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Vitox and other suspension geeks..need help

kidwoo

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I've got 2 fox vanilla DH shocks. One has the hose length I desire, the other doesn't. I called fox and they won't supply the longer hose, but they will rebuild it if I send in a longer hose for them to use.

Question 1: where would be a good place to find the suitable high pressure hydraulic line?

Question 2: Vitox, you're the only one I know of outside of fox who has rebuilt their own shocks, how difficult is it to get the fluid level right and how do you do this? I'm assuming I can depressurize the system, move the shaft into full compression and put the cap back on, letting some fluid bleed out as I reattach and this should be correct. Any thoughts?

Question 3: What type of suspension fluid should I use?

Thanks.
 

kidwoo

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Brian HCM#1 said:
Would an Avalanche hose work?
Good question.

Do you have one or can you get them?

I need to take mine apart to get the exact hose dimensions that are used on it obviously but I need to be confident I can put the thing back together first.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,669
114
Bay Area, California
kidwoo said:
Good question.

Do you have one or can you get them?

I need to take mine apart to get the exact hose dimensions that are used on it obviously but I need to be confident I can put the thing back together first.
I probably could. How long? I had Craig replace my old one with the newer style with stainless steel fittings. I should have told him to send me my old hose back.
 

Bati

Monkey
May 8, 2003
354
0
Santiago - Chile
kidwoo said:
.... how difficult is it to get the fluid level right and how do you do this? I'm assuming I can depressurize the system, move the shaft into full compression and put the cap back on, letting some fluid bleed out as I reattach and this should be correct. Any thoughts?
Thanks.
1.- Depressurize the system.
2.- Take the main body nut out.
3.- Pressurize the system, just a little to expand the air chamber completely, and then despressurize.
4.- Fill the shock body with 5W oil.
5.- Insert the tip of shaft (valve) onto the body, just avobe the thread.
6.- Screw the main nut onto the body, being carefully of no air leaves into the body.

If you can do 5 and 6 completely submerged in oil, is easier to leave no air inside. To ensure the hose is full, put the shaft up and compress it, then put the body up and pull it. Do this repeatedly and repeat 4, 5 and 6

7.- Pressurize at 150 PSI

kidwoo said:
Question 3: What type of suspension fluid should I use?
Commonly I use Bel Ray HVI 5W.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
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South Seattle
Any good quality hydraulic line should work. You can get these in standard lengths from an industrial supply catalog such as McMaster. Or, you could go to a local hydro shop and have them make you one. Call around, lots of heavy machinery uses the same lines including snowplows.
 

kidwoo

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I'm still not sure how to fill the system making sure the hose and remote reservoir have no air in them.

Bati: Thanks for the run down. Sounds like you've done the regular vanilla rc shocks before.
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
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kidwoo said:
I'm still not sure how to fill the system making sure the hose and remote reservoir have no air in them.

Bati: Thanks for the run down. Sounds like you've done the regular vanilla rc shocks before.

yea he has done that way more times than i have, he`s the sort of guy that will open up his shock just because he has 37 minutes to spare and thought his maybe rebound might have been a bit slow last time he rode it.
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
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buildyourown said:
Any good quality hydraulic line should work. You can get these in standard lengths from an industrial supply catalog such as McMaster. Or, you could go to a local hydro shop and have them make you one. Call around, lots of heavy machinery uses the same lines including snowplows.

i know avy and jefe hoses are interchangeble, so you could just start with giving craig a call, might save you some time.
 

kidwoo

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vitox said:
yea he has done that way more times than i have, he`s the sort of guy that will open up his shock just because he has 37 minutes to spare and thought his maybe rebound might have been a bit slow last time he rode it.
Right on. My kind of tinkerer.

I guess if I screw up, I can just send in the pieces and get fox to rebuild it.

Brian: I need a hose that's at least 10 inches. (Don't we all).
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
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kidwoo said:
I'm still not sure how to fill the system making sure the hose and remote reservoir have no air in them.

once you have connected all the parts you will have to pump the reservoir up, fill with oil, deflate, and repeat until you see no bubbles coming out, that SHOULD work but without knowing if your shock has a bladder or piston in there its hard to know, anyway its not that hard once you have it all on your workspace im sure youll have no problems figuring out a way to get it bled properly.
 

kidwoo

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vitox said:
once you have connected all the parts you will have to pump the reservoir up, fill with oil, deflate, and repeat until you see no bubbles coming out, that SHOULD work but without knowing if your shock has a bladder or piston in there its hard to know, anyway its not that hard once you have it all on your workspace im sure youll have no problems figuring out a way to get it bled properly.
It has the AVA chamber for a reservoir so I was assuming it was a piston.

I'm thinking I need to know the exact inside diameter of the hose to keep the damping consistent with the intended feel. The hose if too small could act as its own damper.

I'll see what I can find this week. Thanks for the help.
 

