Quantcast

Vista. How reliable?

drakan

Monkey
Feb 27, 2007
263
0
Virginia, USA
Okay kiddies...these are its:

PC
-2.4ghz Core 2 Quad Q6600 CPU
-4gb Patriot RAM
-500gb 7200RPM HDD paired with 80gb Raptor 10,000RPM HDD
-nVidia 8600GT GPU
-20" LG display with 3000:1 contrast and 2ms response
-All other boring goodies not cheaped out on (Mobo, Case, PSU, etc)

Orrr...
iMac
-2.0ghz Core 2 Duo CPU
-4gb RAM (would upgrade the 1gb immediately)
-410GB storage total (OEM 250GB+160GB Firewire external drive)
-ATI XsomethingterriblesoweonlysellitOEM GPU
-20" Apple display

Will the Core 2 Duo running under OS X be able to shape up against the Core 2 Quad in XP? EPIC DEATHMATCH!
Well, er. You're not going to see all 4 processing cores in XP, or 4 gigs of ram. You're gonna have to go with Vista if you plan on using that setup.
And the iMac sucks... Better bang for your buck with the PC.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Well, er. You're not going to see all 4 processing cores in XP, or 4 gigs of ram. You're gonna have to go with Vista if you plan on using that setup.
And the iMac sucks... Better bang for your buck with the PC.
XP x64 supports 128GB of memory. Regular XP supports 4GB max - it will give you 3.something GB the number depends on what PCI devices you have in your system and can regularly support up to 2GB for the application unless you use the /3GB switch and the application supports it.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/facts/top10.mspx

XP support is based on the no. of physical CPUs - hyperthreading or multicore does not count. XP Home supports 1 CPU and XP Pro supports 2 CPU. That means right now you can have 4 or 8 cores depending on the version of XP though most applications won't take advantage of them all yet.

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/multicore.mspx
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
So I just tried rendering some HDR out of .raw in Photomatix on my GF's laptop (Intel Centrino something something with 1 gig of RAM). :twitch:

I'm honestly on the verge of going to the Apple store in the next 20 minutes.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,965
4
So I just tried rendering some HDR out of .raw in Photomatix on my GF's laptop (Intel Centrino something something with 1 gig of RAM). :twitch:

I'm honestly on the verge of going to the Apple store in the next 20 minutes.
Don't compare a properly built desktop PC to a laptop.

If you are making purchase decisions based on testing things out on a "something something" laptop, then how can you know your getting the right thing?

Good luck either way.
 

drakan

Monkey
Feb 27, 2007
263
0
Virginia, USA
XP x64 supports 128GB of memory. Regular XP supports 4GB max - it will give you 3.something GB the number depends on what PCI devices you have in your system and can regularly support up to 2GB for the application unless you use the /3GB switch and the application supports it.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/facts/top10.mspx

XP support is based on the no. of physical CPUs - hyperthreading or multicore does not count. XP Home supports 1 CPU and XP Pro supports 2 CPU. That means right now you can have 4 or 8 cores depending on the version of XP though most applications won't take advantage of them all yet.

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/multicore.mspx
Right, it won't recognize all 4 gigs of RAM. That's what I was saying.

IIRC, Microsoft allows you to have a dual core processor using XP Pro, but when you go for a quad core processor, you need two lisences.

It doesn't really explain it well, but the fine print is kind of there;
Multicore Processor Summary Diagram

Customer B has a system with a single processor with two processor cores. As in the example with Customer A, only one server software license is required per processor.

Dual-Core Processor System—Customer C
Multicore Processor Summary Diagram

Customer C has a system with two processors, and each processor has two processor cores. One server software license would be required per processor.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
401
NC
So I just tried rendering some HDR out of .raw in Photomatix on my GF's laptop (Intel Centrino something something with 1 gig of RAM). :twitch:

I'm honestly on the verge of going to the Apple store in the next 20 minutes.
You, uh, rendered a RAW file on a single core laptop PC and have used that as the basis for your decision to move to Apple? Genius! :D
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
401
NC
IIRC, Microsoft allows you to have a dual core processor using XP Pro, but when you go for a quad core processor, you need two lisences.
That's not correct. XP Pro supports two physical processors regardless of the number of cores. XP Home supports one physical processor, again, regardless of the number of cores. They're licensed per-installation. How do you think you'd even add another license to a copy of XP to support the extra cores? Buy another license and do... what with it?
 

drakan

Monkey
Feb 27, 2007
263
0
Virginia, USA
I really can't remember. I just remember reading something about how XP Home can only support one core (or processor), and XP Pro can only support two cores (or processors).
Maybe they've patched it since I read that, but that's what I remember. Something about how task manager can only manage two processors (cores)...

