on a regular basis. What I don't hear, except from the few parents' I know whose children are directly impacted by changes in the law, is what the perception of the "regular" community is.

I do know that most educators are still just barely understanding the law. Many districts are having to create a new position specifically for working with the NCLB Act and how it applies to their district, and then again within each individual building within the district.

If you are an educator, your opinion is obviously quite valid as you're on the front lines...I'm speaking from a point of professional curiosity - I'd like to see this thread continue fully.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

If this No Child Left Behind is both working and effective, why is there still such a high demand for after-school teaching and tutoring centers? Is it effective/inefficient teaching in the schools or parents who don't want to sit down with their kids and help them with their work?

The NCLB Act isn't designed to do away with after-school tutoring/learning centers. It's supposed to identify what students are actually in need of assistance, and bring consistency to the education students are receiving whether they're in Louisiana or the Bronx or Chicago or Seattle.

However, one of the pieces in the law is that if a student is found to be struggling, and the parents request supplemental services such as after school tutoring, the district is obliged to review your child's case, and provide those extra services. If they don't, they must provide the parents with a valid reason why not.

As a parent, if I were a parent, I would find the requirements of the NCLB Act to be relieving - as it requires districts to communicate more and consistently with families regarding:
The qualifications of a students' teachers
Whether or not the School the child is attending met Adequate Yearly Progress
If the school didn't meet it's requirements and the parents request that their child attend another school that did - then the school has to provide transportation
Is the school considered to be 'safe' or not
Notices inviting parents to be involved in their child's education
and much much more.

It is challenging for the districts to meet all of the requirements and quickly under NCLB, but the goals of the program are good ones - and what the Feds are trying to do is "stick with it" long enough to see change brought about - if they give up now, then everyone loses.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Also - just FYI - look for changes to come in the near future regarding IDEA (Special Education). I received notice this morning that my team is to be briefed on what all the re-authorization of IDEA means for individual districts and what we will be making available to them to help.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Based on what Kinghami says (and only based on that, I don't know much more about NCLB) it sounds like the program is set up to do exactly what some people want it to do:

Destroy public education.

edit: clarity and grammar.

No - unfortunately that's the wrong impression to form about it. It needs work, that's for sure, but the intention is the opposite - it's to strengthen public education by requiring teachers and schools meet certain levels of qualifications and communicate this information to their families.

Also - don't expect NCLB to "go away" or be "waived" as previous versions of the NCLB Act were - at most, expect it to be modified to better accommodate districts who are really struggling in meeting it's many requirements.

 

[Fathead]

Also - just FYI - look for changes to come in the near future regarding IDEA (Special Education). I received notice this morning that my team is to be briefed on what all the re-authorization of IDEA means for individual districts and what we will be making available to them to help.

Would the changes have anything to do with:

Perry enters No Child fray
Governor backs Neeley's challenge to law on testing
By JUSTIN GEST
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON - Gov. Rick Perry, one of the most stalwart backers of President Bush's No Child Left Behind education policy, said Sunday that he nevertheless backs the Texas education commissioner's challenge to the federal law over standardized testing of special-education students.
Texas exempted nearly 10 times the desired number of students from regular standardized testing, even after its request for a waiver to do so was denied by the U.S. Department of Education, which is led by former Houstonian Margaret Spellings.
"Dr. (Shirley) Neeley is the commissioner," Perry said at the National Governors Association education summit in Washington. "She makes the daily decisions, and I support her and the Texas Education Agency."
Despite the state's apparent defiance of national requirements, Perry said that Texas public schools, and their alignment with No Child Left Behind, are exemplary.
When asked how he reconciled that claim with Neeley's action, the governor said, "One of the things we find is that one shoe is not going to fit all 50 states.
"We are working closely with Secretary Spellings in integrating No Child Left Behind."
The federal government requires that schools exempt no more than 1 percent of their students from testing because of learning disabilities. Any additional students must be counted as "failing."
This year, nearly 10 percent of all students didn't take the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills because of such special-education needs. Instead, they took a state-mandated alternative test.
The change in Texas had the effect of reducing the number of "failing" students sixfold, according to the education agency numbers released Friday.