Bati

Monkey
May 8, 2003
354
0
Santiago - Chile
vitox said:
once you have connected all the parts you will have to pump the reservoir up, fill with oil, deflate, and repeat until you see no bubbles coming out, that SHOULD work but without knowing if your shock has a bladder or piston in there its hard to know, anyway its not that hard once you have it all on your workspace im sure youll have no problems figuring out a way to get it bled properly.
To ensure the hose is full, put the shaft up and compress it, then put the body up and pull it. Do this repeatedly and repeat 4, 5 and 6


Asi se hace pos !!
 

Bati

Monkey
May 8, 2003
354
0
Santiago - Chile
kidwoo said:
It has the AVA chamber for a reservoir so I was assuming it was a piston.

I'm thinking I need to know the exact inside diameter of the hose to keep the damping consistent with the intended feel. The hose if too small could act as its own damper.

I'll see what I can find this week. Thanks for the help.
Remote Avy reservoirs uses bladder and any hose should be wider inside than the narrower space in compression valve.
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
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ah you mean your afraid that the hose will be the tightest place for the oil to flow?
good call, although i doubt fox made any custom hose for their shock.

what i can tell you is that the wrench flats on an avy hose are 11mm and that the thread is 10mm
 

kidwoo

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Bati said:
Remote Avy reservoirs uses bladder and any hose should be wider inside than the narrower space in compression valve.
I think this is different from the avalanche resevoir though. It has an adjustable air volume chamber that I think would be more difficult to make with a bladder. I could be wrong.

I'm just going to pull it apart and see what I can find out. I've got three shocks for this bike so I'm not too worried. :p
 

Bati

Monkey
May 8, 2003
354
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Santiago - Chile
kidwoo said:
I think this is different from the avalanche resevoir though. It has an adjustable air volume chamber that I think would be more difficult to make with a bladder. I could be wrong.

I'm just going to pull it apart and see what I can find out. I've got three shocks for this bike so I'm not too worried. :p
haha, you said AVA, not AVY, hahah
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
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Roanoke, VA
Bati, in a pinch i've just packed the bottom of the seal block with some slick honey to get the air out of the build. It has worked OK for me, and is easier than finding a bucket when you are in a remote parking lot. WOO-DOG, email Mojo, they will know what the exact specs of the hose are.
 

kidwoo

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bizutch said:
how come oyu just don't pay for the basic tune from Push? by the time materials are purchased, you're not saving any money?

I don't need a tune, I just need a hose. The shock works perfectly and I don't want to change anything about it. I called push to see if they could just do the hose and they said they don't have the tools to work on this shock anyway.

You ever seen one of these things? They have different mounting hardware, larger shaft than anything fox has ever made......they really are thier own beast.
 

kidwoo

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SuspectDevice said:
Bati, in a pinch i've just packed the bottom of the seal block with some slick honey to get the air out of the build. .
Aren't you scared of getting grease in your damper fluid? I would think that might be a problem.


SuspectDevice said:
WOO-DOG, email Mojo, they will know what the exact specs of the hose are.
Whoohoo! Thanks.
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
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kidwoo said:
I don't need a tune, I just need a hose. The shock works perfectly and I don't want to change anything about it. I called push to see if they could just do the hose and they said they don't have the tools to work on this shock anyway.

You ever seen one of these things? They have different mounting hardware, larger shaft than anything fox has ever made......they really are thier own beast.
have no idea. did you buy an old Maxxis team one from a few years back? that's the only one I've seen other than the remote DHX on my DHR.
 

kidwoo

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bizutch said:
have no idea. did you buy an old Maxxis team one from a few years back? that's the only one I've seen other than the remote DHX on my DHR.
I've got one from an intense m1 and another from the KHS team. There were some team ones (marla streb used to use one on her v10), some were stock for one of the konas and some came on a few intenses.
 

Bati

Monkey
May 8, 2003
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Santiago - Chile
SuspectDevice said:
Bati, in a pinch i've just packed the bottom of the seal block with some slick honey to get the air out of the build. It has worked OK for me, and is easier than finding a bucket when you are in a remote parking lot.
Hmmmm, it shouldn't be a BIG problem. Grease have different kind of "soap" to get its consistency, but the its viscosity use to be about 5~10W... I've never tried it, but i will.

A good trick is to put the body inside a plastic bag and tighten the bag to the body with rubber bands, then fill with oil over the body border, and you will work completely under oil.
 

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Jeremy R

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Nov 15, 2001
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Bati said:
Hmmmm, it shouldn't be a BIG problem. Grease have different kind of "soap" to get its consistency, but the its viscosity use to be about 5~10W... I've never tried it, but i will.

A good trick is to put the body inside a plastic bag and tighten the bag to the body with rubber bands, then fill with oil over the body border, and you will work completely under oil.

Why is that Fraggle hiding behind that shock body?
 

kidwoo

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MisterMental said:
if you used a hose with a bigger ID then would it work better?
I'm assuming the hose used is like bati and vitox eluded to, at least as large as the smallest orifice in the fittings. Going larger would have no effect since the limiting orifice is still the fittings. Going smaller might make the hose the smallest orifice and hence slow the oil (ie: act like an additional damper). Bigger shouldn't change anything since the total volume of oil displaced is still that of the shaft.