Anyway, regardless, you're still not going to be able to see all the RAM you put into it.
 

drakan

Monkey
Feb 27, 2007
263
0
Virginia, USA
I know.
What I am saying is; the two were used as the same term.
Meaning as a dual core processor, it would be recognized as two processors, two sockets, not one socket, two cores.
 

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,978
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
So I just tried rendering some HDR out of .raw in Photomatix on my GF's laptop (Intel Centrino something something with 1 gig of RAM). :twitch:

I'm honestly on the verge of going to the Apple store in the next 20 minutes.
My daughter is loving her mac mini. She's used kid pix to make pictures, turn them into a book, and learned to use it as a dvd player, and learned how to use the text to voice feature to help her check what she's typing.

She is six.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
You, uh, rendered a RAW file on a single core laptop PC and have used that as the basis for your decision to move to Apple? Genius! :D
Oohhhh no no no, I was just implying I was going to go make an impulse purchase because of the slowness of this machine :)

My daughter is loving her mac mini. She's used kid pix to make pictures, turn them into a book, and learned to use it as a dvd player, and learned how to use the text to voice feature to help her check what she's typing.

She is six.
I installed Windows 3.0 when I was five. Too bad that didn't carry over to later on in life. :think:

The Mini would interest me if it weren't for the painfully slow and small hard drives they spec with them.

Aaanyway...So I went down to the Apple store, half thinking I'd buy an iMac because I was pissy and feeling impulsey. Having not played with the latest gen I jumped on one and started screwing with Photoshop in an attempt to make it bog down and die (This was a 2.4ghz 2gb RAM machine). I did it, quite successfully. It started having issues when I tried to photomerge 4 different 800kish pictures, and following that had trouble searching for files when I was opening them in PS. Needless to say I was fairly underwhelmed. Not to mention the Apple store people were pretty clueless when I started talking about batch processing.

So XP does not use 4 gigs in apps and can't utilize a Core 2 Quad CPU?
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
On that price range looks like a TN panel.

If you're into image processing get a SPVA or SIPS panel! ;)
This is the monitor I'm considering:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005096

Display
Screen Size 20"
Widescreen Yes
Maximum Resolution 1680 x 1050
Recommended Resolution 1680 x 1050
Viewing Angle 170°(H) / 170°(V)
Pixel Pitch 0.294mm
Display Colors 16.2 Million
Brightness 300 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio 3000:1
Response Time 2ms
Display Type WSXGA+

Reviews say it actually comes with 5000:1 contrast instead of 3000...
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
All right...more and more thinking has led me to this: The processor in the iMac I can afford is just too damned slow. Hence, I shall be going with a PC, as soon as the 8800GT is released onto the market.

Specs:

-COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

-Rosewill RP550V2-S-SL 550W SLI Ready-ATX12V V2.01 Power Supply - Retail

- LG L206WTY-BF Black 20" 2ms DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor W/ f-Engine and Tilt Adjustment - Retail

- GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

- Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6750 - Retail

- A-DATA 4GB (4 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model ADQVE1A16K - Retail

- Logitech 967557-0403 Silver/Black USB + PS/2 RF Wireless Slim Cordless Desktop S 510 Mouse Included - Retail

And a DVD burner, WD 76gb Raptor, Seagate 250gb SATA 7200.

Aaaand, when it comes out, an nVidia GeForce 8800GT. All in the ~$1250 range. Not bad.

So...4gb of cRAMmage...yay or nay?

I've selected all the parts with both performance and OS X compatibility in mind. It looks like this could be a Hackintosh. Once I get it going under XP, it will be the first thing on my "to-do" list. If OS X fails, then I will be installing Ubuntu in a dual-boot setup.

Is it me or is hardware super-cheap right now? Storage costs next to nothing...This is a complete machine (sans OS)with monitor that can tear the limbs off of 90% of everything out there for under $1300. WTF mate?
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
401
NC
What I am saying is; the two were used as the same term.
Meaning as a dual core processor, it would be recognized as two processors, two sockets, not one socket, two cores.
Doesn't matter how it was used. The OS distinguishes between an extra socket and an extra core. Microsoft's documentation reflects that.

Blue; XP 32-bit will not recognize all of that RAM. It tops off at just under 3.5gb. Just FYI - you need the 64-bit version or Vista for that much memory.