(Houston Chronicle 2/28/05) - more to follow

 

[Fathead]

The more:

Texas receives more than $1 billion in federal money tied to compliance with No Child Left Behind. Some funds could be in jeopardy, depending on how federal officials react to Neeley's decision.
Texas' approach is the latest link in a nationwide chain of state policymakers bucking the federal act, which was partly modeled after the president's initiatives as governor.
Fifteen other states have introduced legislation in the last two months challenging No Child Left Behind, and the Utah Senate is prepared to vote on a bill, already passed by the House, to give higher priority to state education laws.
"You're going to see more and more states go that way," said Virginia Gov. Mark Warner, the National Governors Association chairman.
"I want to give the new secretary (Spellings) the benefit of the doubt. She said she would be more cooperative."
Acknowledging other states' bumpy adaptation process, Perry said, "They may see it as, 'Oh my God, we can't do this.' Well, the fact is, we did it."
Perry also announced that Texas has joined the American Diploma Project network with Arkansas, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island.
The states are committed to raising high school academic standards and better aligning curricula with the demands of postsecondary education and work.
The states will ask high schools to prepare all graduates for college or work and hold colleges accountable for the success of their students.
Texas is already in compliance with most of the agreement's rules.
The state Higher Education Coordinating Board adopted a program that made college preparatory courses the standard curriculum in all high schools in 2000, when Perry was the lieutenant governor. Perry backed it later as governor.
"For the first time, a group of states will reshape an American institution that has far outlasted its effectiveness," said Ohio Gov. Bob Taft, co-chair of the Washington-based Achieve Inc., which will coordinate the effort. "More than 5 million American students each year — 35 percent of public school students nationwide — will be expected to meet higher requirements under this landmark initiative. This is the biggest step states can take to restore the value of the high school diploma."

 

[Fathead]

No - unfortunately that's the wrong impression to form about it. It needs work, that's for sure, but the intention is the opposite - it's to strengthen public education by requiring teachers and schools meet certain levels of qualifications and communicate this information to their families.

I hope it does work. But the conspiracy theory is not without support. The factions backing vouchers, public funding for charter schools, and other alternatives to public schools are closely aligned with many Republican leaders, including the TX Governor. More failure for public schools = more ammunition for the supporters of McSchool, Inc.

This state alone has hundreds of school districts in dire budgetary distress. We're under a court order to restructure how we fund them. Our poor rural districts have dismal tax bases. Our "wealthy" suburban districts are stretched to the limit to keep up w/residential growth that balloons enrollment while adding relavtively little to revenues. Our largest urban districts are hobbled with battles over school closures, crumbling campuses, and what color the superintendent's skin happens to be.

Add to this the burden of catering to the growing needs of an ever-expanding class of special education students, dealing with aloof parents who don't support their kids efforts at school AT ALL, and a pay structure that is designed to attract new teachers but does not reward experience.

If NCLB attracts ire from educators, it may be related to its status as a rather large straw strapped to an already-overburdened camel.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Its UTAH, if you are not into MTB what else is there to do?

Seriously?

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Nice pics!

And Fathead - while TX has many of our largest customers, it's not the sole reason they're looking to work on the special education laws. It's time to improve the system, and the states are not doing so consistently. Bringing in Federal dollars and Federal mandates with a goal of improving the entire system and standardizing education, requirements for teachers, and keeping families informed is a huge, important, and very challenging step.
The worst thing the government can do now, after making this a "law" and working to enforce it, is to back down now....one - it makes the feds look weak and incapable, and two, the goals are the right kind of goals. Perhaps if the states can prove they have the ability to meet all the goals stated in the NCLB Act independently of the government, the the gov't will back off and let the issue go...but the fact is they aren't and many kids get dropped as a result - and what's worse is, no one had a clue how many kids were receiving inadequate education because there were no standardized tests or even requirements and no requirement to notifiy the parents...