Also, I highly doubt you actually need 550w worth of power supply. If you picked something up closer to 400w you'll end up running it much more efficiently. Just a thought, the 550w will run fine though. One more idea: I'm now very enamored of the idea that my computer doesn't have to be a noisy wind tunnel. Lots of quiet components out there. Especially if the computer exists somewhere that you live in a lot, you could have a virtually silent PC for ~$50-100 more (swapped PSU, big heatsink and a quiet fan).
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
401
NC

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
31,567
2,540
I'm really wanting a new iMac, but I'm broke, and rethinking building a PC. How bad is Vista when it comes to being a piece of bloated Microsoft sh!t? Say good things...please.
think EIP engine
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
E.g. this power supply:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151033

This heat sink:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185038

And this fan:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185004

Total $142.97, minus $59.99 on that other PSU and you've got $82.98 and an extremely quiet PC, yet a heatsink/fan that will cool a pretty decent overclock. A fan swap and it'd cool any overclock you like.
I actually added 2 120mm fans but didn't list them...One will replace the blue neon sh!t at the front of the case, and I was going to place another on the side. Thinking hard about a CPU cooler...I will OC it at some point, I guess these chips love to be brutalized? 90$ for a 400w PSU...I dunno...How quiet is quiet? Is it just 'cause of the 120mm fan? There's a Fotron for 30$ less...

I will be surgically extracting the "COOLER MASTAR" logo off the front of the case as soon as UPS drops it off, btw.

More editing:
64-bit Windows is as bad to run as Vista, yeah? Leeehm. Maybe I'll just pop in three gigs and if I need it, get a fourth stick. I assume OSX and Ubuntu can use it all...but I won't be using Ubuntu for anything RAM-heavy (GIMP, ohh you guys crack me up ;))
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
401
NC
I actually added 2 120mm fans but didn't list them...One will replace the blue neon sh!t at the front of the case, and I was going to place another on the side. Thinking hard about a CPU cooler...I will OC it at some point, I guess these chips love to be brutalized? That PSU is $93, btw :think:
That PSU is one of the most highly rated, efficient and ultra quiet power supplies on the market :p

Also, that CPU cooler is excellent and is among the top one or two coolers available now. That allows you to both make it quiet, or make it super cooling. The stock cooler is going to be noisy.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
401
NC
blue said:
64-bit Windows is as bad to run as Vista, yeah?
Um. What?

As long as you have 64 bit drivers for everything, it'll be fine, and since you're putting together a new computer I don't see why there wouldn't be new 64 bit drivers for it all.

Given that the power supply is about the only component in your case where failure can lead to complete destruction of the rest of your hardware... I never have a problem spending an extra $30 on it. Which is all you're doing here, especially considering the efficiency and wattage ratings on the Seasonic are very accurate, vs. the exaggerated ratings and inefficiency of a lot of others (I don't know about that particular Rosewill, just in general) so you're likely not getting a full 550w out of it anyway.

You should stick with 2 sticks of RAM, regardless of how much you put in there. It will run in dual channel mode which will be a ton faster.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Given that the power supply is about the only component in your case where failure can lead to complete destruction of the rest of your hardware... I never have a problem spending an extra $30 on it. Which is all you're doing here, especially considering the efficiency and wattage ratings on the Seasonic are very accurate, vs. the exaggerated ratings and inefficiency of a lot of others (I don't know about that particular Rosewill, just in general) so you're likely not getting a full 550w out of it anyway.
Rosewill 550W, last place in roundup (edit: not the same version blue selected but still):

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/atx-psu7_28.html#sect0

This Antec case has a decent PSU if blue doesn't want to spend extra...
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
Um. What?

As long as you have 64 bit drivers for everything, it'll be fine, and since you're putting together a new computer I don't see why there wouldn't be new 64 bit drivers for it all.

Given that the power supply is about the only component in your case where failure can lead to complete destruction of the rest of your hardware... I never have a problem spending an extra $30 on it. Which is all you're doing here, especially considering the efficiency and wattage ratings on the Seasonic are very accurate, vs. the exaggerated ratings and inefficiency of a lot of others (I don't know about that particular Rosewill, just in general) so you're likely not getting a full 550w out of it anyway.

You should stick with 2 sticks of RAM, regardless of how much you put in there. It will run in dual channel mode which will be a ton faster.
Moooof...okay, I've got the PSU you recommended. I will be running a $25 MSI 7300GS until the 8800GT is released en masse.